Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 13

Thread: Bharathvarsh, Sanaatana Dharma and Slavery

  1. #1
    Join Date
    October 2012
    Location
    Bhaarath
    Age
    44
    Posts
    1,088
    Rep Power
    1471

    Bharathvarsh, Sanaatana Dharma and Slavery

    Namaste

    This question has nothing to do with Manu Neethi because the rules for people belonging to different Varna weren't strictly followed leading to exploitation and abusing the rules.

    I am not interested to discuss about the degradation of Hindu ethical conducts because that's a deviation from the prescribed rules. Again it is do with implementation flaws

    In the gambling between Duryodhana and Yudishter, they seemed to have used their slaves as bets besides their brothers and spouses.

    Even in the Sathya Harichandra story we find human slavery is common during then.

    So what is our scriptures position on Human slaves? Did it support Human slavery? Did we had sex slaves, supported by our scriptures?

    What is the exact meaning of Daas or Daasi in the context of human slavery.
    Last edited by Anirudh; 12 October 2014 at 06:09 PM.
    Anirudh...

  2. #2

    Re: Bharathvarsh, Sanaatana Dharma and Slavery

    Namaste,
    Quote Originally Posted by Anirudh View Post
    Namaste

    This question has nothing to do with Manu Neethi because the rules for people belonging to different Varna weren't strictly followed leading to exploitation and abusing the rules.
    No need to be afraid of Manu smriti, if read in the correct context.

    So what is our scriptures position on Human slaves? Did it support Human slavery? Did we had sex slaves, supported by our scriptures?
    Yes, and No.

    What is the exact meaning of Daas or Daasi in the context of human slavery.
    There are basically two classes: Arya and Dasyu.
    Dasyu is the original state. That is, those people who were not "trained" into Arya fold were considered Dasyu. Even the as born state of a child was considered that of Dasyu until Sacred Thread ceremony was performed which implied a formal entry into the Rsis' Varna-Ashrama training.

    Even in the Satyuga, Arya-s were greatly outflanked by the Dasyu. Let us understand it in yet another way:--

    Vedic culture was an innovation of the time (and perhaps the single most important innovation of all time), so the tribe who found this way suddenly transformed into the Arya-s.

    But they didnt stop at that, and thought it necessary to bring higher consciousness to all mankind. Thus, by "Dasyu" they meant those people who were yet ignorant of the Vedic ways. So, Dasyu can be a normal, peaceful person (not necessarily terrorist type).

    So, the Arya limits were ever expanding, but at its boundaries there always remained an interface with the Dasyus.

    This "interface" could also be seen as the "buffer people": those who were undergoing the transformation.

    The exact method as to how the Arya-s went about this is not very well documented, but there clearly seem to be more than a few solutions, e.g., war, education, marriage, etc.

    Some of the "buffer people" were called "dAsa" and "dAsi". Dasyu>>Das>>Arya.

    Many of the Arya tribes, who were into the Arya-ways for many generations, protested against this intermingling and "diluting" and parted ways with the mainland Arya-s. This was perhaps near the end of Satyuga.

    In Rama's period, we already see that the Arya-s had given up largely, and the Rsis also were finding it extremely difficult to maintain their Varna-Ashrama-s operating safe along the Arya-boundaries.

    Many Vedic Rsis and Heroes were aware and glad of their Dasyu and Das origins, and had names such as "DivoDasa" etc. That is, "Dasa" itself became an Arya name, in time.



    P.S.: 1. Dasyu males, however, had to likely go through a difficult training before getting accepted into the fold. In the Ashrama, it was the udgAtR priest and position - a representative of the Shudra-Arya-Varna - the force that played key role in the transformative process.
    2. The lesson for me is this: If I am a Dasyu, no amount of victim-playing, terrorism, excuses, manipulation, rape, loot is going to improve me, make me better. Reincarnation and Karma will further ensure that I be damned. And yes, Dharma believes that no two men are born equal; but most important of all, Dharma also knows that potentiality is also infinite within each of us.



