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Thread: Shirdi Sai Baba

  1. #41
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    Re: Fake Baba

    Namaste,

    Off-topic but,

    Quote Originally Posted by Anirudh View Post
    You should watch a Hindi movie Swadesh. Free downloads with English sub title are available
    I admire the suggestion, but in the grand scheme of things, such sentimental movies are made as guaranteed box office hits. You don't see Indians settled overseas suddenly packing up and coming back to India in droves. The first Bollywood movie I saw with this kind of theme was 'Poorav Pashchim' many decades ago. And there have been others celebrating the same sentiment. But people normally follow the trail which guarantees them a decent meal at the end of the day. People who never left Bharat are blessed in a way. So, celebrate your good luck.

    Pranam.
    Last edited by Believer; 10 December 2014 at 09:36 AM.

  2. #42

    Re: Shirdi Sai Baba

    Dear Anirudh,

    I really would like to answer you in a broad sense and try to capture as far as I understand the importance of understanding avadhuta, but I am a bit worried about being misunderstood. You have your right to your opinion, you may know more than me. But if we can see beyond the conventions and study the spiritual attitude ( vision ) of these mystics which have surfaced in many traditions we may see a a vital link in absolute consciousness, which may seem to be renounced but is more of a state that lives fully in this world but is of no attachment to the world, hence the beauty of the 24 gurus of Sri Dattreya and also the profound teachings of Sri Milarepa Muni. We can also bring into the equation of great Avadhuta's such as Sri Ramana Maharshi, who lived perfectly connected to his surroundings but also in a state of pure transcendence. Total unabridged non ownership.

    I worry a bit to say this because of the obvious sensitivities between Hindu's and Muslims, and it is certainly not my place to get involved, even though in the west we have a building crisis ( if we are to believe the media). But one thing to look at regarding why Muslims do not have Shirdi Sai Baba image is due to their religious practice, they do not even have any images of Prophet Mohamed as images are considered Idol worship and it is forbidden.

    Before the invasion of Bharata which is also a complex study the previous relationship between Persia and Bharata was in fact quite healthy, and the two cultures would learn things from each other and traded with ease. So not all the the Historical relations are as strained as they have been in the last few centuries. So there maybe some who try to establish this in the form of social reforming within religious and cultural comparisons, surely such people have a noble approach to dissolve hatred, as hatred verses hatred only causes more hatred and we end up in a mess. Trust me English people are well aware of these things, as now we have an open field of debate dealing with all the problems of history that are surfacing in our new multi-cultural society, so we are also facing similar types of issues.

    Religion in the main has more or less failed Western Civilization, and the input of Eastern Philosophies and practices is certainly very welcomed, we may well model our own religion in a sense, which is now falling more into the category of spiritualism, this has great set backs but also has great benefits, it just needs some balance and time and its only really in the last 50 years that it has gained momentum, and in the last 100 years that it was really first introduced.

    We may also want to take into account that Shirdi Sai Baba was also considered a Sufi and Fakhir by Muslims and even these types of practitioners were persecuted, humiliated, tortured and killed in the middle east, and India has been a great place of refuge for these types of mystics. There is a great history of ascetics who turned their backs on the conventional way of life, turning away from societies norms, even giving up religion which is based on ritualistic and mechanical worship, just look at Sri Sukadeva( another avadhuta) son Srila Vyasa. Bharata is rich in people not giving a hoot about conventions and religion and society's norms, which are usually only stalls in the market place set up for haggling. We are after all seeking something much higher, something much more profound.

    I am not so much into the talk of fakes gurus, obviously some are more qualified than others, we each have to be careful and sensible and have a good foundation in our spiritual life, then we can broaden our search, and as it is said in Avadhuta Gita, would one shun a diamond even if it has fallen in a dirty place, Chanakya Pandit also said the same thing that gold is dug out of the mud. So some wisdom is needed, to be able to discriminate and not get taken in by everything we hear but also to learn how to extract the essence, this is the true value of trying to understand the avadhuta, who may stand supreme when it comes to standing above the conventions of this world, at least they are teaching something profound.

    In fact the mind of the sadhu is to me my main study in religion, we have so many identifications, but mostly they lead to unhealthy states of mind and cause division, we love division, rather than harmonizing in true balance the wonderful world of diversity, which I see as expressions of the Absolute. J Krishnamurti has a point, Terrence Mckenna has a point, when they say culture is disease, but do they have the absolute truth I think not, but some good can be taken into consideration, so we do not see things as fake if we broaden our view and understand God consciousness in its full array and manifestation. Again this is where the study of Avadhuta reigns supreme.

    There are so many teachings, advaita, dvaita, Vishishtadvaita, Buddhism Daoism and the whole show all complementary to each other, I would also like to add that each of these traditions will have Advadhuta's, if approached in the right way, and by the right way mean contemplation, each level of teaching will reach a level of the Jiva's condition, which is vast and complex, as Jivas are functioning of different levels, and for me the comparative studies are all like rocks in moving pot that rub against each other to make the final surface smooth like silk. Our responsibility is to understand our level, our purification and not project that subjective experience heavily upon another, if we do that we are part of the problem, both to ourselves and others. I would even go as far to say that many of the Acaryas are serving a purpose, and may not even be speaking according their true level, but rather trying to realign things when the Dharmic ways has gone to far off track. There is no dogma in the best teachings. The ultimate goal is to dissolve all views which are only mental constructs, although they can serve a purpose if approached in the right way

    Some may see this view as some type of universalism, but I beg the differ and a good in depth study of Sage Nagarjuna( another Avadhuta)who talks about the dependance of characteristic and non characteristics maybe be able to see what I mean.

    Ys

    Md

  3. #43

    Re: Shirdi Sai Baba

    Namaste,
    Quote Originally Posted by Anirudh View Post

    Due to many members of HDF not having English as their first language, comprehension skills are not as advanced, let alone proficient, as we hope they can be.

    Prejudice to counter perceived Prejudice... Good Luck :-)
    Well, think about it: We have members from Europe and India, and from areas in-between. We also have members from surrounding areas of both regions, along with members from the States. And communication on HDF is done primarily in English, but not everyone speaks English as their first language; therefore, comprehension issues are bound to occur. It's nothing to really worry about, and to point that out is not being prejudiced.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anirudh View Post
    Secondly the Iskcon founder :
    I don't call this guy as fake but it cant be denied that he twisted Hinduism to suit his teachings and to attract Christians. Why he never thought to do the same things with Bangladeshi Muslim is beyond me.
    What was he supposed to do with Bangladeshi Muslims? Spread Gaudiya Vaishnavism in Bangladesh, instead of spreading it among Westerners? How could this have been accomplished in a setting that is inherently anti-Hindu, in a land where mUrti-s are desecrated every year during Navratri? And how did he twist Hinduism? Wouldn't the culprit be Gaudiya Vaishnavism itself instead of Prabhupada, since what he taught was pretty much taught to him by his guru? What is the main contention with Prabhupada? I can understand disagreements on Gaudiya Vaishnavism, based purely on theological grounds, but to single out Prabhupada seems too arbitrary.
    Quote Originally Posted by markandeya 108 dasa View Post
    Before the invasion of Bharata which is also a complex study the previous relationship between Persia and Bharata was in fact quite healthy, and the two cultures would learn things from each other and traded with ease.
    When Alexandros invaded Persia, Darius sent a letter to Porus asking for help to push back the Greek forces. Porus declined. When Alexandros came to invade Bharat, Porus fought back fiercely. As per Greek sources, though not objectively credible, Porus was defeated and joined the Greek forces as a tributary ally. Porus should have joined forces with Darius, instead of waiting it out only to lose and then become a tributary of a foreign element fighting his own native brethren. But then the gods shone their light and gave us Chanakyacharya. Jai Ma Bharati!
    Last edited by Sudas Paijavana; 10 December 2014 at 06:01 AM.

