Page 1 of 7 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 67

Thread: Prove God exists, how?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Location
    ramsss.com
    Age
    46
    Posts
    17
    Rep Power
    0

    Question Prove God exists, how?

    hello,

    Answering my son's question.

    My son think people believing in God is not Science and something not proved.
    Last edited by yajvan; 22 November 2014 at 07:43 AM.
    ramsss.com

  2. #2

    Re: Prove God exists, how?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vrindavan View Post
    Answering my son's question.

    My son think people believing in God is not Science and something not proved.
    Namaste Vrindavan,

    Behind every equation of Science written there in a book there is a lot of creative work that went into formulating it.

    Your son is still growing (yeah do tell him this), it is indeed excellent that he has keen interest in Science. But in case he takes up this interest seriously in the future, as a career-choice perhaps for example, then he will need to explore into that creative realm.

    And surely, Dharma is not Science. Not everything is Science. To me, being able to become an elite Soldier for example is a far greater achievement than becoming a Noble laureate in Physics.

    Again, the creative work, of which all this Science and Dharma and Arts are a product, goes on at the "back of our minds", and though we certainly can't prove or disprove (an activity of frontal brain) the existence of devata-s, we do know from experience that a lot can be gained from their acquaintance.


    Shri Ram,

    KT
    Things to remember:

    1. Life = yajña
    2. Depth of Āstika knowledge is directly proportional
    to the richness of Sanskrit it is written in
    3. Āstika = Bhārata ("east") / Ārya ("west")
    4. Varṇa = tripartite division of Vedic polity
    5. r = c. x²
    where,
    r = realisation
    constant c = intelligence
    variable x = bhakti

  3. #3

    Re: Prove God exists, how?

    Namaste

    He is right.

    God is not proved by science. Consciousness and matter either.

    Pranams.

  4. #4

    Re: Prove God exists, how?

    Can you prove existence or non - existence of "Dwindigole" ?

    You will naturally ask me : what does the word mean ?

    Long before I prove the existence or non-existence of "God", what does the word mean ?

    The word God means "Existence Itself".
    Then ... prove the existence of "Existence" is easy isnt it ?


    So its important that one understands the word God ... what is SAT-CIT-ANANDA... then the question "Prove its existence becomes redundant" , since God is Existence indeed !


    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

  5. #5
    Join Date
    July 2010
    Location
    The Holy Land - India
    Posts
    2,723
    Rep Power
    5326

    Re: Prove God exists, how?

    Gentlemen,

    If you really want to help the OP, then you have to come off your high horse and say something that makes sense. Remember, he has to talk to his son, who might be a 15-20 year old kid and who does not believe in God. So, the terms consciousness and SAT-CHIT-ANAD don't mean much to him. If you can't come down to his level and talk some sense, then you are just exercising your ego and not helping anyone. That is how we get long threads when people post all kinds of incomprehensible, stupid things, just because they want to participate. So, please get real and post something that has value. Let us try to raise the level of discourse in the forum, instead of showing off with knowledge of definitions of religiously oriented terms. To a non-religious person they are meaningless. Come up with a five sentence post on why should a science oriented youngster believe that God is real. Everything else is bogus.

    Pranam.
    Last edited by Believer; 22 November 2014 at 11:04 AM.

  6. #6

    Re: Prove God exists, how?

    Dear Believer,

    Shankara gave elaborate logic and presents the Truth with absolute clarity ! And we give our children half baked beliefs ! ??
    Is this not the reason for their questioning. If a 20 year old still does not understand all the logic presented ... it means we are giving them what ? A belief which he can hold onto ? The very fact that he is questioning means he is not satisfied with beliefs and it also indicates present the logic properly ... dont merely give me a new belief. Its wonderful that a youngster asks such pertinent questions ! Because only by questioning and inquiring can knowledge be gained. It just shows a well prepared mind!

    A God sitting on clouds is not "Vedantic" concept of God. Unfortunately, today people do not understand God as explained in Vedanta. Vedanta does not preach beliefs and a 20 year old wants not beliefs but clarity about what God means.

    God seen as someone sitting "up there" trying to look into all our activities - if this is the kind of idea someone wants to present to a teenager, the teenager will obviously revolt ... thanks to the scientific background.

