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Thread: Prove God exists, how?

  1. #41
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    Thumbs Down Re: Prove God exists, how?

    Quote Originally Posted by saswathy View Post
    Dear friends ,
    The proof of God's existence is one thing which is highly impossible to give. When one is hungry , one has to eat the food . No amount of the description of food relieves the pangs of hunger. The same way, when a person wants proof , he has to make a foray in to the spiritual path. It is one thing which is felt but can't be shown .
    If some body tries to show, it is not the proof but cheap gimmick , or at the most siddhi , which does not contribute to the truth.
    Namaste Saswathy ji,

    I don't mince words when they shouldn't be.

    It is difficult to prove GOD to a person who operates from a logical mindset because many situations can't be proved logically. Until then that particular person will consider that action/situation as a thing which has not yet been proved.

    Keeping that in mind if we leave the topic at that state, it is an act of wisdom maturity humility.

    But once we try to confuse the seeker (could very well be a non believer) with terms like siddhi etc etc it is NOTHING but an act of pure unadulterated baseless reckless offering.

    By doing that you are insulting the Tapasvis and their Tapasya. I hope you understand what you have offered.
    Anirudh...

  2. #42
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    Re: Prove God exists, how?

    Dear friend ,
    I mean the siddhis shown by many babas ,swamis ,gurus ,but not real siddhas.You are free to express to your views . I had seen many babas producing shiv lings , gold chains , watches and many things . An ordinary person thinks that the person doing all those tricks is a god .

  3. #43
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    Re: Prove God exists, how?

    Namaste Silence Speaks ji

    I wish to concur whether both of us are in same page.

    In nutshell you are saying :

    When you are ready the teacher appear.

    Grace is only to be found by effort,
    although it is here and now.

    To get ready there should be an effort and then everything fall in place.

    It is like what you see in rear mirror when you drive. If you don't see the rear mirror, it is Not a proof for the non existence of the world that you see in mirror.

    But to see that world you should make the effort to look at the rear mirror.

    But are you trying to say every experience Good or Bad is a divine experience ? I don't think that way.

    Here is where we have to apply many of the philosophical findings discovered / interpreted by our Achaarya (s)

    Quote Originally Posted by silence_speaks View Post
    Dear markandeya 108 dasa & saswathy,
    All Experiences are hallucinatory - unreal.
    There is no specific experience called the "Experience of God"

    In fact , if "Isavasyam idam sarvam" ... then there is no way that you can miss the experience of God -- you already have it. If at all you still seem to think that the experience of God is not there, its merely a lack of recognition. Its like the story of Tulasidasa

    Tulasidasa used to chant rama nama during his morning ablutions and pour water near a tree. Hearing his chanting of Rama Nama every day, a Brahma Rakshashi on the tree got free from its curse. So it appeared before Tulasi, thanked him and asked him to seek a boon within its limits. Tulasi Dasa asked the Rakshashi to show him Rama.

    "I cannot show you Rama, but I can tell you one thing. Every day as teach Ramayana, Hanuman comes in the form of a leper and sits at one corner of your assembly. He might be able to help.", the Rakshashi said.

    The next day Tulasidas catches hold of Hanuman in the form of leper and pleads him to show Rama. So Hanuman says "Ok, tomorrow you shall see Rama". The next day, as Tulasi was going about , Rama walked past him in the opposite direction , but Tualsidas missed him ! HE saw him and yet missed him!

    In the evening, he once again requested Hanuman to show him Rama. Hanuman said "You saw him and yet did not recognize him, tomorrow you shall see again"...

    the next day as Tulasidas was preparing Sandalwood, sri Rama came to him and asked him for a little of Sandalwood. Tulasidas gave him Sandalwood and yet did not recognize Rama ! This time, since Hanuman did not want him to miss ... he sat on the tree and chanted "Tulasi is indeed fortunate, Rama himself appeared to him to ask for Sandalwood"!!

    Only then did he recognize.

