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Thread: Prove God exists, how?

  1. #51

    Re: Prove God exists, how?

    Dear saswathy,

    You highlight the importance of firm understanding or grounding in vedāṅga, education; so as not to become to easily led.
    These are the first axioms required upon ones path, the conjecture to find God, starts in self awareness, and ultimately leads to God conciousness.
    Patañjali's Yoga Sūtras are of course fine instruction in how not to be misled, how to see for ones self; compatible with any school or path.
    I think most relevant to the subject of this thread.

    Kind regards.
    8i8

  2. #52

    Re: Prove God exists, how?

    Dear Anirudh,


    But are you trying to say every experience Good or Bad is a divine experience ? I don't think that way.
    If you know how to recognize God there !
    Experiences are all mithya ... like a snake imagined on a rope ...

    the Rope is God! Wherever you see the snake that is imagined on the rope ... there itself is the rope - God.

    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

  3. #53
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    Re: Prove God exists, how?

    Quote Originally Posted by silence_speaks View Post
    Dear Anirudh,




    If you know how to recognize God there !
    Experiences are all mithya ... like a snake imagined on a rope ...

    the Rope is God! Wherever you see the snake that is imagined on the rope ... there itself is the rope - God.

    Love!
    Silence
    How can you say that?

    That's where the problem. This mythical notion is the single most important cause for the submissiveness seen among Indian Hindus in general.

    We will have to revisit purushartha and validate your statements with that.

    Assume there are two individuals X and Y. The worldly relationship relationship is husband and wife. Z appears from no where and harms Y. Y dies. X experiences sorrow.

    Souls of X, Y and Z are immortal. Place holder suffered but not the souls of X and Y. So Z shouldn't be punished. But Shree Keshava didn't do that...Or did he?

    Open and shut case because all experiences are mithya. Isn't it?
    Anirudh...

  4. #54
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    Re: Prove God exists, how?

    Namaste Mana

    I wish not to change your writing style.

    Thank you ....
    Anirudh...

  5. #55

    Re: Prove God exists, how?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anirudh View Post
    How can you say that?

    That's where the problem. This mythical notion is the single most important cause for the submissiveness seen among Indian Hindus in general.

    We will have to revisit purushartha and validate your statements with that.

    Assume there are two individuals X and Y. The worldly relationship relationship is husband and wife. Z appears from no where and harms Y. Y dies. X experiences sorrow.

    Souls of X, Y and Z are immortal. Place holder suffered but not the souls of X and Y. So Z shouldn't be punished. But Shree Keshava didn't do that...Or did he?

    Open and shut case because all experiences are mithya. Isn't it?
    Dear Anirudh,
    Does the knowledge that earth is not flat but spherical (approximately) change your experience when you walk on it ? Do you start to wobble about rather than walk?

    If someone tells you that due to the knowledge that earth is not flat, his actual experience has changed -- if he tells you that he has started to wobble around and roll rather than walk ... would you not tell him to go and meet a doctor ?

    Knowledge does not change your current experience, it just allows you to appreciate the experience better (understand it) and enables you to do things which you could not even think of earlier. For example : knowing that the earth is not flat allows you to send a geo satellite. But it does not change your experience here.

    Same thing with any understanding. When you understand that experiences are Mithya , its an understanding... one has to inquire into it and grasp the understanding. What does that mean ? Then when i say you have the experience of God in and through every experience ... its another statement for understanding. None of them change your experience of the world. You simply look at the same world differently. Even as , your knowledge that the sky is colorless does not stop you from writing a poem on the "Blue Sky" .

    Self Knowledge does not change your experience --- you continue to see the same world, even when you know it to be mithya, but knowing it as mithya [how is it mithya ?? ], you discover inner freedom ... total satisfaction [how this happens has to be understood properly once again ]... That purnatvam, or Completeness or Fulfilledness is another name for God [once again if it is properly understood].

    I have left lot of statements unexplained ... since a sincere student has to inquire into them with the aid of a proper teacher to know the reality about it.

    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

  6. #56

    Re: Prove God exists, how?

    Pranams

    Interestingly this thread is the one of the most viewed, so the question if God exists or not is most certainly of high value.

    For me personal the answer is quite simple, all beings bar non look up to something greater than oneself, even the most Atheistic of Scientist study what ever range of their field in great wonder and always find out new information, its an endless study, as soon as something is discovered then more studies are carried out to see how it works and what is the potential.

    To simplify it there are two areas of study, that which we can observe, phenomena and that which observes, so far both are an endless study, in both phenomena and consciousness each separate study requires a very in depth analysis.

    The Vedas would study the universe and creation but at the same time the subject that studied it would also include himself, as they were part of the experience of creation and a conscious being, so the two would be developed at the same time.

    Is modern science limited by the range of how much they can know due to lack of conscious studies and development on them self.

    The Vedas say that ultimately everything is consciousness, so the sadhaka and Rishis were accomplished in this area, the modern day scientist may not be individually.

