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Thread: Neo-Hinduism?

  1. #11

    Re: Neo-Hinduism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aanandinii View Post
    To your other point - Christian ideas in some Hindu systems... I believe it's definitely possible, particularly here in the US. There's a sect I was directed to here at one point that seems to be so influenced, but that's my own perception and perhaps I'm wrong. It also seems to me to be the case that there are simply some Hindu sects that have some ideas I find similar to Abrahamic thoughts and so I just don't tend to "feel" them - but perhaps this is my own poor understanding of poorly translated concepts which have no direct translation into English. It's a complex puzzle. I just go where I feel things make most immediate and easy sense to me.
    ~Pranam
    Is the sect you were directed to ISKCON perhaps? Ever since I learned about them they seemed to me to be an almost Abrahamic version of Hindu Dharma.

  2. #12

    Re: Neo-Hinduism?

    If it is, it's not listed...

  3. #13

    Re: Neo-Hinduism?

    Namaste DeafAncient,

    [As always, these are personal views from a polytheist perspective, not meant to challenge anyone's beliefs, let no one take offence of them]

    Quote Originally Posted by deafAncient View Post
    You may be right about the definition of devotion from your perspective. My idea of devotion is currently mostly inside the church, when one prays to god/lord to ask for success for a ball game, for her father's survival of invasive surgery, for a return of rains and asking what her community did to suffer no rain for 18 months, etc, singing hymns, attending bible school on Sundays, and partly outside the church, like saying "God bless you," "Bless your heart!" "I will pray for you," saying grace at the dinner table, or praying for the safety or success of someone in thoughts. Proselytization is also a form of devotion for Christians. This is what I mean by devotion.
    That also is a kind of devotion. But like there are many levels in thinking there also is also many levels in devotion.

    First let me say that it is perfectly okay to ask the Devas to fulfil our needs. In fact that is the Dharma of the Devas. Our relation with the Devas is one of exchange in which we fulfil each others needs. They give us their blessings, we give them our joy and gratitude. Nature religion is about harmony, each playing his part. The Devas are not supernatural, they are beings with a different nature. Nor do they need to be believed in, they can be experienced and one can engage in a relation with them. In nature religion it is more or less a duty to take care of the needs of other beings, also those of spiritual beings. Interacting with the spiritual world is important for our harmony and sense of well-being, not only with the Devas but also the ancestors.

    In Christianity this was banned and painted as devil worship. They only pray to God and they turned it into a group thing in which they pray for others. Either to heal their fellow believers or for the conversion of non-believers. Because Christians believe that their group spirit is God. So they pray as a group to invoke the group spirit. Where Hinduism is about respecting individual nature, Christianity is about unity, standardization and suppression of individuality. You are good if you conform to the norm. This is typical for Abrahamist religions which are ideologies based on idolatry of perfect ideas, they call belief, word of God. Because of these high ideals, people always fall short, and are seen as imperfect beings.

    I think one has to understand that Abrahamism and Nature religions are so fundamentally different we should not try to seek comparisons between the two. These are only superficial. Yes Christianity has pagan roots, but they see these as evil. Hindu movements trying to convert people to Hinduism try to combine the two worlds. But proselyting itself is a blatantly adharmic Abramist practice. These movements only create a lot of confusion. Sadly like all proselytisers they are overly active. I would not be surprised if some were founded by Jesuits, who have a history of undercover operations, and falsifying other peoples history. For them religion is war.

    Quote Originally Posted by deafAncient View Post
    It took me a long time to stop fighting people trying to help me with emotional control. To this day, I can let down all control and go overboard when I am offended deeply. I've gotten better about that.
    In Nature religion nothing is evil by nature, everything has its own place and its nature should be respected. Respecting the nature of fire, also means being cautious. Caution is a form of respect towards powerful beings. Same thing with emotions. If one has a negative view on emotions, one will try to suppress them rather then cultivate them. Suppressing emotions is guaranteed to make them burst out from time to time. Christianity is based on suppression. Even their peace has nothing to do with harmony, but is simply suppressing all that is considered evil (unchristian).

    Quote Originally Posted by deafAncient View Post
    I don't know how to describe it, but when I see colors, I get different feelings as a way of "naming" the colors. Some people automatically say in their heads orange, red, yellow. With me, it's a different mode of information processing, in that when I look at colors, especially rich, strong colors, there is this "thing" I experience. It's not happy, sad, funny, that sort of thing. I don't know how to explain it, but that's how I recall colors. This and the previous paragraphs shows that I'm not entirely logical with little emotion.
    This interesting rare phenomenon is now accepted by science and called synesthesia.