    Shri RAm
    Things to remember:

    1. Life = yajña
    2. Depth of Āstika knowledge is directly proportional
    to the richness of Sanskrit it is written in
    3. Āstika = Bhārata ("east") / Ārya ("west")
    4. Varṇa = tripartite division of Vedic polity
    5. r = c. x²
    where,
    r = realisation
    constant c = intelligence
    variable x = bhakti

  3. #3
    Join Date
    October 2012
    Location
    Bhaarath
    Age
    44
    Posts
    1,088
    Rep Power
    1471

    Re: Bharathvarsh, Sanaatana Dharma and Slavery

    Namaste Kalicharan Tuvij

    I am curious to know the source as it will help me to learn more about our History. I wish to know how slaves were treated by theirmasters

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalicharan Tuvij View Post
    Namaste,

    No need to be afraid of Manu smriti, if read in the correct context.


    Yes, and No.


    There are basically two classes: Arya and Dasyu.
    Dasyu is the original state. That is, those people who were not "trained" into Arya fold were considered Dasyu. Even the as born state of a child was considered that of Dasyu until Sacred Thread ceremony was performed which implied a formal entry into the Rsis' Varna-Ashrama training.

    Even in the Satyuga, Arya-s were greatly outflanked by the Dasyu. Let us understand it in yet another way:--

    Vedic culture was an innovation of the time (and perhaps the single most important innovation of all time), so the tribe who found this way suddenly transformed into the Arya-s.

    But they didnt stop at that, and thought it necessary to bring higher consciousness to all mankind. Thus, by "Dasyu" they meant those people who were yet ignorant of the Vedic ways. So, Dasyu can be a normal, peaceful person (not necessarily terrorist type).

    So, the Arya limits were ever expanding, but at its boundaries there always remained an interface with the Dasyus.

    This "interface" could also be seen as the "buffer people": those who were undergoing the transformation.

    The exact method as to how the Arya-s went about this is not very well documented, but there clearly seem to be more than a few solutions, e.g., war, education, marriage, etc.

    Some of the "buffer people" were called "dAsa" and "dAsi". Dasyu>>Das>>Arya.

    Many of the Arya tribes, who were into the Arya-ways for many generations, protested against this intermingling and "diluting" and parted ways with the mainland Arya-s. This was perhaps near the end of Satyuga.

    In Rama's period, we already see that the Arya-s had given up largely, and the Rsis also were finding it extremely difficult to maintain their Varna-Ashrama-s operating safe along the Arya-boundaries.

    Many Vedic Rsis and Heroes were aware and glad of their Dasyu and Das origins, and had names such as "DivoDasa" etc. That is, "Dasa" itself became an Arya name, in time.



    P.S.: 1. Dasyu males, however, had to likely go through a difficult training before getting accepted into the fold. In the Ashrama, it was the udgAtR priest and position - a representative of the Shudra-Arya-Varna - the force that played key role in the transformative process.
    2. The lesson for me is this: If I am a Dasyu, no amount of victim-playing, terrorism, excuses, manipulation, rape, loot is going to improve me, make me better. Reincarnation and Karma will further ensure that I be damned. And yes, Dharma believes that no two men are born equal; but most important of all, Dharma also knows that potentiality is also infinite within each of us.



    Shri RAm
    Anirudh...

  4. #4

    Re: Bharathvarsh, Sanaatana Dharma and Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by Anirudh View Post
    Namaste Kalicharan Tuvij

    I am curious to know the source as it will help me to learn more about our History. I wish to know how slaves were treated by theirmasters
    In this case I don't have to produce my "source" - other than simply stating that the opinion expressed is a very well considered one that takes into account vast data. Let us say my opinion here is a hypothesis and others need to produce evidence in order to reject it.

    I may sound a bit unreasonable, but am not. No Indian has bothered to think about this issue; likely they don't want to - I guess that is because they are busy proclaiming themselves as a backward (in legalised ways), third world (read Dasyu) nation, so that they can be the official suckers of the world - accumulating all the NGO monies as well as Noble awards and other perks.

    In the world of the good and the bad, apparently there is one more way to survive - the ugly. Lagey raho India.


