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Thread: Losing Hope

  1. #11

    Re: Losing Hope

    In the spiritual life, we go through up periods and down periods.

    We must continue our spiritual disciplines, even in the dark times.

    If we are losing hope and faith, it is ok to lessen the amount of spiritual discipline, if that lightens the load.

    And, of course, we can focus on physical disciplines that don't test the mind's belief.

    Volunteer work for others is not something that the mind can doubt. If we go to a soup kitchen and hand a meal to a poor person, the mind cannot doubt that experience.

    So, doing concrete spiritual things in a time of doubt can help.

    Specific spiritual disciplines may help or may not help. So, switching disciplines can help, but it will not necessarily help.

    In dark times, it is always advisable to go through the entirety of life. Make sure the physical health is intact. Take up exercises, that helps clear the mind.

    Take up a spiritual artistic pursuit, like learning to play the sitar. That also directs the mind.

    Go through one's life and one's actions and may sure one's karma is safe. If you are not engaged in an occupation which is one of directed service toward God or toward the poor, maybe now is a time to consider switching careers.

    The main obstacle to spiritual experiences is often karma. The more we can clear up the obstructions caused by our actions, the better success we will have.

    Don't give up hope. Hang in there.

    Take care.

  2. #12
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    Re: Losing Hope

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~
    namasté

    Quote Originally Posted by SuryaVedanta754 View Post
    The main obstacle to spiritual experiences is often karma. The more we can clear up the obstructions caused by our actions, the better success we will have.
    Isn't clearing up the obstructions even creating more karma ( properly spelled karman¹) ? Trying to correct actions with limited knowledge gives limited results and more karman is created. That is why we are informed in the bhāgavad gītā , chapter 2, 45th śloka where kṛṣṇa-ji says 'be without the 3 guna-s , freed from duality… possessed of ( or established in) the SELF (ātmavān)'.

    The only place we can be without the 3 guna-s is when we are Self-facing, possessed of the Self. Then the 3 guna-s go on functioning, yet they are now under the direction of Universal Intelligence. It is here that the gunas are ~ balanced~ or functioning properly.
    We stay reserved within ātmavān.

    Hence this infers one's actions that come in alignment with pursuing one's own nature ( SELF) is a reasonable course to consider.

    iti śivaṁ

    words

    • karma is short for karman - action. One view suggests there are 4 types:
      • nirvartya , when anything new is produced
      • vikārya , when change is implied either of the substance and form
      • prāpya , when any desired object is attained
      • anīpsita, when an undesired object is abandoned
    • More on karman can be found within this HDF string: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=8360
    Last edited by yajvan; 12 November 2014 at 06:57 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  3. #13

    Re: Losing Hope

    Dear Dhanya ji,


    You see the same Balaji when they chant the japji sahib or guru granth sahib! When they say "he is formless, all love, incomprehensible by mind etc" ... that is the exact description of Balaji, only they called with a different name

    People address the same God with different names. The Sikhs saw him in one way, you see him in another way ... but both appreciate that he is Love, Bliss, Satisfaction, Beyond Comprehension !

    Love!
    Silence

  4. #14

    Re: Losing Hope

    Pranam,
    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    I caution the reader that these words must only be seen as the author's opinion or point of view.
    Thank you for pointing that out. Thank you, other mods, too.
    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~
    namasté



    This is quite interesting... can you connect the dots for me? I do not see how an action ( venturing out) and truth ( sad = sat; some prefer sattā ) are aligned. I would like to hear your views on the matter.
    Perhaps you are suggesting venturing out or being curious to find this sat ? ( these are just my observations - not putting any words in for you).

    iti śivaṁ
    Yajvan ji, I will be starting a thread on Asat shortly, to put across my view-point clearly, as I see Asat as the most important word in the whole of the Dharmic lexicon.


    KT
    Things to remember:

    1. Life = yajña
    2. Depth of Āstika knowledge is directly proportional
    to the richness of Sanskrit it is written in
    3. Āstika = Bhārata ("east") / Ārya ("west")
    4. Varṇa = tripartite division of Vedic polity
    5. r = c. x²
    where,
    r = realisation
    constant c = intelligence
    variable x = bhakti

  5. #15

    Re: Losing Hope

    Pranams,

    Firstly Dhanya please let me say that I know where you are coming from, and let us not lose hope, I think deep down even in times of existential crisis we know that we are onto something good, in fact so good that words cannot express uniquely what the actual conscious experience is, sat-cit-ananda is a beautiful caption for the desired goal, how it manifests within the true conscious experience we can only imagine ( unless we are at very high levels or even truly liberated), it is surely beyond intellectual exploration and description & is only there to be experienced.