    We do not lack the experience of God. You can see him in the eyes of the poor person who sought some food from you, in the eyes of the child, in the eyes of your friends and foes... in your own eyes ... the one who is seeing through those eyes is God Himself !!

    infact ... right now you are in the embrace of God ... but if we still think we lack the experience of God, its not a problem with experience but with the recognition of God , recognition of God's presence !!

    For a moment if you remain in the present moment and look at anything ... you remain as mere presence, here and now ... it remains as presence ... that is God ! The Experience of God.

    You meet God everyday 24 7 ... but you do not meet him with a bow and arrow or with a tail or a snake wound around the neck ... so you miss him!!

    One day, i was meditating and pleading God to appear before me ... and it was suddenly as if God said "Why don't you recognize my formless Presence"! After that I never sought God to appear before me , because he is everywhere ! Everywhere !! You just cannot miss him!

    Love!
    Silence
    Anirudh...

  4. #44

    Re: Prove God exists, how?

    Namaste,

    A few musings upon the subjects at hand ...

    Circular arguments are, to my mind, a proof of the lack of experience and of emotional vision, the sap by which the spiritual tree lives. Experience is manas tattva emanating or resonating within existence; the very vehicle of its construct are the construct of the risi who then describe.

    Circular arguments, rather akin to proof of the void, are like a blank smile with many teeth yet with very little feeling emanating from inside; much exists out side of that. An energy is transmitted in humility, in a twinkle of the eyes; that is and is of that experience. A circular argument can never do this, it has no twinkle in the eyes.

    Direct experience of that can cause the soul to vibrate in such a way; by way of Śaktipāta. Whether initiated by Guru or by self will depend entirely upon the capacity of the aspirant. One thing is to my mind certain; this is experienced or felt.

    To state that Śaktipāta does not manifest in vibration; is to proclaim that one is already dead; retreat to the mountains advised. I think proof enough for the need of God, of duality; whilst removing the husk of delusion, illusion and allusion; so that reality can shine.

    The reality being that there never was any illusion; it was śiva the time.
    8i8

  5. #45
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    Re: Prove God exists, how?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mana View Post
    Namaste,

    A few musings upon the subjects at hand ...

    Circular arguments are, to my mind, a proof of the lack of experience and of emotional vision, the sap by which the spiritual tree lives. Experience is manas tattva emanating or resonating within existence; the very vehicle of its construct are the construct of the risi who then describe.

    Circular arguments, rather akin to proof of the void, are like a blank smile with many teeth yet with very little feeling emanating from inside; much exists out side of that. An energy is transmitted in humility, in a twinkle of the eyes; that is and is of that experience. A circular argument can never do this, it has no twinkle in the eyes.

    Direct experience of that can cause the soul to vibrate in such a way; by way of Śaktipāta. Whether initiated by Guru or by self will depend entirely upon the capacity of the aspirant. One thing is to my mind certain; this is experienced or felt.

    To state that Śaktipāta does not manifest in vibration; is to proclaim that one is already dead; retreat to the mountains advised. I think proof enough for the need of God, of duality; whilst removing the husk of delusion, illusion and allusion; so that reality can shine.

    The reality being that there never was any illusion; it was śiva the time.
    Namaste Mana ji

    Can you please explain your position in a lucid and easily understandable language.

    I am young in my spritual journey. I couldn't understand your offering completely and partial knowledge is dangerous.

    Hope you ll consider my request.
    Anirudh...

  6. #46
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    Exclamation Re: Prove God exists, how?

    Namaste Saswathy ji

    I have seen in internet arguments people change the goal post or play with words.

    For eg : There is himalayan difference between the following two statements.

    #1. MEN stare at WOMEN
    #2. Evil minded MEN stare at WOMEN.

    Every one has opinion but generalization doesn't serve any purpose.

    Thank you...


    Quote Originally Posted by saswathy View Post
    Dear friend ,

    I mean the siddhis shown by many babas ,swamis ,gurus ,but not real siddhas.You are free to express to your views . I had seen many babas producing shiv lings , gold chains , watches and many things . An ordinary person thinks that the person doing all those tricks is a god .

