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Thread: Approaching Materials?

  1. #11
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    Re: Approaching Materials?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalicharan Tuvij View Post
    Namaste,


    OK.
    Keynote: "approaching materials" in contrast to "dissociation from materials".


    My approach is typically to get max out of the material in the min time. And then use that "yield" to later create "more material" than was present earlier. That is, observe, learn, extract, reapply, expand. In the word "Prithvi", prith means "expand". So that is a given (the mandate to expansion); the rest is purushartha.


    By spiritual conduct, 'course, you mean the steps: observe, learn and extract. But that leaves out: to reapply and to expand. Larger the base is, the greater the scope for reaching out even higher (Sri Aravind's words). In terms of the individual (when does "moksha" happen?), and also in terms of the contribution towards the progress of society.
    For example, at personal level, at homes and such, the material we use is solely for our own advancement (spiritual in the end), and the material that we use at workspace is meant for the advancement of society at large - even there the progress is ultimately of consciousness even though achieved by the "expansion of the possibilities of the material". If one understands these two, he will not waste his time.

    If we are only into observe, learn and extract, and don't think/ know about reapply and expand, then basically we are waiting for our next births when we will be getting "better (expanded) personalities" as a result of the past karma.

    The whole 9th mandala of the RgVeda talks about the flow of Immortality - of Soma - which is from remotest of the realms to finally ending in the material; result? Expansion, Amaratva.


    The bank balance is one of the indicators (not the only ones though) of the amount of "extraction" that has been done by the individual. So instead of feeling sorry or embarrassed, one should be proud of his accomplishment, and again try to "reapply" the "extraction" to get even more "expanded" results.
    So giving alms to a beggar may be thought of as flimsy by someone who knows that his work is doing a better job at alleviating in a more systematic manner the poverty of the beggar (though not directly visible).


    These are very nicely put thoughts, and certainly has the hallmarks of a Hindu. Some issues raised there are very fundamental. For many big industrialists (heirs of rich parents, mainly) they have no idea, neither talent, about how to invest their money. So in their case their bank balances are not accumulated purushartha but only a way to control poor humans. So they end up trying extract more from the material (and also poor beings) with the aim in mind to not give anything away. But this is not how humanity progresses, so the stupid in the end end up losing all their money to intelligent people. Some other rich people are smarter: they use their money as investment in intelligent people's ideas (inventions, patents, etc); even under this model Prithvi expands.
    The problem before a civilised society is to reduce waste of time in letting stupid rich people survive for longer.

    The present house is the father's purushartha, not of son's. Let him see that, and also your future vision wherein you intend to "expand" it further in what way. Of course if you continue to be successful, you will end up being a king, and the world will also rejoice with you because it is Dharmically (eternally) done. On the question of wife, I guess she needs to be an equal partner in the venture.

    Apart from said earlier, the point is to compete with the rest - apply yourself, use your "extraction" - your vision your body your acquired powers to the best - make a dash.


    Beyond this, as you have correctly said, requires the personal touch of a Guru. But I never had any, and yo, I'm kinda okay..

    KT
    Namaste, KT

    Firstly thankyou for your clear-cut reply, and you identified exactly what I was trying to propound in the original post. Impressive.

    ''If we are only into observe, learn and extract, and don't think/ know about reapply and expand, then basically we are waiting for our next births when we will be getting "better (expanded) personalities" as a result of the past karma.''

    I think that is a particularly potent point.

    Is this 'reapplication' an interpretation you have drawn from the vedas, or something that is explicitly stated? Either way I think it has phenomenal merit as it is something that aligns with the current capitalistic framework.

    What is 'Amartva?'

    I do like what you have explained. It is practical.

  2. #12

    Re: Approaching Materials?

    Quote Originally Posted by IcyCosmic View Post
    Namaste, KT

    Firstly thankyou for your clear-cut reply, and you identified exactly what I was trying to propound in the original post. Impressive.

    ''If we are only into observe, learn and extract, and don't think/ know about reapply and expand, then basically we are waiting for our next births when we will be getting "better (expanded) personalities" as a result of the past karma.''

    I think that is a particularly potent point.

    Is this 'reapplication' an interpretation you have drawn from the vedas, or something that is explicitly stated? Either way I think it has phenomenal merit as it is something that aligns with the current capitalistic framework.

    What is 'Amartva?'

    I do like what you have explained. It is practical.
    Namaste IC,

    I am glad too that such discussion came up.
    My thoughts here are though based on very literal interpretation of the Veda.

    Amaratva, literally "Immortality", is the state when we become Everything, and death loses its meaning : there is nothing to die/ birth and nowhere "else" to go. But before that one has to go through multiple cycles of births and deaths. One can circumvent the scenario of the necessity of physical births and deaths, if one utilises Yagya.

    Lord Agni is very closely connected to Yagya. He is more often said to be Hotr ritvija (priest) of Yagya. Now, there are three other ritvija-s also: udgātr, brahmā and adhvaryu; but Hotr is the ritvija who who kind of combines the functionalities of the other three within himself.

