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Thread: Do you think our scripture are fake?

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    Do you think our scripture are fake?

    Namaste HDF,

    Lets take the example of Ekadasi fasting described in Bhagvata Purana

    The merit obtained by performing one hundred horse sacrifices and one hundred Rajasurya sacrifices is not even equal to one sixteenth of the merit a devotee is able to attain by fasting on EkAdasii. There is no higher merit one can achieve than that attained by fasting on EkAdasii. Indeed, nothing in all the three worlds is as pleasing or as able to purify one of accumulated sin as EkAdasii, the day of the lotus-naveled Lord, Padmanabha.

    If what ever said above is true word by word, then fasting on Ekadashi alone should get us liberated from our accumulated SIN. We should be blissful thereafter.

    Each Ekadasi is associated with a narration of a devotee getting all the riches of three worlds.

    Similarly any manthra parayanam (Sundara Kaandam or Bhagavata Gita or Nrsimha Kavacham or any other revered text) done for a prescribed number of times results in all the riches of three worlds be showered to the devotee.

    If there is method to get rid of our SIN and be free from all kinds future hardship when why dont we hear just ONE success story about it?

    One may say sufferings are due to accumulated Karma. If that be the case Shree Krishna is lying or Bhagavatha Puranam is fake or we don't know the procedure to do Parayanam / fasting.

    I have not raised this question to become filthy rich or become a God Realized person, but genuinely interested to know whether the content of Bhagavata Puranam or any of scripture is not a fairy tales.

    This question is only to those who believe that our scriptures are facts and not fabricated self flattering stories.
    Anirudh...

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    Re: Do you think our scripture are fake?

    Namaste Anirudh,

    The Hindu scriptures are designed to cater to need of different people who are at varying stage of spirituality.

    Let me tell you something :

    ===> Some scriptures say that just by taking a dip in river Ganga one gets free from all sins. Now, if this is literally true, then we get a license to do as much sins as there can be and then at the end of life take just one dip in GangA and get rid of whatever sins we accumulated ! I find this similar to what some Christians say: "Just accept Jesus as your saviour and you will be free from all sins". So, a Christian can keep committing most heinous crimes in his/her life and accept Jesus at the end of the life and that would get him free from all sins !

    This are many such instruments which claim to absolve you from all sins by doing just one act of this or that or whatever. I don't find all this palatable. We need to understand or try to interpret these provisions in right earnest.

    In my humble opinion, either these scriptures are not written by AdhikAri people or there is some different meaning to all this. May be it means that you will eventually get free from all sins and there is no time-frame given. If this is the meaning it is OK. As even a simple act of some good work can generate a seed of good Karma even in the greatest sinner and the effect of that Karma can finally lead him to salvation.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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    Re: Do you think our scripture are fake?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anirudh View Post
    If there is method to get rid of our SIN and be free from all kinds future hardship when why dont we hear just ONE success story about it?
    Namaste Anirudh ji,

    It may be of interest to you to read some of the reviews written by those who consulted jyotishi Shri AMR (of Kumudam Jyotidam) who had very severe problems in their life, which were alleviated out of doing pariharas given by this talented and extremely devout jyotishi. I have noticed Shri AMR 'tailors' his pariharas to the needs of the particular client and says sometimes things like, "Worship EMBAR ONLY, as no other parihara will bear fruit!". So as you see, there are particular deities to be worshiped with particular/specific means of worship for as much as it takes to get rid of one's negative karma that has manifested in the form of a suffering.

    To my knowledge, all pariharas and prarthanas work but they take time, because our accumulated karma to cause a suffering is THAT LARGE. When you are enormously hungry, eating one banana will not alleviate the hunger pangs, similarly when fruits of karma are enormous, it takes prolonged effort as much as it is needed to alleviate the cause. AND, most notably, not all karma can be redeemed. Some karma are meant to be suffered.

    Yes, it is said, when we take a dip in Ganges, all our dushkarma vanishes. But, in practicality, when all our dushkarma vanishes how changed we must feel! Is it possible to achieve this much changed state of being and having an altered consciousness with taking just 1 dip in Ganga? BUT, the merit will be there, it will come back to us in a different form.

    It took one Narayanan Namboodari 100 cantos of his work Narayaneeyam to get rid of his ailment. It took an Abirama Bhattar 79 verses standing over fire for mother Abirami to change it to a full Moon day. These are profoundly emerged saints and for them itself, it did not just suffice to say "Hey Lord! Please help me get rid of my pain and suffering!". They had to do their work. Which is to show to mankind that to alleviate one's karma, one has to do necessary work for as long as it needs to alleviate it.

    When we do other meritorious deeds without working on alleviating our problem, that good karma will surely add up. It will be given back to us in a different way.