    P.S.: 1) dāsa doesn't mean Shudra. Shudra were a Vedic Varna on par with the other Varna-s.
    2) No children were ever considered dāsa. They were right away taken into Varnashrama-s.
    3) I will recommend the Hollywood movie "Divergent" (release 2014), a good effort (though not entirely successful) into the subject of Varna (yeah, too much to expect from Indian movie maker).
    Things to remember:

    1. Life = yajña
    2. Depth of Āstika knowledge is directly proportional
    to the richness of Sanskrit it is written in
    3. Āstika = Bhārata ("east") / Ārya ("west")
    4. Varṇa = tripartite division of Vedic polity
    5. r = c. x²
    where,
    r = realisation
    constant c = intelligence
    variable x = bhakti

  5. #5
    Join Date
    October 2012
    Location
    Bhaarath
    Age
    44
    Posts
    1,088
    Rep Power
    1471

    Re: Bharathvarsh, Sanaatana Dharma and Slavery

    the world of the good and the bad,apparently there is one more way to survive - the ugly. Lagey raho India.
    Though a bit of truth in your statements, it is very harsh. Especially when it came from you.
    Anirudh...

  6. #6

    Post Re: Bharathvarsh, Sanaatana Dharma and Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalicharan Tuvij View Post
    Namaste,

    No need to be afraid of Manu smriti, if read in the correct context.


    Yes, and No.


    There are basically two classes: Arya and Dasyu.
    Dasyu is the original state. That is, those people who were not "trained" into Arya fold were considered Dasyu. Even the as born state of a child was considered that of Dasyu until Sacred Thread ceremony was performed which implied a formal entry into the Rsis' Varna-Ashrama training.

    Even in the Satyuga, Arya-s were greatly outflanked by the Dasyu. Let us understand it in yet another way:--

    Vedic culture was an innovation of the time (and perhaps the single most important innovation of all time), so the tribe who found this way suddenly transformed into the Arya-s.

    But they didnt stop at that, and thought it necessary to bring higher consciousness to all mankind. Thus, by "Dasyu" they meant those people who were yet ignorant of the Vedic ways. So, Dasyu can be a normal, peaceful person (not necessarily terrorist type).

    So, the Arya limits were ever expanding, but at its boundaries there always remained an interface with the Dasyus.

    This "interface" could also be seen as the "buffer people": those who were undergoing the transformation.

    The exact method as to how the Arya-s went about this is not very well documented, but there clearly seem to be more than a few solutions, e.g., war, education, marriage, etc.

    Some of the "buffer people" were called "dAsa" and "dAsi". Dasyu>>Das>>Arya.

    Many of the Arya tribes, who were into the Arya-ways for many generations, protested against this intermingling and "diluting" and parted ways with the mainland Arya-s. This was perhaps near the end of Satyuga.

    In Rama's period, we already see that the Arya-s had given up largely, and the Rsis also were finding it extremely difficult to maintain their Varna-Ashrama-s operating safe along the Arya-boundaries.

    Many Vedic Rsis and Heroes were aware and glad of their Dasyu and Das origins, and had names such as "DivoDasa" etc. That is, "Dasa" itself became an Arya name, in time.



    P.S.: 1. Dasyu males, however, had to likely go through a difficult training before getting accepted into the fold. In the Ashrama, it was the udgAtR priest and position - a representative of the Shudra-Arya-Varna - the force that played key role in the transformative process.
    2. The lesson for me is this: If I am a Dasyu, no amount of victim-playing, terrorism, excuses, manipulation, rape, loot is going to improve me, make me better. Reincarnation and Karma will further ensure that I be damned. And yes, Dharma believes that no two men are born equal; but most important of all, Dharma also knows that potentiality is also infinite within each of us.



    Shri RAm
    Namaste,

    Glorious Kalicharan, be not hesitant! Remember the Yatudhana-s!

  7. #7

    Re: Bharathvarsh, Sanaatana Dharma and Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by Sudas Paijavana View Post
    Namaste,

    Glorious Kalicharan, be not hesitant! Remember the Yatudhana-s!
    Namaste Sudas,
    Thank you for the encouragement. No, I need it. Desperately.

    As you know there is a variety of the class Dasyu. Yatudhana is one, that is, the aggressive evil.

    Another is the pasu. Yajvan has beautifully put this term to use in one ongoing thread (closed now).

    Oftentimes I too feel like being a pasu: not being able to overcome the barriers. In those depressing times however I do remember to do the yagya, and to burn it all, to start again.

    but there hardly are any like minded Hindus around, and it becomes difficult keep the fire burning bright. You may sometimes feel like waste of time interacting.

