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Thread: giving alms for begger

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    Question giving alms for begger

    Namaste to all members!
    we all know the virtue of dāna or charity, I try to explain my question shortly-
    So my question is giving alms to begger is right, I always have sympathy for begger and want to give him some alms but I hear from somebody that if the begger is physically strong then it is not suitable to give him alms as we encourage him to be begger in that way, means he has to do some work like others do, so what is right give him alms or not or try to give him job somewhere (small jobs like servant or suitable to his occupation or passion) if possible?
    -Pranams
    Aasato ma sat gamay
    tamaso ma jotirgamay
    mrityorma amrutamgamay
    (Bring me from asat to sat, bring me from darkness (ignorance) to light (knowledge), bring me from death to immortality)
    Om Namah Shivay
    Om Vishnave Namah

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    Re: giving alms for begger

    Namaste
    I struggled with this question for a long time as well, however, gita speaks of Dana and now i take my direction from that. In chapter 17 it is mentioned that Dana is of three kinds, for dana to be satvik it has to be given with the spirit of not wanting anything in return ie not expecting a favour back and it has to be given to a worthy person.

    Who is a worthy person? Use your judgment. If the person reaks of alcohol and drugs or asking for money due to laziness then giving alms to them is probably not satvik.
    satay

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    Thumbs Up Re: giving alms for begger

    Quote Originally Posted by satay View Post
    Namaste
    I struggled with this question for a long time as well, however, gita speaks of Dana and now i take my direction from that. In chapter 17 it is mentioned that Dana is of three kinds, for dana to be satvik it has to be given with the spirit of not wanting anything in return ie not expecting a favour back and it has to be given to a worthy person.

    Who is a worthy person? Use your judgment. If the person reaks of alcohol and drugs or asking for money due to laziness then giving alms to them is probably not satvik.
    Thank you for your reply satay ji,
    you understand what I mean some beggers begs and use that money in their addictions, that's why I am thinking is we do right by giving them alms,
    so by your post I conclude that we shouldn't give alms to unworthy person, giving charity to orphans, physically challenged people is acceptable but not for physically strong and lazy person...
    -Pranam
    Aasato ma sat gamay
    tamaso ma jotirgamay
    mrityorma amrutamgamay
    (Bring me from asat to sat, bring me from darkness (ignorance) to light (knowledge), bring me from death to immortality)
    Om Namah Shivay
    Om Vishnave Namah

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    Re: giving alms for begger

    Dear Satay.,

    How are you? I have touch pointed this question in one of the reply for Virajaji! People seva as Mahesa Seva!

    Dhan

    An assurance unto all creatures with love and affection and abstention from every kind of injury, acts of kindness and favor done to a person in distress, whatever gifts are made without the giver's ever thinking of them as gifts made by him, constitute, O chief of Bharata's race, the highest and best of gifts (dāna)

    Biksha


    bhiksha is the meal served to a sadhu or monk when that person visits a devout Hindu household

    Three important Dhan that every human can adopt to are

    Vidya Dhan, Abhya Dhan and Anna Dhan. (Education, Shelter and Food - with no expectation of any sort of reward in return - as this act constitute as one of the Dharma).

    Other Dhan are very specific like GouDhan (Cow), Vrshaba Dhan, Swarna Dhan, Punya Dhan etc. are very strict in terms who should give these and to whom and also at what time. ( Kshetra, Kala etc multiply the punya of giving - Garuda purana has detailed explanation of these dhans and how to do)

    So the first three types, Vidya, Abhaya and Anna also comes with strict regulations and here are my understanding...

    1. Anyone can give Dhan but they can only give it to those who are "eligible" - eligibility here does not translate to plain 'have nots'. For Bill gates, rest of the human kind can be considered poor but he cannot go and give money to everyone to make all them rich. Thats not Dhan. Showing off our wealth is not the idea of dhan in first place.

    The one who is the receiver should strive for a Dharmic life - and your Dhan only fulfills the material need of that striving individual.

    The one who gives should not give something for removing their sins, reward for the next life, mere sentiments, or show off etc. The giver also must be a Dharmic person who knows Dharma or at least follows a Dharmic Person, as in a Guru and does Dhana by such Guru's Advice. ( King's were the greatest example of this qualification

    Giving any of the above to a undeserved, constitute as papa and acquire more sin only. Giving money to drunkard will not just ruin the drunkard but his family too. Someone who is starving after playing full week of gambling does not require your bowl of food - unless such offering stops them from continuing the reason for their hunger. Forgiving is an great act but forgiving the undeserved is also a big mistake and adharmic.

    So, to be righteous we should strictly observe whom we share material things and grace of Asta Lakshmi - and must make sure it doesn't reach the undeserved or ALakshmi!

    Dhan done by the Dharmic becomes punya and this punya counters the Papa! Dhan done by the Dharmic to someone who is already dharmic and custodian of dharma multiplies this Punya - like giving alms, dhan to Brahmins etc. are examples of such Dhan.

    Hare Krshna!
    Last edited by grames; 14 December 2014 at 05:09 PM.

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    Re: giving alms for begger

    Namaste,

    I am trying to reconcile the following,

    Quote Originally Posted by satay View Post
    for dana to be satvik it has to be given with the spirit of not wanting anything in return ie not expecting a favour back .....
    Quote Originally Posted by grames View Post
    Dhan done by the Dharmic becomes punya and this punya counters the Papa!
    Kahlil Gibran's following thoughts about a begger are never too far from me,

    "When God let a person drink from the ocean of life, who am I to deny him a few coins?"

    So, I am constantly torn between not giving charity to an undeserving person and being seen as judgmental in who gets my charity. Deserving person always wins out, but there is always that nagging thought, why does the other person deserve less from me? Is his condition his own doing? If he is condemned by his past karma to be in that state, should I punish him further by withholding a few coins from him? By adding to his misery am I being petty and accruing bad karma myself?

    Try as we may, there are no easy answers.

    Pranam

    PS, Canadians, a certain mayor in your biggest city who was caught and admitted to doing drugs, has been reelected to the city council. He did drugs with the salary provided to him by you, the tax payers. Why be harsh to a down and out person?
    -

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    Re: giving alms for begger

    Namaste.,

    In this world, the choices are infinite and factually the number of individuals who can give are insignificant to the number who "require" help! And we started to have this strong faith that, giving few coins or dollars or rupees will fix someone's problem forever. As i stated, even if you choose the entire number of people who deserve and require your 'dhan', God hasn't given you that much wealth or time or heart. But God has given you another power....

    Add the undeserved to your prayers and pray for them to be eligible and get the grace of God - This is the utmost help.

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    Re: giving alms for begger

    Namaste


    Quote Originally Posted by Believer View Post
    Namaste,

    I am trying to reconcile the following,

    Kahlil Gibran's following thoughts about a begger are never too far from me,

    "When God let a person drink from the ocean of life, who am I to deny him a few coins?"

    -
    I used to be torn due to similar thoughts as yours but the way I recincile them now is that those who reak of alcohol will most probably spend the little money I will give them on their addiction. They don't need money they need help. I cannot provide them that help and leave that business to other more qualified than me and to God.

    When I was young a girl I used to go out with would give a coin or two to anyone who asked her no matter who or how they looked. One day when my friend gave some money to a healthy looking beggar just because she asked for money I couldn't hold it any more and just asked her, why did you give her money, she ldoesnt look like she needs it. My friends reply, "it is really hard to ask someone for help, especially in the form of money. It takes your dignity away and leaves you empty. she asked and I gave. " This answer has stayed with me now for 22 years and I do remember it before giving out money to anyone.

    While most of the time when in doubt I don't hand out money and leave them to God, sometimes I overlook that rule and give just because what she pointed out to me all those years ago.

    For the OP, there is a thread on Dana here http://hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=12654
    satay

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    Re: giving alms for begger

    Namaste SOL,

    Quote Originally Posted by Soul of Light View Post
    Namaste to all members!
    we all know the virtue of dāna or charity, I try to explain my question shortly-
    So my question is giving alms to begger is right, I always have sympathy for begger and want to give him some alms but I hear from somebody that if the begger is physically strong then it is not suitable to give him alms as we encourage him to be begger in that way, means he has to do some work like others do, so what is right give him alms or not or try to give him job somewhere (small jobs like servant or suitable to his occupation or passion) if possible?
    -Pranams
    Please read Bhagwad Gita to get the answer as Satay has very rightly suggested. Somehow, I find that most of our worldly questions are already answered in Bhagwad Gita. Lord Krishna is the greatest among Gurus !

    Daan must be given Only to who deserve and not to undeserving ones. You should ask this question before trying to "give". Why do you want to give ? Who is worthy of this "help" ? What should be given to a particular person who asks for our help is an equally important question to answer before you give.

    "Begging" has been badly (ab)used as a profession. People who can work and earn for themselves but take to begging just because it is so easy to get alms in the name of God, actually need teachings by the hard realities of life and not your money. Yes, if that fellow is going to die and there is an emergency then the same person will be deserving a well considered help but not in ordinary situations. Your alms will encourage him to continue this profession with greater zeal. You are actually driving him to sinful living by your misplaced act of kindness. In some parts of the world, it is not uncommon that Begging Mafias run begging business. They kidnap small children and girls and teach them how to beg. To draw more sympathy from the "kind hearted people" they adopt these sinful acts :

    a) They would break hands/feet of the child or gouge their eyes out as such a child would evoke more sympathetic emotions and get more money in the bargain.

    b) They would kidnap (or hire) infants and give them to young women trained in the art of begging. They would go to people begging with words how her child is hungry and needs feeding immediately or they would ask for themselves portraying how vulnerable they are with a child in this world without a house and a husband. Such children become malnourished and may also die due to being kept hungry to keep crying while begging is in progress.

    c) In such organisations, every child or girl or woman must give pre-decided money to the chief of this business everyday otherwise they would be beaten up badly or won't get anything to eat etc. for hahing failed in the art of begging.