    These are my opinions.

    Thanks & Regards,

    Viraja
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

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    Re: Do you think our scripture are fake?

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    Namaste Anirudh,

    The Hindu scriptures are designed to cater to need of different people who are at varying stage of spirituality.

    In my humble opinion, either these scriptures are not written by AdhikAri people or there is some different meaning to all this.

    OM
    Thank you Devotee ji.

    I agree with you to an extent but can we not extrapolate to every scripture.

    How can we claim that Veda or Bagavath Gita is from authoritative source? Even in BG, we find similar proclamations.

    Before creating this thread I got reminded of two quotes.

    #1. Believe in what you do not see, the reward pf which is you ll see what you believed.

    #2. To know the unknown start from the unknown.

    I am not making a wishful thinking here, isn't it a possibility that our ignorance / limitted knowledge / "I know attitude" does not allow us to believe these scriptures. And hence we never truly tried it out?

    I am not a learned person so won't claim authoritatively. Nevertheless certain events that occurred very recently in my life are solving up many unsolved puzzles. I dont know why?

    I request you to experiment with the above two pointers (#1 & #2)
    Anirudh...

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    Re: Do you think our scripture are fake?

    Namaste Viraja ji,

    I understood your perspective. But it is either contradictory to assertions made by our saints or we don't trust our saints and god or we simply don't know.

    Don't you think our Agamas should be thrown into dustbin because we don't believe them. If I say this to a Archagar in Thirumala before he start Abhishekam what will he do? Won't he thrash me?

    I have got so many things to tell you, but couldn't. In a couple of days will PM you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Viraja View Post
    Namaste Anirudh ji,

    It may be of interest to you to read some of the reviews written by those who consulted jyotishi Shri AMR (of Kumudam Jyotidam) who had very severe problems in their life, which were alleviated out of doing pariharas given by this talented and extremely devout jyotishi. I have noticed Shri AMR 'tailors' his pariharas to the needs of the particular client and says sometimes things like, "Worship EMBAR ONLY, as no other parihara will bear fruit!". So as you see, there are particular deities to be worshiped with particular/specific means of worship for as much as it takes to get rid of one's negative karma that has manifested in the form of a suffering.

    To my knowledge, all pariharas and prarthanas work but they take time, because our accumulated karma to cause a suffering is THAT LARGE. When you are enormously hungry, eating one banana will not alleviate the hunger pangs, similarly when fruits of karma are enormous, it takes prolonged effort as much as it is needed to alleviate the cause. AND, most notably, not all karma can be redeemed. Some karma are meant to be suffered.

    Yes, it is said, when we take a dip in Ganges, all our dushkarma vanishes. But, in practicality, when all our dushkarma vanishes how changed we must feel! Is it possible to achieve this much changed state of being and having an altered consciousness with taking just 1 dip in Ganga? BUT, the merit will be there, it will come back to us in a different form.

    It took one Narayanan Namboodari 100 cantos of his work Narayaneeyam to get rid of his ailment. It took an Abirama Bhattar 79 verses standing over fire for mother Abirami to change it to a full Moon day. These are profoundly emerged saints and for them itself, it did not just suffice to say "Hey Lord! Please help me get rid of my pain and suffering!". They had to do their work. Which is to show to mankind that to alleviate one's karma, one has to do necessary work for as long as it needs to alleviate it.

    When we do other meritorious deeds without working on alleviating our problem, that good karma will surely add up. It will be given back to us in a different way.

    These are my opinions.

    Thanks & Regards,

    Viraja
    Anirudh...

  6. #6

    Re: Do you think our scripture are fake?

    Namaste.

    From Sri Ramakrishna's Kathamrita:

    "Bijoy: If that be the case, Bhagavan, then how did Ajâmila, who was the greatest of sinners and committed all sorts of crimes, obtain salvation by repeating the Name of the Lord at the time of his death?

    Râmakrishna: Perhaps in his previous incarnations Ajâmila was righteous and performed a great many good deeds. Besides, it is said that he practised asceticism later in this life. It may also be said that at the last moment of his life the repetition of the Holy Name purified his heart and therefore he attained salvation. When an elephant is washed, immediately he throws dust and dirt over himself; but if he is kept in a clean stall after his bath, then he cannot cover himself with dirt. By the power of the Holy Name a man may be purified, but he may once more commit sinful acts because his mind is weak. He cannot promise that he will never sin again. The water of the Ganges may wash away past sins, but there is a saying that sins perch on the top of trees. When a man comes out of the Ganges and stands under a tree, the sins drop over his shoulders and seize upon him; these old sins ride him, as it were. Therefore, repeat the Holy Name of the Lord, but at the same time pray to Him that you may have true love and devotion for Him, and that your love for wealth, fame and the pleasures of the body may decrease because they are transitory, they last only until to-morrow."