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by saswathy
    Dear friends ,
    The proof of God's existence is one
    thing which is highly impossible to
    give. When one is hungry , one has
    to eat the food . No amount of the
    description of food relieves the
    pangs of hunger. The same way,
    when a person wants proof , he has
    to make a foray in to the spiritual
    path. It is one thing which is felt
    but can't be shown .


    If some body tries to show, it is
    not the proof but cheap gimmick ,
    or at the most siddhi , which does
    not contribute to the truth.

    Anirudh...

  7. #47

    Re: Prove God exists, how?

    Namaste Anirudh,

    Partial knowledge is not so much dangerous as it is ensnaring, yet that is the very fiber by which the threads of time grow; which paradoxical is also a function that preserves knowledge; either in a genuine form, else by example of that which is not sustainable, perhaps better said: sattvic. As the long standing temple is eventually cover by the growth of rajas a tamas in dispute

    Delightfully then it is in time, that one might come to discover such a temple of knowledge; requiring only the brushing off of such encumbering, ensnaring fiber of roots and and threads; to reveal the glorious treasure within.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anirudh View Post
    Namaste Mana ji

    Can you please explain your position in a lucid and easily understandable language.

    I am young in my spritual journey. I couldn't understand your offering completely and partial knowledge is dangerous.

    Hope you ll consider my request.
    I speak in analogies Anirudh; as I find any direct reference to be futile in comparison with reality, that of the beauty that is awareness of God conciousness. For the fear that any analogy be mistaken for a rigid truth and become yet another creeper upon the walls of the temple; when it is the door that which we wish and aspire to describe ...

    By all means, if you would like me to rephrase any particular sentiment; please tell me which, I shall do my very best to do so and in a manor that best befits the time.

    I will freely admit that the English that I write here is no longer used in any conversational form, and perhaps never was. Then writing is a form of art and timing is everything in speech; so how best to bridge that gap or void, in an internet forum thread?

    Kind regards.
    8i8

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    Re: Prove God exists, how?

    Dear friend ,
    '' to prove is not possible '' ----- is a specific and clear statement but not a general statement . I don't think that proof was given at any time , in any place, by any one in our yuga as far as my knowledge goes . Argument for the sake of argument does not lead us any where .

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    Re: Prove God exists, how?

    Namaste Saswathy

    This is turning into an absurd argument.

    Read post#40. I replied to the highlighted portion in your post #31. Read your post #31 and then my reply at #40.

    In the days of Azhwars, they have even spoken to God.

    Why should I call Azhwars to bail me out?

    My continued survival is a proof of existence of God. I have met God at different times in flesh and bone and many times in dreams. Realization happened as I grew spiritually.

    Like Silence Speaks had said, Shree Raama Chandra Prabhu didn't appear with bow and arrow.


    I have clearly answered to proving part also. Read post #40. Just because you met some frauds you can't generalize all others.

    Please for heaven sake dont mix magic and siddhi. They are not synonymous. And don't shift goal post or twist statements. It doesn't help.

    Your statements directly mean that Our Saints were all telling lies. Do you think earth is not flat but spherical. Have you seen the entire Earth at one instance or you believe because some one whom you haven't met in flesh and bones and some organization which you don't belong to told you or published that earth is spherical in shape?

    The same question is for atom. Do you think atom has atleast 3 constituents protons electrons and neurons. Have you seen it?

    I am not going explain this topic further.

    Thanks...


    Quote Originally Posted by saswathy View Post
    Dear friend ,
    '' to prove is not possible '' ----- is a specific and clear statement but not a general statement . I don't think that proof was given at any time , in any place, by any one in our yuga as far as my knowledge goes . Argument for the sake of argument does not lead us any where .
    Anirudh...

  10. #50
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    Re: Prove God exists, how?

    Dear friend ,
    Gimmics , magics , cheap tricks of fake babas , swamis or gurus are very much prevalent in to day's society . A real athma gnani never tries to prove any thing to any one . When I referred the so called siddhis I never meant the great yogis . My limited knowledge in
    English or in the subject did not allow me to give a correct expression .The argument ends from my side on this topic. But it
    would be highly appreciated if any body can prove God's existence or non existence.

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