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Thread: GOD within Us

  1. #1

    GOD within Us

    Hi friends I am new in this forum and have a question regarding the so called existence of god within us. I have heard from many hindu friends that god lives inside all human beings. Is it true? If its true then does it also mean that god lives inside a bad person such as murderers, thieves, rapists? If god lives inside a bad person then should we not abstain from punishing the bad person for doing crime and immoral deeds? Or does God live inside of only selected chosen person. Please enlighten me friends.

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    Re: GOD within Us

    Hari Om and Namaste 1,

    Friend, from our perspective there is no qualifier of, so called nor alleged.
    The limited person commits the act: Murder, theft, etc. The Supreme does not change. The limited person may be dealt with via the laws of land they inhabit if caught. The bad person definition does not work here. In this context, grace is grace, but no selected/elected only people here. One who does not live 24/7, aware, is apt to do something wrong. The level of egregiousness can vary.

    Respectfully, think question posed is based upon faulty assumption. If sincere seeker, many here better to respond or peruse this incredibly helpful forum and her multitude of resources to better understand.

    Take great care.

    Om Shanti

    FFTW

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    Re: GOD within Us

    Namaste The_One,

    Quote Originally Posted by The_One1 View Post
    Hi friends I am new in this forum and have a question regarding the so called existence of god within us. I have heard from many hindu friends that god lives inside all human beings. Is it true? If its true then does it also mean that god lives inside a bad person such as murderers, thieves, rapists? If god lives inside a bad person then should we not abstain from punishing the bad person for doing crime and immoral deeds? Or does God live inside of only selected chosen person. Please enlighten me friends.
    Yes, God resides in all of us and yet He is not within us. How ? For that we must define what we understand as "us". If "us" means our "intellect", our "ahamkAr", our "tendencies" our "mind", our "ego" etc. then it is not God but it is Nature acting powered by God. These emerge from God within us or better to say that these are powered by God. Without God's power, these cannot arise.

    Yes, He is there even in the worst sinner. However, even while being there within, He is not responsible for our actions but He is mere a witness in all our actions and thoughts. The "ego", "Intellect" and "Observing Mind" with past impressions create a virtual person (an entity) who owns all thoughts and actions performed. You will be surprised to know that all actions are actually done by Nature/Prakriti with all these arisings and therefore, actually there is no sinner or virtuous person. It is due to person's (virtual) attachment to ego which further owns up all actions and desires and thoughts that the virtual person goes into cycles of births and deaths and suffers pleasures and pains.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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    Re: GOD within Us

    Namaste,

    Welcome to the forum The_One1.

    It is customary for new members to introduce themselves, settle down in the forum and then start asking heavy hitting questions or start sharing their wisdom. In any event, meditate on the following gem from the above post,

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    ......even while being there within, He is not responsible for our actions but He is mere(ly) a witness in all our actions and thoughts. The "ego", "Intellect" and "Observing Mind", with past impressions create a virtual person (an entity) who owns all thoughts and actions performed.....
    Pranam.

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    Re: GOD within Us

    Quote Originally Posted by The_One1 View Post
    Hi friends I am new in this forum and have a question regarding the so called existence of god within us. I have heard from many hindu friends that god lives inside all human beings. Is it true? If its true then does it also mean that god lives inside a bad person such as murderers, thieves, rapists? If god lives inside a bad person then should we not abstain from punishing the bad person for doing crime and immoral deeds? Or does God live inside of only selected chosen person. Please enlighten me friends.
    Pranam,
    Have you read the following? (it's a bauddha shastram, but it's very relevant to your question):
    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipit....086.than.html
    After reading it, come back and share your opinions, then I'll share mine. I feel it would enhance the discussion.
    படைபோர் புக்கு முழங்கும்அப் பாஞ்சசன்னியமும் பல்லாண்டே
    May your pA~nchajanya shankha which reverberates on the battlefield, last thousands upon thousands of years...
    http://archives.mirroroftomorrow.org...anchajanya.jpg

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    Question Re: GOD within Us

    Namaste Devotee ji

    The terms God, Action, Thought, Virtual entity, Nature confuses.