    By giving alms to such people, do you want to be a party to such acts ? Therefore, we need to be very careful while deciding to give. There are millions of people who need our help. There may be such people living near your surroundings. Go and help them. Yes, they may not require just a few pennies but some good amount of money to stand up in their life ... but that is the real help. Throwing a few pennies to some professional begger may give some solace to you but in fact, you are sharing part of the crimes which run because of such misplaced sympathy.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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    Re: giving alms for begger

    Quote Originally Posted by grames View Post
    Dear Satay.,

    How are you? I have touch pointed this question in one of the reply for Virajaji! People seva as Mahesa Seva!

    Dhan

    An assurance unto all creatures with love and affection and abstention from every kind of injury, acts of kindness and favor done to a person in distress, whatever gifts are made without the giver's ever thinking of them as gifts made by him, constitute, O chief of Bharata's race, the highest and best of gifts (dāna)

    Biksha


    bhiksha is the meal served to a sadhu or monk when that person visits a devout Hindu household

    Three important Dhan that every human can adopt to are

    Vidya Dhan, Abhya Dhan and Anna Dhan. (Education, Shelter and Food - with no expectation of any sort of reward in return - as this act constitute as one of the Dharma).

    Other Dhan are very specific like GouDhan (Cow), Vrshaba Dhan, Swarna Dhan, Punya Dhan etc. are very strict in terms who should give these and to whom and also at what time. ( Kshetra, Kala etc multiply the punya of giving - Garuda purana has detailed explanation of these dhans and how to do)

    So the first three types, Vidya, Abhaya and Anna also comes with strict regulations and here are my understanding...

    1. Anyone can give Dhan but they can only give it to those who are "eligible" - eligibility here does not translate to plain 'have nots'. For Bill gates, rest of the human kind can be considered poor but he cannot go and give money to everyone to make all them rich. Thats not Dhan. Showing off our wealth is not the idea of dhan in first place.

    The one who is the receiver should strive for a Dharmic life - and your Dhan only fulfills the material need of that striving individual.

    The one who gives should not give something for removing their sins, reward for the next life, mere sentiments, or show off etc. The giver also must be a Dharmic person who knows Dharma or at least follows a Dharmic Person, as in a Guru and does Dhana by such Guru's Advice. ( King's were the greatest example of this qualification

    Giving any of the above to a undeserved, constitute as papa and acquire more sin only. Giving money to drunkard will not just ruin the drunkard but his family too. Someone who is starving after playing full week of gambling does not require your bowl of food - unless such offering stops them from continuing the reason for their hunger. Forgiving is an great act but forgiving the undeserved is also a big mistake and adharmic.

    So, to be righteous we should strictly observe whom we share material things and grace of Asta Lakshmi - and must make sure it doesn't reach the undeserved or ALakshmi!

    Dhan done by the Dharmic becomes punya and this punya counters the Papa! Dhan done by the Dharmic to someone who is already dharmic and custodian of dharma multiplies this Punya - like giving alms, dhan to Brahmins etc. are examples of such Dhan.

    Hare Krshna!
    thanks for your reply and details on dana, I understant what you say except the term punya dan, so new question, what is punya dhan?
    -Pranam
    Aasato ma sat gamay
    tamaso ma jotirgamay
    mrityorma amrutamgamay
    (Bring me from asat to sat, bring me from darkness (ignorance) to light (knowledge), bring me from death to immortality)
    Om Namah Shivay
    Om Vishnave Namah

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    Re: giving alms for begger

    Dear Soul of Light.,

    Punya Dhan is a very unique and complex as well. Giving your Punya as Dhan to someone unbounded by the TriKala. ( Punya is result of Dhan and giving that as Dhan results in another Punya - TriKala means, in the past, present and future - all at once meaning once all Punya are given as Dhan, you do not hold any Punya for yourself.)

    Also interesting to pass a note here., every Soul has the boundaries to acquire its Punya or merit. Surpassing the boundaries of accounting the punya is not possible but the gaining of such punya is possible. So, those who are full with their limits do distribute their punya to the deserving devotees and this is the idea behind extra ordinary Guru's showering their grace due to the available punya to their deserving disciples or devotees.

    Hare Krshna!

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