    I wonder, how come the average illiterate Hindu is of such wideness that allows all devata-s to reside within it, yet the average literate Hindu that you come across - is more often than not an obsssesive mind full of all embellishments of angrezi.

    But again, it has been a real delight to interact with a few like minded Hindus. May the tribe grow!
    Things to remember:

    1. Life = yajña
    2. Depth of Āstika knowledge is directly proportional
    to the richness of Sanskrit it is written in
    3. Āstika = Bhārata ("east") / Ārya ("west")
    4. Varṇa = tripartite division of Vedic polity
    5. r = c. x²
    where,
    r = realisation
    constant c = intelligence
    variable x = bhakti

  8. #8
    Join Date
    October 2012
    Location
    Bhaarath
    Age
    44
    Posts
    1,088
    Rep Power
    1471

    Re: Bharathvarsh, Sanaatana Dharma and Slavery

    Namaste Sudas ji

    It is been long time no see? Hope everything is fine at your end?

    Namaste Kali Charan ji,

    obsssesive mind full of all embellishments of angrezi.

    Care to explain?
    Anirudh...

  9. #9

    Re: Bharathvarsh, Sanaatana Dharma and Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalicharan Tuvij View Post
    I wonder, how come the average illiterate Hindu is of such wideness that allows all devata-s to reside within it, yet the average literate Hindu that you come across - is more often than not an obsssesive mind full of all embellishments of angrezi.
    Namaste,

    Subject lessons, yaar. Colonial leftovers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anirudh View Post
    Namaste Sudas ji

    It is been long time no see? Hope everything is fine at your end?
    Namaste, Anirudh:

    Yes, everything is fine here. Thank you for asking. How are you doing? I hope all is well with you.

  10. #10

    Re: Bharathvarsh, Sanaatana Dharma and Slavery

    Quote Originally Posted by Anirudh View Post
    Namaste Sudas ji

    It is been long time no see? Hope everything is fine at your end?
    He must have been devoting this time in a devata who everyone says is formless, quality-less, and most importantly , Silent -- hence the no see. The No See mod @HDF

    Quote Originally Posted by Anirudh View Post
    Namaste Kali Charan ji,

    obsssesive mind full of all embellishments of angrezi.

    Care to explain?
    Sudas is "too-the-point" on this, though I believe you had recent interactions with one specimen .

    On a more serious note (ahem),
    The urban centers of India -- because of heavy interactions with various foreign occupiers -- have developed a peculiar brand of Hinduism which is very inimical. That is why I believe in "Village Hindu" to take the lead; unfortunately, however, it is still the urban "Hindu" who hold all reins.

    This "peculiar brand of Hinduism" of "urbanites" has some traits (that come to my mind):--
    Monotheistic traits (Abrahamic), soft lifestyles, soft types of Vedanta, veneration of neo-hinduism such as that of Viekananda et all, angrezi, etc.

    They are not serving India's interest in their workfields. They think lowly of villagers, and mostly keep them ignorant of their deeds by the use of various smokescreens. Finally they settle into foreign lands (god bless those countries. Amen.).

    They have built up a power-structure where you have to become like them in order to be successful. One example is media, where we get to see many journos join coming from humble backgrounds but still continue with the anti-Hindu rant -- in order to be successful in their careers. Now, just think of other more important institutions such as politics, defence, R&D, etc.
    Things to remember:

    1. Life = yajña
    2. Depth of Āstika knowledge is directly proportional
    to the richness of Sanskrit it is written in
    3. Āstika = Bhārata ("east") / Ārya ("west")
    4. Varṇa = tripartite division of Vedic polity
    5. r = c. x²
    where,
    r = realisation
    constant c = intelligence
    variable x = bhakti

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Defending Hindu Dharma against the Onslaught of Adharmic Religions
    By saidevo in forum Abrahamic Religions (Closed For Posting)
    Replies: 119
    Last Post: 17 January 2012, 02:38 PM
  2. Important Message or Lunacy?
    By TatTvamAsi in forum Hot Topics
    Replies: 176
    Last Post: 08 November 2009, 01:34 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •