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Thread: I am not sure if any one could answer my question. However let me try.

  1. #1
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    Question I am not sure if any one could answer my question. However let me try.

    Namaste HDF

    I am not sure if any one could answer my question. However let me try.

    In a hypothetical situation let us assume that an innocent dharmic person is harassed or raped or punished for no fault of the person. eg Nirbhaya, Delhi Rape Victim.

    Assume the victim seek the help of law of land for justice. Assume that the opposite party (tormentor) buy the judgement in his favour using money and muscle power.

    No one can deny that this type of incidences doesn't happen in India or any other country.

    Why the innocent guy should undergo the hardships ? Probably his bad Karma. Fair enough. But do we know anything about our accrued Karma. NO.

    Then on what basis we can accept the ordeal as our fate? If we don't know our accrued Karma how do we know we are fighting against injustice ?

    Lets us extrapolate this.

    Kasab killed many. He was sentenced to death. But what is the use of that who lost their loved ones or the ones who were injured?

    If it was their fate, then why should Kasab be punished. Kasab was playing the role assigned by the law of Karma. Isn't it.

    We can say many reasons but can we convince ourselves that Kasab was right? If Kasab wasn't right then why should innocent be punished?

    As you read there could atleast 10 innocent people are being assaulted and their fight for justice might be meeting failure. Why this element of confusion.

    What Sanaatana Dharma has got to say about this situation .

    Please don't share your opinion. If you can solve the puzzle by citing quotes from our scriptures it would be thought provoking
    Anirudh...

  2. #2

    Re: I am not sure if any one could answer my question. However let me try.

    Dear Anirudh ji,
    Namasthe!

    Karma theory provides a model for explanation. It can neither be proven nor disproved. Its value is only in the explanation it provides. What is the karma model ?

    1. There is purushartha, human effort.
    2. All actions have effects, but the result is accrued when the time is ripe.
    For example i plant a mango tree and water it ... i get the fruit when time is ripe.

    So result of an action may be accrued now, or later. The actions for which we are getting the results now are termed "Prarabdha karmas" : Prak-arabdha, already started.

    But we have done several activities, what about those whose results are not yet accrued because the time is not ripe or appropriate as yet ? : they are waiting in backlog : sanchita karmas.

    now ... suppose i am rich and i beat my driver. He cannot do anything because he is dependent, let us say. one way is to say that i did not get the result, karma model says ... the result of that action remains with us ... in the back log to come back to us in due course.

    So ...

    1. Is Kasab's action unfolding of karmic law ? Well its purushartha, human effort, he did it ... action. so it is purushartha.

    2. Why did so many get killed ? Karma model's explanation is some previous action of theirs is giving them this result.

    3. of what use is sentencing of death to kasab to the relatives who lost their loved ones ?
    none perhaps. or may be a little. we do not know how they feel about it.

    4. kasab should be punished because of his purushartha... his human effort. if it were an animal or a child , then that punishment is its prarabdha karma.

    5. kasab was not right, he did wrong action ... purushartha, remember ?

    6. I do not think there is any confusion here. many people remove purushartha or human effort and speak of karma as if it is automatic. !!

    What kind of quotes do you want from this ? I can do so, but i believe the above is fairly obvious. so if you feel the need for specific quotes let me know ill type them up appropriately.

    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

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    Thumbs Up Re: I am not sure if any one could answer my question. However let me try.

    Namaste Silence Speaks Ji

    Thank you very much. What are the scriptures to be studied to understand the law of Karma? I believe in self study. My unflinching faith Shree Raama Chandra Prabhu will appear from no where and guide me to shore.

    I raised this question because when I was an aethist had fought against all odds even though there were no visible hope. Eventually always had succeeded.

    I turned into a believer when I met Shree Raama Chandra Prabhu in my dreams. +Not a one night effect although) It was Shree Raama Chandra Prabhu's decision that I became staunch lover of Shree Raama Chandra Prabhu.

    But for quite a long period of time, my concentrated efforts are failing continuously.

    I feel somewhere I am erring. And Shree Raama Chandra Prabhu is not letting me down completely but not allowing me to reach the shore. I understand clearly, he wants me to find my way. Shree Krishna did the same in Mahaa Bhaaratha war.How many seconds would it have taken to install Justice but He wanted Shree Arjun to decide, take up arms, and install Justice.

    Your explanations has helped me. So I wish to learn and understand where am I missing the game.

    I have decided to change my destiny. No matter the amount of time left I will fight till my last breath.

    Advaita can't be my path but I have high respect for the Shree Shankaraachaaryaa philosophy. So you can quote what ever you think as correct. Thanks to Devotee ji's intervention in "Best Gita Translation" thread I have decided to learn everything but stick to V'Advaita.

    We have to co exist because we are all Hindus. I wont loose anything if I practice assertive humility.

    As a patriotic Bhaarathiya Hindu my moral responsibility is to spread Hinduism and build as many Vishnu temples as possible in my life time besides fulfilling my family responsibilities.

    Thanks again... Expecting that you would share your wisdom.
    Anirudh...

  4. #4

    Re: I am not sure if any one could answer my question. However let me try.

    Dear Anirudh ji,
    Namasthe!

    Sri Adi shankararcharya discusses about Karma model at various places in his Bhasyam (commentaries) [ex Bhagavad Gita Bhasyam , Chandogya Upanishad Bhasyam] etc.

    The most accessible explanation for Karma theory is "Tattva Bodha" a Prakarana Grantha [Treatise on Vedanta, that summarizes the vedantic teaching] towards the end. This text is also one of the first text a vedanta student learns in some traditions.

    Whether you go to the Bhasyas of Shankara directly or Tattvabodha to understand this better ... its advisable to study scriptures systematically under a proper teacher who knows the subject. It is extremely complex to try through self study. So I would suggest that you should study tattvabodha from here:
    http://hinduonline.co/AudioLibrary/D...rthananda.html

    It discusses the topics of vedanta in great detail and very systematically. One's fundamentals have to be solid to appreciate the subject well and this is what these lectures provide.

    The following text covers some of the topics on karma too:
    http://www.arshavidya.org/SiteResour.../KarmaYoga.pdf

    However I would suggest that one should go through the detailed study through Paramarthananda ji's lectures.

    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

  5. #5

    Re: I am not sure if any one could answer my question. However let me try.

    Dear Anirudh ji,


    I too had a similar series of dreams of Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa which transformed my view permanently. I understand how they can take effect on our personality.

    I am a devotee of Sri Hanuman.

    Advaita, I would like to mention, is not against Bhakti ... it just takes the student to the highest form of Bhakti which is total Self Surrender. Bhakti is encouraged and highly respected : Vivekachudamani , shankara says : Amongst sadhanas Bhakti is the highest !

    Sri Rama himself talks of highest Jnana in his "Rama Gita" where he teaches Lakshmana and "Sri Rama Hrdhayam" [the heart of Sri Rama] where he teaches Hanuman. So Advaita and Bhakti towards Rama are totally in Sync. Provided one understands Advaita well. Unfortunately , today people think Advaita means "I am God", which is stupid on the face of it ! Proper understanding of Advaita would show us that highest Bhakti and Jnana are one and the same.

    Mira says "The lane of my Lord is very thin, when i am hari is not there and when hari is , i am not there" ...

    Love!
    Silence
    Come up, O Lions, and shake off the delusion that you are a sheep

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    Re: I am not sure if any one could answer my question. However let me try.

    Hello anirudh..

    Kasab will be hanging to death, that was also a part of karma... Each and every action is governed by prakriti.. You can't Change fate even a little bit.

    Vishn's maya is so powerful that even if you know something of the future you can't change it no matter how much you try.
    Hari On!

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    Re: I am not sure if any one could answer my question. However let me try.

    Namaste Silence Speaks ji,

    Thank you very much for those links and explanations.

    I going to out of station but will be following your pooja thread.

    Pranaam ...
    Anirudh...

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    Re: I am not sure if any one could answer my question. However let me try.

    Namaste HLK ji

    Thanks for the reply. In the past have observed contradictory views in your posts.

    So can you explain your views along with scriptural support. I am with an understanding, humans have the ability to change the course of Karma through various means. Also they have the free will to decide and find what is best for them.

    Quote Originally Posted by hinduism♥krishna View Post
    Hello anirudh..

    Kasab will be hanging to death, that was also a part of karma... Each and every action is governed by prakriti.. You can't Change fate even a little bit.

    Vishn's maya is so powerful that even if you know something of the future you can't change it no matter how much you try.
    Anirudh...

  9. #9
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    Re: I am not sure if any one could answer my question. However let me try.