  4. #44
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    Re: Shirdi Sai Baba

    Namaste MD ji

    There is no use in a unproductive discussion, also will be useless attempt to change people who are hell-bent to follow or promote or glorify fake guys.

    Thanks ....
    Anirudh...

  5. #45

    Re: Shirdi Sai Baba

    Pranams Sudas Paijavana Ji

    Quote Originally Posted by Sudas Paijavana View Post
    Namaste,

    When Alexandros invaded Persia, Darius sent a letter to Porus asking for help to push back the Greek forces. Porus declined. When Alexandros came to invade Bharat, Porus fought back fiercely. As per Greek sources, though not objectively credible, Porus was defeated and joined the Greek forces as a tributary ally. Porus should have joined forces with Darius, instead of waiting it out only to lose and then become a tributary of a foreign element fighting his own native brethren. But then the gods shone their light and gave us Chanakyacharya. Jai Ma Bharati!
    There certainly is great amount of research I would like to do in this area, but I can only study so much

    I havent done to much total study on the Histories only things that I have come across in my readings over the years, mostly from philosophical works. It certainly is though a worthy study, and how the Greeks have been heavily influenced by Indian thought, both Vedic and Buddhist and the great learning centre of Alexandria is perhaps a key study to those influences. But sadly history or the accurate study of history is very difficult as many things have been erased.

    A lot of the sciences that are traced back to Greece had their influences from India and much has been corrupted.

    Its is a study that I will do at some point in the future.

    Dear Anirudh Ji

    Fair enough

    Ys

    Md

  6. #46

    Re: Shirdi Sai Baba

    Quote Originally Posted by markandeya 108 dasa View Post
    but also to learn how to extract the essence, this is the true value of trying to understand the avadhuta, who may stand supreme when it comes to standing above the conventions of this world, at least they are teaching something profound.

    Again this is where the study of Avadhuta reigns supreme.

    There are so many teachings, advaita, dvaita, Vishishtadvaita, Buddhism Daoism and the whole show all complementary to each other, I would also like to add that each of these traditions will have Advadhuta's, if approached in the right way, and by the right way mean contemplation, each level of teaching will reach a level of the Jiva's condition, which is vast and complex, as Jivas are functioning of different levels. I would even go as far to say that many of the Acaryas are serving a purpose, and may not even be speaking according their true level, but rather trying to realign things when the Dharmic ways has gone to far off track. There is no dogma in the best teachings. The ultimate goal is to dissolve all views which are only mental constructs, although they can serve a purpose if approached in the right way

    Ys

    Md
    Hare KRshNa ~

    I agree. We have something to learn from all these masters. Years ago I said something on the lines of "the acharyas have each only revealed the partial truths that complement each other " and that got me in trouble with a follower of Madhvacharya, but the compassionate acharya himself forgave.

    Indeed, the avadhUt has mesmerized me for years. Particularly GhanashyAm as GhanashyAm and then the same GhanashyAm as an avadhUta -- though seemingly polar opposites they live within each other. This my Beloved Gurudeva has very graciously shown.

    Here is an HDF thread on the Datta sampradAya, some posts on it :

    On DattAtreya the avadhUt

    The various philosophies (vishishtadvaita , advaita) explained with some consolidation -- ShripAd Shrivallabh CharitrAmrut
    If you want to understand the supersoul-connection between ShripAd Shrivallabh, Swami Samartha, Gajanan Maharaj and Shirdi Sai, read ShripAd Shrivallabh CharitrAmrut where ShripAd had predicted the arrival of Shirdi Sai.

    ---------
    All these things have their place, the avadhUt gItA has its place.

    At the end of the day however, mhAro ri giridhara gopAl _/\_ dUsarA na koyA _/\_
    || Shri KRshNArpaNamastu ||

  7. #47

    Re: Shirdi Sai Baba

    Pranams smaranam

    Great Links and post

    I am guessing there will not be an English translation of this

    http://www.scribd.com/doc/46716404/S...tramru-Marathi

    Ys

    Md

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