    Pranams.

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    Re: Do you think our scripture are fake?

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~
    namasté

    to perform an action of merit , a right action ( yama and niyama) , in return for some benefit is no different then being coin operated.

    iti śivaṁ
    Last edited by yajvan; 01 October 2014 at 02:30 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Do you think our scripture are fake?

    These type of statements are called arthavada. They are meant to entice and tempt people to take up spiritual practices and are not to be taken literally, as per our acharyas.
    namastE astu bhagavan vishveshvarAya mahAdevAya tryaMbakAya|
    tripurAntakAya trikAgnikAlAya kAlAgnirudrAya nIlakaNThAya mRtyuJNjayAya sarveshvarAya sadAshivAya shrIman mAhAdevAya ||

    Om shrImAtrE namah

    sarvam shrI umA-mahEshwara parabrahmArpaNamastu


    A Shaivite library
    http://www.scribd.com/HinduismLibrary

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    Re: Do you think our scripture are fake?

    Namaste Yajvan ji, Ekam ji and Omkara ji

    Thank you very much for sharing those valuable points.

    I am meditating upon the views.

    For eg, after reading Yajvan, Viraja's reply can be seen from different angle.

    If we relate Ekam's reply with Indra Deva's intention in sending celestial nymph(s) to disturb the penance, we get a new meaning.

    Our scriptures can be anything but fake fairy tales. It offers the necessary ammunition to cross the dangerous journey.

    The destination is Shreeman Naaraayan's lotus feet. The journey is Samsara (worldly life). Danger is the different kinds of bondage that lures and halt our journey.

    It took almost an year to free Shree Sita Maatha from Raavana or it 14 years before the onset of Raama Raajya. But it took only few seconds for Vibishana to surrender. All he needed was the conviction and determination to quit the Evil.
    Anirudh...

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    Re: Do you think our scripture are fake?

    Namaste Anirudh

    Any kind of religious act enjoined in the scriptures will reap the full reward only if performed with proper meditation and knowledge, and renunciation from sensuality.
    We learn about that from the Manu-smriti 2.97 and 100:
    http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/manu/manu02.htm

    97. Neither (the study of) the Vedas, nor liberality, nor sacrifices, nor any (self-imposed) restraint, nor austerities, ever procure the attainment (of rewards) to a man whose heart is contaminated (by sensuality).

    100. If he keeps all the (ten) organs as well as the mind in subjection, he may gain all his aims

    See also Manu-smriti 6.80-82:
    http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/manu/manu06.htm

    80. When by the disposition (of his heart) he becomes indifferent to all objects, he obtains eternal happiness both in this world and after death.

    81. He who has in this manner gradually given up all attachments and is freed from all the pairs (of opposites), reposes in Brahman alone.

    82. All that has been declared (above) depends on meditation; for he who is not proficient in the knowledge of that which refers to the Soul reaps not the full reward of the performance of rites.

    See what Manu says on renunciation from sensuality.
    In 2.97 he says that whatever a man do (the study of the Vedas, liberality, sacrifices, restraint, austerities) if he is addicted to sensuality he will not procure the attainment of rewards.
    Further in verse 2.100 he repeated this very clearly: "If he keeps all the (ten) organs as well as the mind in subjection, he may gain all his aims".
    The same he repeated in 6.80 "When by the disposition (of his heart) he becomes indifferent to all objects ...", and 6.81 "He who has in this manner gradually given up all attachments ...".
    Subjugation of the mind and the ten organs (senses), to become indifferent to all objects (to not find delight in them), and to give up all attachments to mundane matters, all this makes something that we call "renunciation", ie the renunciation from sensuality, or you can call it renunciation from this world.

    Pay special attention to verse 6.82: A man will reap the full reward of the performance of rites (any rite or religious act) only if he properly meditates while performing the rite, ie only if he makes the rite with the proper state of mind, and if he is proficient in the knowledge of that which refers to the Soul.
    All this means that a person who is not properly mentally concentrated on the rite, who is still attached to sense enjoyment (sensuality), and who does not know science of the soul very well, will not reap the full reward of the performance of rites (any rite or religious act)!

    Here's another example from the Bhagavad gita 6.45:

    "And when the yogi engages himself with sincere endeavor in making further progress, being washed of all contaminations, then ultimately, achieving perfection after many, many births of practice, he attains the supreme goal."

    Some yogi may think, "I've studied the Vedas, mastered yoga, but still have not achieved perfection, how so?" The Lord is giving the answer. Progress is gradual and the fruit will ripen gradually and will come when the time comes: "achieving perfection after many, many births of practice, he attains the supreme goal."



    regards

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