    If every thing is created and executed by Nature you and I born / alive / dead because we are suppose to be in that predefined state.


    ie.,
    A kind hearted donates because it was predefined...
    likewise...
    A rapist rapes because it was predefined...

    Then why should their be a system (for the virtual) that appreciates good actions and denounces bad actions after all they are predefined.

    PS : Sincere apology incase my question has derailed the thread....

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    Namaste The_One,



    Yes, God resides in all of us and yet He is not within us. How ? For that we must define what we understand as "us". If "us" means our "intellect", our "ahamkAr", our "tendencies" our "mind", our "ego" etc. then it is not God but it is Nature acting powered by God. These emerge from God within us or better to say that these are powered by God. Without God's power, these cannot arise.

    Yes, He is there even in the worst sinner. However, even while being there within, He is not responsible for our actions but He is mere a witness in all our actions and thoughts. The "ego", "Intellect" and "Observing Mind" with past impressions create a virtual person (an entity) who owns all thoughts and actions performed. You will be surprised to know that all actions are actually done by Nature/Prakriti with all these arisings and therefore, actually there is no sinner or virtuous person. It is due to person's (virtual) attachment to ego which further owns up all actions and desires and thoughts that the virtual person goes into cycles of births and deaths and suffers pleasures and pains.

    OM
    Anirudh...

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    Question Re: GOD within Us

    Namaste Jaskaran Singh ji

    I am going to ask the same question that I asked Devotee ji but from a slightly different perspective...

    "Bear with it, brahman! Bear with it! The
    fruit of the kamma that would have burned you in hell for many years, many hundreds of years, many thousands of years, you are now experiencing in the here-&-now!"



    If i roughly translate and compare with a scholastic poem (Thirukkural) இடுக்கண் வருங்கால் நகுக meaning When in distress, laugh it off. Can I laugh without being happy?

    This means I should be happy if i am hurt and if I am severely hurt I should feel excited, isn't it? ...

    If we are experiencing the effects of our Karma (good or bad) then why we had Manu Neethi or have IPC or Geneva convention or Hague?

    Isn't stupid to have regulatory systems in place because we are creating more actions which inturn will create reactions and so on.

    So in other words the regulatory systems are hurdles for attaining moksha, isn't it?

    In this context the entire Mahaa Bhaaratham or Srimad Bhagavad Gita is meaningless or to be more precisely shouldn't be studied at all

    Let me know your opinion....

    PS : Dear OP, if you find the discussion moving away from your question let us know...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaskaran Singh View Post

    Pranam,
    Have you read the following? (it's a bauddha shastram, but it's very relevant to your question):
    http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipit....086.than.html

    After reading it, come back and share your opinions, then I'll share mine. I feel it would enhance the discussion.
    Last edited by Anirudh; 29 November 2014 at 09:42 PM.
    Anirudh...

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    Re: GOD within Us

    Namaste Anirudh,

    Quote Originally Posted by Anirudh View Post
    The terms God, Action, Thought, Virtual entity, Nature confuses.

    If every thing is created and executed by Nature you and I born / alive / dead because we are suppose to be in that predefined state.
    ie.,
    A kind hearted donates because it was predefined...
    likewise...
    A rapist rapes because it was predefined...

    Then why should their be a system (for the virtual) that appreciates good actions and denounces bad actions after all they are predefined.
    Things are not totally pre-destined but tendencies and gunas available in the environment can forcaste fairly well what is going to happen next. Still there is free-will of the (virtual) entities and they give shape to exactly what happens.

    How it all happens and how it all works is very difficult subject to understand. However, a careful Dream-analysis can explain to some extent how it all works. What happens in dream ? The Consciousness of the dreamer powers various characters including space, environment in the dream. How does the parent Consciousness powers these characters and everything in the dream ? The phenomenon is called ChidAbhAsa (reflected consciousness) which makes this all possible due to very very unique property of Consciousness and the nature of Dream/MAyA. These entities within a dream are nothing but thought-waves on Dreamers' consciousness which are conditioned by past impressions gathered by the dreamer during his waking state over a long-time. Now, every thought-wave like another person within the dream starts thinking and acting as if it had independent existence but the reality is that it is simply acting on reflected consciousness of the dreamer.