    Secondly as many know here and others throughout history and within the hearts of the seeker, the aspirant who is filled with true sincerity that has the true meaning of jijnasya at his core that this is not a hobby, it is for real, we are however in the sate of de conditioing the false self.

    Lord Buddha taught in his first teaching of the four Noble truths that there is suffering, so while we are not fully enlightened, which is perhaps 99.9% of sadhaka's, discomfort is there, it will be there on different levels, even if it is experienced upon viewing the suffering of another. Many times on a personal level we fail to admit this and we are more comfortable with the mask of I am a spiritual person I read and practice, so therefore how dare anyone even suggest that I am suffering, I can explain in the most beautiful way that I am not, I can quote a verse and stand on my head longer than most people, we can build an exterior of who we are but internally things maybe different We mask the existential problems so well within spiritual circles. It dents the false ego to even contemplate to reveal and be honest that we are suffering. the Lord is within, right in the heart of of the heart, and He is always listening.

    I can't say I blame people, it's a strange world we live in, and the basic human values of love, trust and faith in others is now part of the niche market, even though lofty conceptual ideas are exhausted in philosophical discourses, but not always met with the same standard in the real world. But that love and security does exist, so I am generalizing and not denying the heart of many wonderful people within spiritual circles, but there is a problem in this area, especially now that society is becoming more and more secular.

    This brings me to the second part of perhaps changing a religion, or being more broad minded. The Supreme is as we understand all pervasive, not inside not outside, but on all sides, He is everything and no-thing simultaneously or else there has to be something outside and separate from God, if this was true then God only has partial power and is a limited being. I also have a connection with Bala Ji, not as deep as you but I have had Darshan a few times, and I felt something, has he never left me, or is He not inside all things diverting the wanderings of the lost Jiva back to His lotus feet, we only leave the Supreme Lord by avidya, and as the saying goes the Lord moves in mysterious ways.

    The texts is of manifold expressions, we have Shaivites, Vaishnavas, Sikhs, Buddhist and many other external sadhakas, to many to list, each with their own philosophy and expression, each has their own style, but if the Surpeme is not divided and the Supreme is our ever well wisher to get out of the bondage of Samsara then all these paths are equal. But even within this we have to be careful and sensible, there have been many stupid people in religion and the sacred path of Dharma has been corrupted by material motivation and worldly goals and of course ego maniacs.

    Many people in my journey have misunderstood me and my approach to non sectarianism, sectarianism just doesn't fit with me and even in the dictionary meaning the word bigot pops in to say Hi. But my advice is grab onto what you can that will free you from greed, hatred and ignorance, spiritual progress is by sincerity, not sentiment, I always go to the best source of any tradition that I am attracted to, enlightened masters are fueling each valid path, if I want to go to Sikhism if that resonates with me for a while, then I would read and learn from the best teachings of Sri Guru Nanak Ji, if I want a more avadhuta interpretation then seek out the most valid source of the teachings of Sri Chand Ji. If at some point I need Buddhism and need to install on a deeper level of understanding of impermanence because my existential position needs that then I have no problem and will seek out the most respected teaching on that subject. Many get lost in this way and stick to one tradition, I think it is best for most, as long as ones view does not become narrow and dogmatic, follow your heart, with sincerity and eventually things reveal itself, The Supreme is within all things, sometimes hidden, sometimes not, we cannot put it in prison and claim it only belongs in one place and within one teaching. He also is only within one teaching if the conscious awareness is expanding rather than retracting into a view.

    I hit many walls, I am having some problems with God at the moment, but we need to stick with it, keep practicing, keep true faith, pray when we have to , gain insight through yogic disciplines when we have to, but above all we have to be existentially aware and seek out the best source to deal with any existential crisis and be sensitive to the subjective experience, sincerity will ultimately save us.

    I hope this helps and my existence can at least be of some help somewhere.

    Ys

    Md
    Last edited by markandeya 108 dasa; 20 November 2014 at 06:03 AM.

  6. #16
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    Re: Losing Hope

    Namaste,

    Dear Dhanya, I will not criticize Sikhism but that is not Vaishnavism. If you are a Vaishnav, kindly remain so and do not offend your ishta devata by identifying as something else.

    I agree with the wise words of grames. Also, consider that it is a matter of perspective. If you had the same perspective as your ishta devata then you would understand that what is happening is for the best.

    To get better perspective, I recommend continuing this practice unfailingly: A. Awake early and chant your japa before taking anything except water. B. Practice the three-fold austerity (body, speech and mind) taught in Bhagavad Gita 17:14-17. C. Be patient. How to be patient? Association with other bhaktas according to Bhagavad Gita 10:9 ... Engaged in such association you will not notice the passage of time.