    Vaiśya varna, therefore, is not a separate Varna per se, but is in a way the "all" Varna that is a BrāhmaNa, a Kshatriya, and a Shudra, all at once. (I suppose in a Vedic society there would be 75% Vaisya; speculating ).

    The concept of Money is just one of the many used as the vehicle of this particular Yagya. This subject is indeed a fascinating one, even from a purely academic pov, and does need a dispassionate study in order to understand holistically the nature, movement and motivation of money.
    Things to remember:

    1. Life = yajña
    2. Depth of Āstika knowledge is directly proportional
    to the richness of Sanskrit it is written in
    3. Āstika = Bhārata ("east") / Ārya ("west")
    4. Varṇa = tripartite division of Vedic polity
    5. r = c. x²
    where,
    r = realisation
    constant c = intelligence
    variable x = bhakti

  3. #13
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    Re: Approaching Materials?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kalicharan Tuvij View Post
    Namaste IC,

    I am glad too that such discussion came up.
    My thoughts here are though based on very literal interpretation of the Veda.

    Amaratva, literally "Immortality", is the state when we become Everything, and death loses its meaning : there is nothing to die/ birth and nowhere "else" to go. But before that one has to go through multiple cycles of births and deaths. One can circumvent the scenario of the necessity of physical births and deaths, if one utilises Yagya.

    Lord Agni is very closely connected to Yagya. He is more often said to be Hotr ritvija (priest) of Yagya. Now, there are three other ritvija-s also: udgātr, brahmā and adhvaryu; but Hotr is the ritvija who who kind of combines the functionalities of the other three within himself.

    Vaiśya varna, therefore, is not a separate Varna per se, but is in a way the "all" Varna that is a BrāhmaNa, a Kshatriya, and a Shudra, all at once. (I suppose in a Vedic society there would be 75% Vaisya; speculating ).

    The concept of Money is just one of the many used as the vehicle of this particular Yagya. This subject is indeed a fascinating one, even from a purely academic pov, and does need a dispassionate study in order to understand holistically the nature, movement and motivation of money.
    Namaste KT,

    Interesting indeed.

    Can you elaborate on the Vaisya varna being an ''all-in-one''. This is the first time I'm hearing something along these lines.

    Do you have any other thoughts on the acquisition of money, besides the reapplication ideal?

  4. #14

    Re: Approaching Materials?

    Quote Originally Posted by IcyCosmic View Post
    Namaste KT,

    Interesting indeed.

    Can you elaborate on the Vaisya varna being an ''all-in-one''. This is the first time I'm hearing something along these lines.

    Do you have any other thoughts on the acquisition of money, besides the reapplication ideal?
    Namaste IC,

    Any business-venture has the capacity to grow into, what we can call as, a "shadow state". So even though the "backbone" of the whole society is constituted as in the vital framework of Legislature-Executive-Judiciary, the Business is what provides with everything else, taking support of the three.

    But apart from that dependency, the venture is a state unto itself. Even equipped with, when fully grown, its own complementary Legis.-Exec.-Jud.

    One important point, I am no way equating brāhmin-kshatriya-shudra completely with legis.-exec.-judis., since the Varna-s have a far greater application. For example, in my view the Army is a component of the brāhmin varna; and so on. For the time being, however, interesting as it may sound (even pressing; I was recently PM'd by a member to write on this more), we can go slow on this topic. Not long ago, I also mentioned a recent Hollywood movie which has explored the this to some extent, even though it was not clear on the Vaisya concept which is a Varna most suitable to people with having allround capacities.

    On the question of money, we can appreciate the already known fact that it is understood as "debt" or ऋण. This word in Sanskrit means "negative" as in negative numbers. We know number system is Vedic.

    If the base 10 of the number system reflects the 10 avatara-s of Lord Vishnu, or the 10 Rudra-s of the 11th - Lord Shiva, the presence of negative numbers - which are imaginary entities, signifies the integration with the Yagya idea.

    So everything in the physical world could be "mirrored" into the imaginary world of the negatives. Metaphysically, to the Rsis this efficacy denoted the "coming together of Dyo and Prithvi". Yagya itself, the centre of Prithvi, is the Zero which is both a positive and a negative number.

    Indeed, like Yagya, the very existence of money is scary - subject to certain conditions. In civilised countries gradually we have seen that money - and its movement - have taken on the speed of light - possible, because of the inherent mathematical essence of money (we know how to do maths with negatives, right).

    In barbaric nations, their currencies have met with continuous failures, some are hugely dependent on dollar import.

    So to come back where we started - money is debt. It is the debt the rest of the society (with some semblance of Dharma at least) owes to me.

    Will I misuse that noble obligation? Or, will the society renege on the promise made?

    Well, when Hell breaks lose..
    Things to remember:

    1. Life = yajña
    2. Depth of Āstika knowledge is directly proportional
    to the richness of Sanskrit it is written in
    3. Āstika = Bhārata ("east") / Ārya ("west")
    4. Varṇa = tripartite division of Vedic polity
    5. r = c. x²
    where,
    r = realisation
    constant c = intelligence
    variable x = bhakti

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