    Now, how the dream-character will act in a particular situation will depend upon the environment within the dream and past impressions gathered by the dreamer. A dream character can get beaten in the dream or can enjoy the happy moments due to favourable circumstances earned. The dreamer (not the dream-character acting on behalf of the dreamer) in the whole process remains only the substratum and the witness.

    In our situation (worldly life), we are the dream characters and God is the substratum which lends us reflected consciousness by ChidAbhAsa phenomenon. Here we are not exactly like the dream characters. We (even though we are just thought-waves on the Infinite Ocean of Pure-Consciousness which God is) have continuity from one dreamlike birth to another and we carry our own impressions of previous births and also keep accumulating impressions of this birth. Most important aspect is that we have free-will to take decisions and act. We can take decisions even against our tendencies arising out of our past impressions which dream-characters cannot. MAyA is more powerful than dream and can project forms in solid-liquid and gases basically arising from thought-waves powered by God.

    Lord Krishna says in Bhagwad Gita :

    "Actually all the actions are performed by Prakriti's gunas in all respects but man deluded by AhamkAr (i-ness) thinks that he is the doer." (BG:3.27)

    "He who sees inaction in action and action in inaction is wise and he is Yogi and doer of all actions". (BG 4.18)

    "Earth, Water, Fire, Air, Sky (Space), observing mind, intellect and AhamkAr (i-ness) is my eight-fold prakriti-nature. O Arjuna, by which all this is supported and sustained is my Jeeva-bhUta nature i.e. nature of Consciousness". (BG 7.4-5)

    "This whole universe is pervaded by my formless state. All beings are there in Me but I (in reality) am not in them." (BG 9.4)

    "I pervade all beings equally. I hate no one and I have no worldy love towards anyone." (BG 9.29)

    "That who sees God present everywhere equally with the same feeling doesn't destruct himself by himself and he goes to the Supreme state". (BG 13.28)

    "That who sees all actions being done by Prakriti alone in all respect and Sees AtmA (Self/God) as non-doer sees the reality." (BG 13.29)

    "When the seer sees no other but the gunas (of Prakriti) alone as the doer and knows that Supreme (God) who is beyond all gunas, he attains state that of Mine". (BG 14.19)

    "In this respect i.e. behind performance of an action, adhisThAn, feeling of doership, various types of organs (gross or subtle arising in Prakriti), various types of tendencies and fifth one the fate (arising out of our past actions) are solely responsible. (BG 18.14)

    "Whatever actions a man performs by mind, speech or body whether right or wrong are due these five (factors) alone." (BG 18.15)

    "In spite of that he who sees AtmA alone as the doer, that deluded person doesn't know the reality." (BG 18.16)

    "He who has no attachment to belief that "I am the doer" and whose intellect is not attached to worldly things actually doesn't kill anyone even by killing all (enemies) and is also not affected by sins accruing due to this action (of killing)." ( BG 18.17)

    OM
    Last edited by devotee; 30 November 2014 at 04:34 AM.
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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    Question Re: GOD within Us

    Namaste Devotee ji

    Thank you very much for this detailed explanations.

    I understood all but for three highlighted portions.

    1. I understood your explanations through the dream, dreamer, characters with in the dream example. Characters within the dream can't act independently, but the dreamer can. But the dreamer ie us are governed by the gunas of Prakruthi. Then what exactly is a free will?

    2. What is the difference between Maya and Free will? If Maya is there to make me believe my actions have originated because of me or I am doing them then how can this Maya be removed from me?

    If Maya is to be shunned then why do we need a free will?


    3. How can all of us are in him but he is not in us?

    I dont know whether my questions are elementary, but these are the doubts I got.

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    Namaste Anirudh,



    Things are not totally pre-destined but tendencies and gunas available in the environment can forcaste fairly well what is going to happen next. 1st doubt
    Still there is free-will of the (virtual) entities and they give shape to exactly what happens.


    How it all happens and how it all works is very difficult subject to understand. However, a careful Dream-analysis can explain to some extent how it all works. What happens in dream ? The Consciousness of the dreamer powers various characters including space, environment in the dream. How does the parent Consciousness powers these characters and everything in the dream ? The phenomenon is called ChidAbhAsa (reflected consciousness) which makes this all possible due to very very unique property of Consciousness and the nature of Dream/MAyA. These entities within a dream are nothing but thought-waves on Dreamers' consciousness which are conditioned by past impressions gathered by the dreamer during his waking state over a long-time. Now, every thought-wave like another person within the dream starts thinking and acting as if it had independent existence but the reality is that it is simply acting on reflected consciousness of the dreamer.

    Now, how the dream-character will act in a particular situation will depend upon the environment within the dream and past impressions gathered by the dreamer. A dream character can get beaten in the dream or can enjoy the happy moments due to favourable circumstances earned. The dreamer (not the dream-character acting on behalf of the dreamer) in the whole process remains only the substratum and the witness.

    In our situation (worldly life), we are the dream characters and God is the substratum which lends us reflected consciousness by ChidAbhAsa phenomenon. Here we are not exactly like the dream characters. We (even though we are just thought-waves on the Infinite Ocean of Pure-Consciousness which God is) have continuity from one dreamlike birth to another and we carry our own impressions of previous births and also keep accumulating impressions of this birth. Most important aspect is that we have free-will to take decisions and act. We can take decisions even against our tendencies arising out of our past impressions which dream-characters cannot. 2nd Doubt
    MAyA is more powerful than dream and can project forms in solid-liquid and gases basically arising from thought-waves powered by God.


    Lord Krishna says in Bhagwad Gita :

    "Actually all the actions are performed by Prakriti's gunas in all respects but man deluded by AhamkAr (i-ness) thinks that he is the doer." (BG:3.27)

    "He who sees inaction in action and action in inaction is wise and he is Yogi and doer of all actions". (BG 4.18)

    "Earth, Water, Fire, Air, Sky (Space), observing mind, intellect and AhamkAr (i-ness) is my eight-fold prakriti-nature. O Arjuna, by which all this is supported and sustained is my Jeeva-bhUta nature i.e. nature of Consciousness". (BG 7.4-5)

    3rd doubt

    "This whole universe is pervaded by my formless state. All beings are there in Me but I (in reality) am not in them." (BG 9.4)


    "I pervade all beings equally. I hate no one and I have no worldy love towards anyone." (BG 9.29)

    "That who sees God present everywhere equally with the same feeling doesn't destruct himself by himself and he goes to the Supreme state". (BG 13.28)

    "That who sees all actions being done by Prakriti alone in all respect and Sees AtmA (Self/God) as non-doer sees the reality." (BG 13.29)

    "When the seer sees no other but the gunas (of Prakriti) alone as the doer and knows that Supreme (God) who is beyond all gunas, he attains state that of Mine". (BG 14.19)


    "Whatever actions a man performs by mind, speech or body whether right or wrong are due these five (factors) alone

    "He who has no attachment to belief that "I am the doer" and whose intellect is not attached to worldly things actually doesn't kill anyone even by killing all (enemies) and is also not affected by sins accruing due to this action (of killing)." ( BG 18.17)

    OM
    Anirudh...

  10. #10

    Re: GOD within Us

    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    "I pervade all beings equally. I hate no one and I have no worldy love towards anyone." (BG 9.29)OM
    Namaste,

    Allow me to complete that verse which is imcomplete here :
    Bg 9.29

    samo ’haṁ sarva-bhūteṣu
    na me dveṣyo ’sti na priyaḥ
    ye bhajanti tu māṁ bhaktyā
    mayi te teṣu cāpy aham


    I pervade all beings equally. I hate no one and I have no worldy love towards anyone. However, whoever renders service unto Me in devotion is a friend, is in Me, and I am also a friend to him.

    om namo bhagavate vAsudevAya
    Last edited by smaranam; 30 November 2014 at 08:59 AM.
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

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