    If you want to give a proper scientific explanation , give it through as presented in Vedanta ... in a totally appropriate way. Its only because we give half baked ideas that the youth do not appreciate the value of our tradition ... Vedanta is not speaking of beliefs and yet very few people know what Vedantic meaning of God is ! Thats why people have some questions. As people mature, they tend to ignore and stop questioning ... it does not mean they believe in God, it just means that they have grown old ... but the youth are not like that ... they will question and if you explain what God means in a proper vedantic sense, their understanding grows!! They tend to appreciate it better !

    Lets not push everything under the carpet by saying "This is not for everyone" ... Proper and systematic presentation alone will solve doubts ... not new beliefs !

    SAT CIT ANANDA ... has no religion in it, other than the fact tht the terms are sanskrit. IF the vedantic concept of God is understood ... science will have no problems with it ... please don't spread half baked ideas of god and create confusion in youngsters who are science oriented. Let them see the beauty of indian logic! Lets feel proud first tht we are not presenting beliefs ... lets feel proud of the kind of logical system we have , the kind of clarity ... and the systematic way in which God is defined in Hinduism.

    You don't urinate every time you see a tree in India; so why post some non-sense every time you see an open thread?
    And YOU OWE ME AN APOLOGY FOR CALLING MY PREVIOUS POST A NONSENSE AND ALSO COMPARING IT TO URINATION ... that too without proper understanding as to why I wrote it! If you do not want to appreciate god as "SAT-CIT-ANANDA" its your choice... but you have no business to call someone else's explanation nonsense ! It may not make sense to you unless you are open to it ... it does not mean you go and compare it to urination! I have a right to present my views ... and the views do not call anyone's ideas as "non-sense" ... they simply present an advaitic perspective ... and its my choice as to what I present, without hurting others ! So I think one should either be open to what the other person is presenting or remain mute if one doesnot understand the import!

    Love!
    Silence
    Last edited by silence_speaks; 21 November 2014 at 10:01 PM.
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

  7. #7
    Join Date
    December 2007
    Age
    57
    Posts
    3,213
    Rep Power
    4713

    Re: Prove God exists, how?

    Namaste Vrindavan,

    Quote Originally Posted by Vrindavan View Post
    Answering my son's question.

    My son think people believing in God is not Science and something not proved.
    If 'God' is meant by some old person sitting in heaven who is responsible for creation, sustenance and destruction, then there is no logical proof. I didn't use the word, "Scientific" ... because Science has not be able to prove that and will never be.

    MAndukya Upanishad says that the third state of Self i.e. God is undifferentiated (or unified) mass of consciousness which is the origin and end of all beings and that is the Lord of the two worlds. "Undifferentiated" means there is no duality. This means that the whole universe is nothing but mass of Consciousness. Let's see what science has been able to prove so far :
    a) Matter and energy are non-different entity.Space and Time are illusory i.e. non-different from Matter and Energy as it can all be merged into one point as was before Big-bang.
    b) The laws of nature is well known to everything in this world even to the tiniest particle or even energy and everything in this world strictly follows the laws of nature. An ion of Na+ can identify the presence of Cl- and combine. An atom knows what it needs for a stable configuration whether to add or lose electrons and that makes it look for atoms who want to lose or gain electrons. The earth can feel the force of attraction exerted by the Sun and and that keeps her moving at certain speed and on a certain path. Electrons know on which side potential is higher and on which side it is lower otherwise flow of electrons under potential difference is impossible. Heat energy knows on which side the temperature is lower otherwise flow of heat in that pin-pointed direction is not possible. We also know that from inorganic matter intelligent virus can be formed in a laboratary (which proves that intelligence is inherent in even non-living substances). etc. etc.

    Where is this consciousness stored in atoms, electrons, quarks or energy ? What is the essence of all these particles and energy from which they originate and merge back into that essence. All forms of matter and energy are changing except one thing that is Consciousness and therefore, it is logical top assume that these are nothing but different forms of Consciousness. This also proves that everything is born from Consciousness and merge back into Consciousness.