    Hari Aum


    Quote Originally Posted by Dhanya View Post
    Namaste,

    Hi, recently ( well for the past 1 year plus ) i have been losing hope in Vaisnaism. I have always ( and will be a great devotee ) . However, I don't think My Lord listens to me and in stead gives me so much of problems that I honestly can not handle.

    At the back of my mind, i know My Lord is there but something is blocking me from listening to Him.

    Do not get me wrong, but I will always be a great devotee of Lord Balaji, however, i find myself being drawn towards Sikhism.

    I listen to the Vedas in the morning, then I listen to some prayer at the Golden Temple.

    Can someone please help me? I do not want to displease Any Lord. I really need peace and a reason to smile in my life.

    Dhanya
    Last edited by R Gitananda; 22 November 2014 at 02:16 AM. Reason: spelling correction
    With our ears may we hear what is good.
    With our eyes may we behold thy righteousness.
    Tranquil in body, may we who worship thee find rest.

    AUM Peace Peace Peace

  7. #17

    Re: Losing Hope

    Pranams R Gitananda,

    Quote Originally Posted by R Gitananda View Post
    Namaste,

    Deah Dhanya, I will not criticize Sikhism but that is not Vaishnavism.
    I do not wish to derail the thread, or perhaps this would add to the nature of Dhanya Ji's question, maybe only he can decide, but if possible could this be discussed, perhaps in a new thread if you so please, I am genuinely interested.

    Ys

    Md

  8. #18

    Re: Losing Hope

    To all that have kindly contributed their words and thoughts,

    When i made the above post, i was in a very dark and lonely place. And for a few days i did lose hope but deep in my heart i knew it was just a storm that will pass or it was just another test of faith.

    Since then, things in my life have REALLY ( i say this with complete honestly ) changed for the better and i am very much happier and contented.

    Basically what i am trying to say now is thank you to all that have contributed their words of wisdom as for that particular moment, i really did think that i was alone ( but others have experienced the same situation too hence i was wrong ).

    Its nice to know that there is a place ( this forum ) for me and anyone else to voice out our frustrations / opinions / thought.

    I hope anyone who reads this has a great day ahead .

    Hari Om,
    Dhanya

  9. #19
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    Re: Losing Hope

    Pranams markandeya 108 dasa,

    I agree that we should not derail this thread. I have no desire to start a new one but I will be happy to read what you (and possibly others) have to say in a new thread.

    Hari Aum

    Quote Originally Posted by markandeya 108 dasa View Post
    Pranams R Gitananda,



    I do not wish to derail the thread, or perhaps this would add to the nature of Dhanya Ji's question, maybe only he can decide, but if possible could this be discussed, perhaps in a new thread if you so please, I am genuinely interested.

    Ys

    Md
    With our ears may we hear what is good.
    With our eyes may we behold thy righteousness.
    Tranquil in body, may we who worship thee find rest.

    AUM Peace Peace Peace

  10. #20

    Re: Losing Hope

    Pranams R Gitananda Ji,

    I asked this question to my friend who is Phd on issues of Sikhism, I put forward the question to him before. Although he has no real denomination as he makes no such distinction between Sikhism and Hinduism, and considers himself a Hari Bhakta. He says the divide of these things came later. I will quote parts of the conversation we had. I am no expert so it may need others to add more depth or perhaps needs personal research, if you have any question I would be happy to pass them onto him. My approach is through synthesis.

    The Udasis are philosophically advaitins of Shankara's school, and while upāsakas of the panchadevas, their ishtadeva is Sri Hari.


    Gurbani is nothing but bhakti to Narayana.


    The deity of the Gurus and Bhagats (devotees whose compositions are in the Guru Granth Sahib) was Vishnu, predominantly in His nirguna aspect but at times in His saguna form. The Granth is very clear on this. Ill send you some beautiful things on Krishna. One of the stories even has Vishnu and the devas coming in the form of sikhs to check out the construction of the Hari mandir sahib. When Guru Arjan worked out it was Narayan Himself who had come, Hari and the devas showed him their true forms and Vishnu said that this would be his dearest mandir. Guru Ramdas, his dad, instructed on the completion on the tank that a house of Mahavishnu is to be made. One 19th C Sevapanthi (another sampradaya in the Panth) text refers to the Guru Granth Sahib as a Vishnu avatar.
    I hope this helps shed some light on the matter, although I do fear posting these things may bring in sectarian debate

    Ys

    Md

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