    You can say that the reason I am not a Christian is because it doesn't speak to me. It is alien to me. Tell me, what does the following mean? I have refused to participate in Christian rituals, like the time when I visited my aunt's family and went to their church upon immediate arrival in the area from Texas (1300 miles one way in my Jeep). Yet, when I went to visit one of the BAPS mandirs in Houston in the summer of 2013, without knowing ANYONE there, this person held a plate of flames (don't know what it's called), and I watched what the person was doing, putting hands somewhat close to the flames and bringing forth something to the person's head two or more times and saying something before the carrier went to the next person. I did it. I copied the behaviors and said in Galeh Yuvo what I had to say at the time. No embarrassment, no self-consciousness, even though I was one of maybe two or three white people in a group of 30 devotees or more. If I went to a Christian church, even one where no one has seen me before, and I am white like the vast majority of the congregation, I would feel embarrassment.
    I think that these Abramist mass religions especially the fundamentalist kind are the product of lower consciousness. The kind of group consciousness we find in gangs and armies. (Soldiers of Christ) People who are spiritually more developed, more individualistic, are likely not to feel at home in them. My personal guess is that religion deteriorated when man became involved in constant warfare.

    Quote Originally Posted by deafAncient View Post
    I will check out the book of Bhakti Yoga to see what it says. Maybe I need to alter my perception of just what Bhakti means.
    Bhakti is based in emotion. It is basically one of the ways through which we interact with reality, besides outer senses, rational thinking, meditation, conscious acting, and awareness of our own body. To become a harmonic being we need to develop all of them by giving all of them sufficient attention. If you do not develop your emotional side, you will keep on having these outbursts that you suppress with rational thinking.

    Abramism is mostly suppression. It suppresses emotion, rational thinking, the body, even ethical consideration. It propagates blind obedience to book morals. That is all their Gods demands, blind obedience, the group spirit we find on the battlefield among slave soldiers. Of course people have done their best to create a more humane religion, but the base remains deeply flawed. That is why is keeps bursting out in fundamentalist extremism.

    They keep provoking conflicts and wars to keep people captivated in the same low consciousness. They are afraid that in peace and prosperity people lose their faith. This kind of religion can only flourish on conflict and misery as it has no happiness to offer in this world, only in the promess of heaven in the hereafter. It is fuelled by desperation, only then will people accept its fake values, hope and consolation, as highest.
    Last edited by Avyaydya; 08 March 2015 at 06:41 PM.

  4. #14

    Re: Neo-Hinduism?

    Quote Originally Posted by Avyaydya View Post
    In nature religion it is more or less a duty to take care of the needs of other beings, also those of spiritual beings. Interacting with the spiritual world is important for our harmony and sense of well-being, not only with the Devas but also the ancestors.

    In Christianity this was banned and painted as devil worship. They only pray to God and they turned it into a group thing in which they pray for others. Either to heal their fellow believers or for the conversion of non-believers. Because Christians believe that their group spirit is God. So they pray as a group to invoke the group spirit. Where Hinduism is about respecting individual nature, Christianity is about unity, standardization and suppression of individuality. You are good if you conform to the norm. This is typical for Abrahamist religions which are ideologies based on idolatry of perfect ideas, they call belief, word of God. Because of these high ideals, people always fall short, and are seen as imperfect beings.
    1st paragraph - what do you mean by spiritual beings? 2nd paragraph, this is great stuff, the way you put it. That is what I have always had trouble with. I simply could not accept this. Too bad I'm not living in India 1000 years ago (maybe I did, but I cannot remember if I did or not).

    Quote Originally Posted by Avyaydya View Post
    In Nature religion nothing is evil by nature, everything has its own place and its nature should be respected. Respecting the nature of fire, also means being cautious. Caution is a form of respect towards powerful beings. Same thing with emotions. If one has a negative view on emotions, one will try to suppress them rather then cultivate them. Suppressing emotions is guaranteed to make them burst out from time to time. Christianity is based on suppression. Even their peace has nothing to do with harmony, but is simply suppressing all that is considered evil (unchristian).
    That is why I do not suppress my emotions. It only leads to bad outcomes. Don't let it build up and fester, or it goes boom on you or you experience unintended consequences of not acknowledging your emotions.

    The note about synesthesia - that is not what I'm trying to describe. That means if I hear the word occupancy - I see a cup of chocolate pudding and taste it in my mouth, or the word spaghetti, and I hear a ladle hit the metal pot and see a single strand of red-sauce-covered noodle hanging by both ends from the spoon of the ladle. Mister? I smell matches burning. But this isn't what I'm referring to, because what I am doing is experiencing something as a result of seeing something, or even visualizing something in my mind. Instead of seeing red and thinking the word, "red," or seeing a bicycle and thinking the word "bicycle," I get subtle sensations (I don't know what they are, but they are there).

    Quote Originally Posted by Avyaydya View Post
    I think that these Abramist mass religions especially the fundamentalist kind are the product of lower consciousness. The kind of group consciousness we find in gangs and armies. (Soldiers of Christ) People who are spiritually more developed, more individualistic, are likely not to feel at home in them. My personal guess is that religion deteriorated when man became involved in constant warfare.
    Sounds like you are using the Indic chakra hermeneutics of gazing upon the westerners in that light, and that's what I do, because I come from an outsider's perspective. It's like I was raised one way at home, and yet when my stepmother made me go to church, I was expected to be something else, which did not make sense to me. I felt like I was a Native American being yanked out of the home and placed into a western institution of language and education. The soldiers in the armies as you describe are operating from the first and third chakras, security and projection of power, respectively. Wendy Doniger is an example of one who operates on the bottom three chakras. Some of her "children" are operating from the bottom two, security of their own culture's superiority and sexualizing the rituals and literature of SD. Although it is sad, The book, "Kali's Child" is a hilarious read because what Sanātani would read literature in the way the author does, especially when you read the "unauthorized" rejoinder, "Kali's Child Revisited." Like, "Wow, Lingam, that's hot! I'll give up meat and alcohol for that!" What?? The real danger is that it can pull Sanātanis who are not strong in their beliefs down out of the upper chakras to the lower ones and destroy the dharmic way of thinking and living.

    Quote Originally Posted by Avyaydya View Post
    Abramism is mostly suppression. It suppresses emotion, rational thinking, the body, even ethical consideration.
    Sounds like my Dad, who said, "It's always against ANYTHING that feels good."

  5. #15

    Re: Neo-Hinduism?

    Quote Originally Posted by deafAncient View Post
    1st paragraph - what do you mean by spiritual beings? 2nd paragraph, this is great stuff, the way you put it. That is what I have always had trouble with. I simply could not accept this. Too bad I'm not living in India 1000 years ago (maybe I did, but I cannot remember if I did or not).
    Namaste DeafAncient,

    I meant spirits. Beings that are not or no longer connected to a particular physical body. I do not pretend to understand their precise nature. It is interesting that in imitating nature we are now creating similar beings in a crude way as software entities in hardware.

    The note about synesthesia - that is not what I'm trying to describe. That means if I hear the word occupancy - I see a cup of chocolate pudding and taste it in my mouth, or the word spaghetti, and I hear a ladle hit the metal pot and see a single strand of red-sauce-covered noodle hanging by both ends from the spoon of the ladle. Mister? I smell matches burning. But this isn't what I'm referring to, because what I am doing is experiencing something as a result of seeing something, or even visualizing something in my mind. Instead of seeing red and thinking the word, "red," or seeing a bicycle and thinking the word "bicycle," I get subtle sensations (I don't know what they are, but they are there).
    If I understand it correctly what synesthesia is about is that our brain is not hard wired to the senses, but different areas can be programmed to share even take over each others functions, or reconnect to other senses. The way we respond to our senses is also connected to how we react to non-sensory input like memories. Though we presume we all share similar experiences, they are highly personal, but we learn to order and label them in the same way. In your special case one might expect that the part of the brain that would normally process sound has learned to process other input in whole new way, giving it a new flavour and dimension. But that is all guesswork on my part. I think it is exiting what science is now discovering as it creates a new understanding of reality that is less harnessed by long held conceptions. Some people are afraid of science and fear a material perpective, but I think science is only revealing the true wonder of our reality and our insights become ever more subtle as we dive in deeper.