    If we boil water and see the maximum temp is 100 degrees then many people can objectively see this, but can they all objectively experience that the water is 100 degrees, only unless they submerge in the water can they know the experience. So objective study has its limits.

    Bhakti Svarupa Damodara Swami, who worked very hard for a synthesis in science and religion always based every approach to knowledge first on the moral grounds of the individual, both the scientist and the religious person first should be a perfect human being. Then there will be more depth in the understanding of the two.

    What I have noticed over the past years where Atheists used to be very defiant against all forms of spiritual aspects they soon found out that modern science with all technologies and advancement did not solve the basic existential problem of suffering. Now many of them are doing a U-Turn and trying develop unique ways of spirituality separate from religion. Again proving that conscious experience is more important that empirical knowledge.

    So then we go back to what we are, we are conscious beings, all sentient life is filled with consciousness, all the major Vedic traditions live their whole existence around this simple principle. And all in the variety of expression will agree that God is consciousness, what that consciousness is is again something bigger than our self ( our present understanding of who we are ), this brings wonder and investigation to the sadhaka.

    So God exists but within consciousness, and that is the final frontier of investigation for both the Scientist and the Religious people.

    ys

    md
    Last edited by markandeya 108 dasa; 05 February 2015 at 01:55 PM.

  7. #57

    Re: Prove God exists, how?

    Namaste Md,

    Very nice post, thank you for that you have put a smile upon my face and warmed my heart a few degrees; which is much needed as it is rather cold were I am at the moment.

    If I might add just a little to your offering; Water boils at 100 only at one specific atmospheric pressure, so this "100" is entirely relative to its own frame of reference and as such is not very objective, in fact rather circumstantial.
    Unfortunately occidental science tends to look for happiness in the bottom of bottles; be they alcohol or drugs; always in bottles.
    Now that said, mathematicians they find their pleasure in Klein bottles which is a whole other kettle of fish; if you will excuse me the carnivorous fishy pun.

    I don't think you can put God in a bottle and label it, so sciences might have to leave its God shelf empty and put it down to math ...

    "Scientist" might perhaps concentrate on proving that it is not the fruit of scientific objectivity that is causing our little Kline bottle to collapse ecologicaly. Not an acusation; just an interesting proof to tackle before moving on to any higher philosophy.

    Lovely to read you.
    Last edited by Mana; 05 February 2015 at 09:44 AM.
    8i8

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    Re: Prove God exists, how?

    Vannakkam: Reading it over again, I just wonder if we were any help at all to the OP. It was his last post on this forum. Hopefully he and his son haven't grown apart over it.

    Aum Namasivaya

  9. #59

    Re: Prove God exists, how?

    Namaste Em,

    Quite; it would seem that Vrindavan is timid in conversational matters, having started a great thread.
    Having grown up in a family with very strong scientific roots, devout atheists; I am naturally drawn to the subject. It is one that can also bring parents and children together when it is properly understood; the epitome of sin, is to my mind, the notion of the elderly eating the youth that they might live longer; Be that financially or spiritually.

    Perhaps The Ops child did not believe in their specific portrayal of God; having them selves a more advanced understanding in these matters. Our path is not defined by our immediate surroundings, neither is the definition of our understanding. The connection between the generations, or, the lack there of, is the spirit of something much greater than the self.

    Perhaps Vrindavan is more interested in e commerce than God? links to a respectable site such as hdf will up your traffic from Gods like Google. Their homepage looks more like a book of links than a website ... Just saying, amazon and ebay?

    http://easss.com/
    Last edited by Mana; 06 February 2015 at 04:16 AM.
    8i8

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    Re: Prove God exists, how?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vrindavan View Post
    hello,

    Answering my son's question.

    My son think people believing in God is not Science and something not proved.
    Namaste Vrindavan Ji,

    This may not be the news you want to hear. It wont be possible to prove the existence of God to someone who does not want to believe.


    Your son may have to figure this out by himself. Hindus are allowed to have questions of these nature and explore and find an answer themselves.


    Proof is deduced either by experimentation & repeatability , or by logical deduction.


    First part involves engaging our senses , and they are known for false reporting. If someone observes the sun rising & setting , their senses will report that sun goes around the case. Most of the world believed so for a long time. Anyone stating otherwise was ridiculed or even killed. Our eyes do not see the full spectrum of light , our ears do not hear the full spectrum of sound and not everything that exists is touchable. Such is the state of our senses. So , goodluck employing experimentation for proof.


    For logical deduction , you proceed from known to unknown in a step by step fashion. Even this will be futile , as told by sages in Kena upanishad.


    “There the eye goes not, nor words, nor mind. We know not, we cannot understand, how He can be explained: He is above the known and he is above the unknown. Thus have we heard from the ancient sages who explained this truth to us.” - For someone unwilling to believe , even this will look like a play of words!


    Let him grow with free thinking , guide him for a healthy life style with a vigorous mind & body. Rest will fall in place by themselves.

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