    The above logic proves that Consciousness is everything and Upanishads say that Consciousness is God. Now, Consciousness by its very definition must be aware of everything i.e. there can be no knowledge which can remain outside Consciousness otherwise the definition of Consciousness will be violated. So, Consciousness must be Omniscient which is one of the attributes of God. As Consciousness alone exists which manifests itself in varied forms and actions, there is no challenge to it in the universe (as there no other entity) which makes it Omnipotent which is another attribute of God. As everything comes from Consciousness and merges back into Consciousness ... it is the Creator and Destroyer of this universe which is yet another attribute of God.

    So, logically, God exists. Sorry, God alone exists and everything else is illusory.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  8. #8
    Join Date
    July 2010
    Location
    The Holy Land - India
    Posts
    2,723
    Rep Power
    5326

    Re: Prove God exists, how?

    Namaste,

    I apologize to you and to everyone else.
    As you so proudly announce, friends I am not harsh, just candid. Or some such thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by silence_speaks View Post
    And YOU OWE ME AN APOLOGY ............. without proper understanding as to why I wrote it!
    That is my frustration!
    If I don't have a proper understanding as why you wrote whatever you wrote, how do you expect a youngster who thinks we are all nuts for believing in God understand anything? Why not simplify things so that you can communicate with a rebellious young man who has no need for, no reverence for God and who neither understands nor cares for the spiritual terms that are used in the post.

    In my book if a teacher could not make a student understand something, the teacher failed in his mission. The teacher has to come down to the student's level to communicate, otherwise it is just another post which takes up some memory of a server. But don't mind my banter and keep guiding people on the path.

    Pranam.
    Last edited by Believer; 22 November 2014 at 11:05 AM.

  9. #9

    Re: Prove God exists, how?

    Dear Believer,


    Even my asking for apology is a candid expression alone. Thank you. I respect the openness and maturity.

    Youngsters have to be exposed to the teaching ... not to a belief.

    if you tell me "there is a god who created this", am i not reasonable in asking "why can this not be mere dna based evolution?" ... and if we find it tough to answer that, it is only because we have not looked into our own teachers ... properly. Shankara , for example, did not merely say this and leave it at it. He gave a through explanation. The explanation is missing and so they don't get it.

    in our tradition (hindu), we give the benefit of doubt to the person who is presenting an idea ... that is a mark of openness. If we immediately jump up and say "This is too much for novices" ... it is not being open to the person who is presenting the idea. Instead there should be a descent question "Don't you think this is hard to grasp for a youngster" ... and the answer is "No! I can prove it" ... and so an open person has to listen to the proof and inquire into it to come to a conclusion. Coming down to the student's level does not mean toning down the teaching ... but interacting with the student ... the student should be open and not straight away dismiss an idea as superior or too much ! Interact and see for yourself if its absolutely simple or not !

    This is our traditional approach. That is why we have question and answer kind of discussions going on in our scriptures and prakarana granthas.

    This is not to insult you or make you feel low ... We are all in the embrace of God 24 7 ... if we recognize this , we are all very pure ... there is no looking down on anyone ... looking into the eyes of an innocent person, i see that they are like me ... if i can understand they can ... provided they do not say to themselves that "they cannot". you are what I am, neither am i superior to you nor inferior. So if i can get it , no reason why you cannot ... and if you can get it no reason why you should exclude someone else and say they are lower. The problem is not in the toughness of the subject but in the non-openness on the students behalf. one who is open can get it ...


    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

  10. #10
    Join Date
    February 2014
    Location
    Bangalore
    Posts
    264
    Rep Power
    626

    Re: Prove God exists, how?

    Dear friends ,
    God is energy , God is love , God is compassion , God is nature which can be experienced but can't be proved , since all these attributes and qualities are abstract in essence.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Brahman, Prakriti and Jivas per Dvaita
    By wundermonk in forum Dvaita
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 07 January 2012, 08:01 PM
  2. The incomparability of Hinduism
    By Kumar_Das in forum Dvaita
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 15 June 2011, 04:31 AM
  3. VOID Void void
    By bhaktajan in forum Canteen
    Replies: 140
    Last Post: 14 November 2009, 11:31 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •