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Thread: differing views...

  1. #11

    Re: differing views...

    Dear Friends (A Plea From A "Handle"),


    I have become "a handle" ... and the only reason being i presented the advaitic view ... in an open forum. A Philosophy forum is open to all. And so this "handle" thought it can present its view and more interestingly a "handle" has views ... so many would be pleased to see that even inanimate handles have some advaitic views!

    1. Advaita claims that it is the only Truth ... thats why shankara countered the other views.

    2. one should not try to wake up "handles" . People can be woken up !!


    Jokes apart ... I would like to suggest that there is nothing wrong in disagreeing or disagreeing authoritatively.

    This handle is authoritative in what ever it presents, because the handle speaks rtam, well validated statements ... since it knows the kind of effort it has put into it .... it is clear on what it presents.

    THAT SAID, PLEASE NOTE THAT THERE IS NOT A SINGLE HARSH WORD AGAINST ANY PERSON ANYWHERE . Only views exchanged.
    And a forum should give one the liberty to exchange views without being harsh on anyone.

    So i have not deviated from any rule ... and if i have done i would request the forum members to let me know the rule number so that i can make a note !!

    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

  2. #12
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    Re: differing views...

    Namaste,

    People who wants to show supremacy of Dvaita over Advaita and also those who try to show supremacy of Advaita over Dvaita should try to look within instead of fighting for their faith. Both are actually in delusion due to their blinding faith.

    Let only those who are Self-realised should say with finality on the issue of Advaita and only those who have realised God should say with finality on the issue of Dvaita. Unless you have realised the Truth yourself, all your arguments actually are nothing but a show of your arrogance and nothing else. And it is not auspicious for your SAdhnA.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  3. #13

    Re: differing views...

    Dear Devotee ji,


    When Ashtavakra says "dvaita mulam aho dhukkam" ... he is actually rejecting dualistic views.

    Note : rejection of a view is not insulting a person.

    One should not disagree is not the right way of looking at things. One disagrees and yet respects the other person. I disagree someone's views ... but I do not nurture anger against the person !
    Views vary.

    You think differently from me. i think differently from you. And when in a discussion forum, i would out right reject some views as even you would. But then ... if i were to meet you somewhere , we meet with a smile and mutual respect! Because, we know that differences in views need not create anger or enmity.

    Advaita scriptures have purva paksha arguments rejected very solidly. without rejecting those arguments, Advaitic view point is not well established ... so if i have to speak advaita, i too have to reject what is against advaita in principle ... and in doing so i do not insult people ... i reject ideas. Even as , if i say earth is moving around the sun, i am not insulting anyone. i am making an observation.

    ultimately if everyone says the same thing ... what is discussion. "a ball is round", yes "its round", "yes its so round"... "yes its so round from all sides" what is discussion here ??


    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

  4. #14
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    Re: differing views...

    Namaste SS,

    Quote Originally Posted by silence_speaks View Post
    When Ashtavakra says "dvaita mulam aho dhukkam" ... he is actually rejecting dualistic views.
    But Ashtavakra is no authority for those who subscribe to Dualist views. How can you say who is right and who is wrong ?

    Note : rejection of a view is not insulting a person.
    That is what you think. Some people may think otherwise as you are attacking their faith.

    Advaita scriptures have purva paksha arguments rejected very solidly. without rejecting those arguments, Advaitic view point is not well established ... so if i have to speak advaita, i too have to reject what is against advaita in principle ... and in doing so i do not insult people ... i reject ideas. Even as , if i say earth is moving around the sun, i am not insulting anyone. i am making an observation.
    In fact, it is not so easy as it seems. If that was so simple there would not have been so much acrimony among people of different faiths. You can see threads on this forums itself which are full acrimony and discussions with full fledged war of words where ultimately the moderators have to jump in and close the thread.

    I am also an Advaitin practising under a Self-realised Guru. You also are an Advaitin and yet we had discussions wherein we didn't agree with each other. The beauty of the Truth is that the more you get closer to it the more tolerant you become towards other paths/views/faiths and start seeing the point where both may meet eventually as the Reality is the same. Everyone is not at the same spiritual level and everyone doesn't have the same spiritual need --- this has to be understood and respected. I believe that different paths exist because God wants these to exist and we must respect His wish and his design. He is the Controller of the world arising from Him and not I am.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  5. #15

    Re: differing views...

    Dear devotee,
    Namasthe!



    But Ashtavakra is no authority for those who subscribe to Dualist views. How can you say who is right and who is wrong ?
    So you disagree with Ashtavakra ? Should I feel bad now ?

    That is what you think. Some people may think otherwise as you are attacking their faith.
    Now u r attacking my faith ? Since you are disagreeing with my views ?

    Infact every expression of view automatically rejects a 100 other views!

    here is a challenge: Make a religious statement without rejecting any views.

    and if u cannot do that ! Then views will be rejected, no choice there !!

    The beauty of the Truth is that the more you get closer to it the more tolerant you become towards other paths/views/faiths and start seeing the point where both may meet eventually as the Reality is the same.
    If you are following shankara's advaita, you are reading shankara's bhasyam ? Then what does Bhagavad Gita Bhasyam start with ? Karma and jnana both can lead to liberation or karma cannot lead to liberation ? Please ponder!


    Our tolerance is not to views ... our respect is to people... love and respect are for people, not views and ideas !

    Science rejected newton's views ! it has to ... there is no violence in that. But if netwon was kicked out ... that is bad.

    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

  6. #16

    Re: differing views...

    " God is there" ... the atheist feels hurt.
    "God is not there" ... the theist feels hurt.
    "God is there and not there" ... the conformist feels hurt.

    Do you see this ? There is no way one can make a statement without rejecting some views.

    That is why rejecting views is perfectly fine ... because one's compassion should not be for views, it should be for people.

    Compassion for views is misplaced. Identification with views is also a mistake... and when i say this all people who are identified with their views will hate me ??


    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

  7. #17
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    Re: differing views...

    namaste,
    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post

    People who wants to show supremacy of Dvaita over Advaita and also those who try to show supremacy of Advaita over Dvaita should try to look within instead of fighting for their faith. Both are actually in delusion due to their blinding faith.
    OM

    What you say has merit, yet I am of the opinion that the rub comes from the following:
    People who want to show supremacy - the sentence needn't go further. It is the notion of offering ' this is the right way' when no request has been made.
    The greatest teachers look and see where the student is at and take that student from that point and lift them up. They use the knowledge the student has at that time and takes it from there to unfold a higher truth ( as necessary). If you have not experienced this, it is a masterful approach.

    This is the great teacher who can be called a master. Others trip on this point and fall into ' no, no, what you thinking is obtuse to the real final truth - this is the way. Even if that person is speaking the truth it is falling on deaf ears.

    We know the knowledge offered in college is deeper and more robust then that which is found in 1st, 2nd and 3rd grades of grammar school ( as it is called in the west). Why not just deposit those children into those college levels where the higher knowledge resides ? We all know the answer.
    Like that it is the same with one's unfoldment. When one persists on offering the highest knowledge without 'sensing' the absorption rate of the listener, the listener sees the person and the offering as a stone in one's shoe. They see the person coming and can only think of one's mother that wishes to administer a big spoonful of castor oil down one's throat. The child hides or at best pushes back. Like that, of what use will the greatest of teachings be if one is running the other way ? STOP STOP, come back I have the highest amongst the high to teach you .

    Teaching is an art... it can be developed. The teacher finds out over time or with the loss of students, that one cannot start a student who is anchored in arithmetic and offer them calculus. The time in between the two is guided and enriched by patience of the teacher and the willingness of the student to succumb to the teacher. It is therefore the responsibility of the teacher to create the environment for this to unfold with time; or by seeing the confidence the student has with the teacher or the teachings. Note that it takes both sides..
    Anything less and it is time for castor oil .... yes the oil will be good for you, but the reluctance of the student will at best spit it out.
    What good comes from that ?

    iti sivam
    Last edited by yajvan; 29 October 2014 at 09:15 AM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  8. #18

    Re: differing views...

    Dear Yajvan ji,

    The teacher finds out over time or with the loss of students,


    How can one teach on an online forum ?
    We share ideas !
    And every idea someone presents can hurt someone else!

    for example what you just presented ... if i complain that it is "a stone in my shoe" ?

    or may be i complain that there is this:

    "
    It is the notion of offering ' this is the right way' when no request has been made."

    ??

    The point i am making is ...

    1. we are not teaching here.
    2. we are discussing ideas, sharing ideas. not every where do we wait in our discussions for people to "ask us", no one does.
    3. Any idea we present ... there will be some who differ.

    Please see this.

    So we should ideally discuss ideas, and not feel hurt about ideas.
    all the time remaining compassionate and loving towards the people...

    our compassion or love is for people ... never, never for ideas!

    i would not arrogate myself as someone who can gauge someone else's spiritual maturity.

    Ramana used to tell monkeys : U R ATMA.
    Once someone said "what will they understand" and he got angry and said "U R HUMAN, HAVE U UNDERSTOOD"?

    Who are we to gauge someone's spiritual maturity. We share ideas, discuss ideas ... and any idea we share has some other ideas rejected ... that's expected.

    so we should stop worrying that some ideas are dismissed.


    and as regards maturity ... the knowledge takes care of itself ... it reaches when people are matured enough ... we should not worry about it when we discuss... coz we are just sharing ideas, not teaching here.

    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

  9. #19
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    Re: differing views...

    namaste

    To be openly honest, I do not comprehend your post. Yet , please do not infer from what I am saying that I am asking for any clarification, addition or subtraction to the post you have offered.

    Yet that said, you have asked ' how can you teach on line ? '. 'Sharing ideas' your words not mine, are fundamental to teaching. Dialog , ideas back and forth is teaching. Some do this well, others think a bull dozer is needed.

    The art of teaching is the construction of ideas and thoughts shared in such a way that is inspirational and uplifting.
    Some can do this well, and others, not so much.

    iti sivam
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  10. #20
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    Re: differing views...

    Namaste,

    Please continue with this discourse.

    What I find amusing here and in some other posts are the lines like, Ramana used to say....or Ranama used to (do this).....

    Such expressions have the aura of the writer having lived with Ramana, having been at his spiritual level to be on first name basis with him and at the same time having sat cross legged across from him every day listening to him and observing him do things. Did that really happen?

    Pranam.

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