    Sounds like you are using the Indic chakra hermeneutics of gazing upon the westerners in that light, and that's what I do, because I come from an outsider's perspective. It's like I was raised one way at home, and yet when my stepmother made me go to church, I was expected to be something else, which did not make sense to me. I felt like I was a Native American being yanked out of the home and placed into a western institution of language and education. The soldiers in the armies as you describe are operating from the first and third chakras, security and projection of power, respectively. Wendy Doniger is an example of one who operates on the bottom three chakras. Some of her "children" are operating from the bottom two, security of their own culture's superiority and sexualizing the rituals and literature of SD. Although it is sad, The book, "Kali's Child" is a hilarious read because what Sanātani would read literature in the way the author does, especially when you read the "unauthorized" rejoinder, "Kali's Child Revisited." Like, "Wow, Lingam, that's hot! I'll give up meat and alcohol for that!" What?? The real danger is that it can pull Sanātanis who are not strong in their beliefs down out of the upper chakras to the lower ones and destroy the dharmic way of thinking and living.
    Though such measurement certainly makes sense, I am cautious about categorizing. There is always so much more. After all these years I still find Abramic religion an enigma and discover new aspects. Sometimes it seems to me like a large scale social experiment to program human kind. The people that execute it also amaze me. The thorough way in which they are programmed I find truly amazing. And It is so well organized almost like a machine.

    Is the human mind generally so vulnerable to reprogramming? And are there some highly intelligent beings at the buttons? And is there a greater purpose behind it, or are these group processes taking their own course? Do we live in a joint in time? Are it the games of the Gods? How come so many people believe we take part in a cosmic war for some God that must be fought by all means? Is this a virus of the mind, a mental disease, what Richard Dawkins calls a meme? And then these wars. A historian described them as large scale blood sacrifice rituals, orgies of human sacrifices. We even call the victims �sacrifices of war�. What beings are feasting on them?

    For me Hinduism with all its flaws feels like a saner alternative for human kind. It is more rich and loving and gives our mind a lot more headroom to expand our consciousness. In Abramism people are made to live under a blanket. At lifting this blanket we now see an explosion of new thought in the west that should be taken very serious. Humanity is going through an unbelievable acceleration, our consciousness is expanding rapidly. The US seems to be the place where the old and new collide head on. We indeed live in interesting times.
    Last edited by Avyaydya; 10 March 2015 at 01:07 AM.

  6. #16

    Re: Neo-Hinduism?

    Namaste Avyaydya,

    In regards to your last paragraph, I made the phrase some years ago:

    "The Age of Awakening, where we help one another remove the blanket of darkness that lies over us, and we help one another maximize the potential for society and the potential in everyone of us that is just waiting to flower." - December 23, 2006 - that was a long time ago.

    And you make a very interesting observation about warfare!

  7. #17
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    Re: Neo-Hinduism?

    Namaste Ji,
    Quote Originally Posted by ArjunAchary4 View Post
    Is the sect you were directed to ISKCON perhaps? Ever since I learned about them they seemed to me to be an almost Abrahamic version of Hindu Dharma.
    Actually, no. Although I was also directed to ISKON last year by a person at a Temple I went to here, who thought I might find it more accessible, somehow. It's probably not an inaccurate assumption/generalization to make for many Westerners. But I had already found decades ago that it wasn't the right path for me.

    No, this person sent me to the Bramha Kumaris. The woman I spoke with claimed the goals of "Realization" or "Moksha" are unrealistic because
    there is no such thing, scoffed at Advaita Vedanta and indicated their view is a Dual one, and upon finding out I was actively studying a Saivite lineage she summarily dismissed me and ignored further attempts at conversation. Oh well.
    Quote Originally Posted by deafAncient View Post
    Wendy Doniger is an example of one who operates on the bottom three chakras. Some of her "children" are operating from the bottom two, security of their own culture's superiority and sexualizing the rituals and literature of SD. Although it is sad, The book, "Kali's Child" is a hilarious read because what Sanātani would read literature in the way the author does, especially when you read the "unauthorized" rejoinder, "Kali's Child Revisited." Like, "Wow, Lingam, that's hot! I'll give up meat and alcohol for that!" What?? The real danger is that it can pull Sanātanis who are not strong in their beliefs down out of the upper chakras to the lower ones and destroy the dharmic way of thinking and living.
    I need an emoticon that does a double-take. What? I've never heard of Wendy Doniger, but you've sparked a morbid curiosity in her writing. Usually before reading critiques of a text I will read the text first, but in this case I wonder if I should read Ms. Doniger's book at all? Or will I be too disgusted after the first chapter and toss it in the trash? Is it completely without any merit at all?
    Instead of seeing red and thinking the word, "red," or seeing a bicycle and thinking the word "bicycle," I get subtle sensations (I don't know what they are, but they are there).
    I also thought at first you meant synesthesia. I still think it could be. All of the senses get combined in synesthesia, even emotion and fine sensations. But it's such a subjective thing, perhaps it really isn't.