    Namaste Anirudh,

    Quote Originally Posted by Anirudh View Post
    Why the innocent guy should undergo the hardships ? Probably his bad Karma. Fair enough. But do we know anything about our accrued Karma. NO.

    Then on what basis we can accept the ordeal as our fate? If we don't know our accrued Karma how do we know we are fighting against injustice ?

    Lets us extrapolate this.

    Kasab killed many. He was sentenced to death. But what is the use of that who lost their loved ones or the ones who were injured?

    If it was their fate, then why should Kasab be punished. Kasab was playing the role assigned by the law of Karma. Isn't it.

    We can say many reasons but can we convince ourselves that Kasab was right? If Kasab wasn't right then why should innocent be punished?

    As you read there could atleast 10 innocent people are being assaulted and their fight for justice might be meeting failure. Why this element of confusion.

    What Sanaatana Dharma has got to say about this situation .

    Please don't share your opinion. If you can solve the puzzle by citing quotes from our scriptures it would be thought provoking
    I don't know what scriptural quotes you are seeking. There are scriptural quotes e.g. in certain PurANs on what happens to you when you do certain things etc. but most of them are not reliable in my understanding. Bhagwad Gita ssays, "Karma/Akarma/Vikarma should be understood well. The way Karma works is difficult to understand." I can share with you my understanding which is based on reading various scriptures and on teachings of my Guru. I find that logical and that works for me.

    It is by God's plan that you don't know your past Karma otherwise, the whole world will become a place of great confusion and will perish. Th world is designed in a way that everyone believes that he/she is starting with a clean slate and that gives him/her strength to act with full potential in the present birth without being loaded with memories of past Karmas. In fact, past Karma is not as important as our present Karma is. If I am aware of all my past Karma earned through my hundreds of births in past lives, I will die with the agony of those memories ... I won't be able to overcome the haunting feelings of those Karmas. Even if I have good Karmas only, I may start taking things for granted in this life my this life will get wasted. If all the memories are allowed to survive then I may not be able to live this life because my mother in this birth could be wife in my past life. My son might be my enemy in my last birth etc. Just imagine what these memories could do to people if they were fresh in our memories.

    Moreover, the spell of MAyA would break and the world would end. How ? Because you will know why/when/how a thing is going to happen and how you should act. So, the memories of one birth are not allowed to be carried over to another by the grace of God and for continuity of MAyA. These memories won't disturb you and the world when you are Self-realised/God-realised. So, one who is interested gets memories of his past lives refreshed on Self-realisation/God-realisation.

    These people who come to know the Truth behind the veil of MAyA come to us in the garb of Gurus and tell us what is right and what is wrong and we should follow the paths shown by them. The scriptures like Vedas/VedAnta are revealed by such Gurus and we should follow them. Why not authentic scripture tells us pin-pointedly how the Karma works ? This is because how the Karma would fructify depends on many circumstances ... e.g. past Karma of the person, past Karma of society, present Karma of the person, present Karma of the society, environment etc. These factors are so much varying that no one can exactly predict the effect of past Karma. Some may be able to burn all their bad-Karmas by attaining Self-realisation.

    This is why Lord Krishna says, "Gahana Karmano gatih" ===> How Karma acts is difficult to understand.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  10. #10

    Re: I am not sure if any one could answer my question. However let me try.

    Pranams,

    This is an important subject, let us not forget the words of Sri Krsna in Gita, on the battlefield of Kurukshetra, that even if one commits adharmic activities previously, if he then takes shelter then he will be protected, this is His promise, this should not be exploited.

    Lord is love, and by turning our face back to His love then His Love will emanate within our hearts and we see that He is all pervasive, within all things, the more we have confidence and conscious awareness of this, then the more this will gain power in our experience, and the closer to union we will get.

    Recently I was listening to a lecture by Sayadaw U Thuzana on Nibbana, and he tells a story when 500 of the Thatgatata disciples went to practice in a village, and they became very fearful of wrathful Deities, it was disturbing their practice, so they went back to Sri Buddha Muni spotless in realization, and sought out His advice and council and He advised them to develop Metta Bhavana of the divine abiding's of Brahma saturated in loving kindness for all beings to counter the effect of the wrathful Deities. It worked, God will relate to us how we see him, if we see him as wrathful then He will be, if we see him as Love then he will be.

    Ys

    Md
    Last edited by markandeya 108 dasa; 26 November 2014 at 05:56 AM.

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