    Wow, Avyaydya, excellent and interesting points on Abrahamic and Western cultures and on War. I do believe the mind is that easily reprogrammable, all one has to do is look at the latest findings in Neurology and some of the fun tricks you can play with neurohacking. Or look at the science behind why different people perceived the colors of the now infamous dress, or why some of the women who are genetically positive super-color sensors can't actually see more colors at all, where they should be able to. We can see this same thing in practice in so many other areas of life and culture.

    Experience from our Human forms is Subjective. Even physics, being a science of material nature, is beginning to prove that from this plane of existence, there is almost nothing that is truly and completely objective. Change your vantage point, and a whole new picture emerges.
    "The Age of Awakening, where we help one another remove the blanket of darkness that lies over us, and we help one another maximize the potential for society and the potential in everyone of us that is just waiting to flower." - December 23, 2006 - that was a long time ago.
    That is a beautiful thought.
    ~Pranam
    ~~~~~
    What has Learning profited a man, if it has not led him to worship the good feet of Him who is pure knowledge itself?
    They alone dispel the mind's distress, who take refuge at the feet of the incomparable one.
    ~~Tirukural 2, 7

    Anbe Sivamayam, Satyame Parasivam

  8. #18

    Re: Neo-Hinduism?

    Namaste Aanandinii,

    You can read about Wendy Doniger here - http://rajivmalhotra.com/library/art...hild-syndrome/

    You will most likely toss her book in the trash, but the book, written by this western "indologist," will give you an insight into how academia looks at SD from a western standpoint, and why that needs to change.

    Look up books like "Invading the Sacred" and "Kali's Child Revisited," which you can download for free in PDF format. They will give you an idea on what western academia is up to.

  9. #19
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    Re: Neo-Hinduism?

    Namaste deafAncient,

    Thank you for the direct link, I'll read it. I intend to read more of Mr. Malhotraji's writing as well, certainly.

    Oh believe me, I'm very aware of what the mainstream Western Cultural Anthropolgy and Archaeology does. It's not limited to India, and in some cases is even evident in work done on ancient Western cultures (read: non-christian). There are some true scientists and scholars, but they are outnumbered. In general in my readings so far I've been careful to look for recommendations on translations and authors who are either recommended by people here, or by some of my friends in my local community.

    edit Wow... I recognize the name now. I saw a couple of her books in Barnes & Noble. Knew it was tripe but if the extreme laid out here is true then wow.
    I'll never stop wondering what makes some people so twisted. That can't just be cultural programing alone.

    ~Pranam
    Last edited by Aanandinii; 10 March 2015 at 09:44 PM.
    ~~~~~
    What has Learning profited a man, if it has not led him to worship the good feet of Him who is pure knowledge itself?
    They alone dispel the mind's distress, who take refuge at the feet of the incomparable one.
    ~~Tirukural 2, 7

    Anbe Sivamayam, Satyame Parasivam

  10. #20

    Re: Neo-Hinduism?

    Quote Originally Posted by deafAncient View Post
    Namaste Aanandinii,

    You can read about Wendy Doniger here - http://rajivmalhotra.com/library/art...hild-syndrome/

    You will most likely toss her book in the trash, but the book, written by this western "indologist," will give you an insight into how academia looks at SD from a western standpoint, and why that needs to change.

    Look up books like "Invading the Sacred" and "Kali's Child Revisited," which you can download for free in PDF format. They will give you an idea on what western academia is up to.
    Namaste DeafAncient,

    Strong opinions.

    There is a thread on this (now closed): Timeline from Wendy Doniger's "The Hindus"

    As to your link. the quote is incomplete:

    The Bhagavad Gita is not as nice a book as some Americans think. Throughout the Mahabharata... Krishna goads human beings into all sorts of murderous and self-destructive behaviours such as war... The Gita is a dishonest book;
    It justifies war . ...I am a pacifist. I don’t believe in good wars.
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
    ~ Aristotle
    Last edited by Avyaydya; 12 March 2015 at 09:12 PM.

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