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Thread: Feeling confused

  1. #1

    Feeling confused

    Hello everybody!

    I registered to this forum searching for answers. I've been interested in spirituality since I was a child. Seeing photos of sadhus and saints in different books fascinated me. Religion in Europe was never like that. Why? That was the first question that came up with. I wanted the answer. I didn't know how to find it, but I tried to dive deep into spiritual scene by looking for articles and books that could teach me.

    Then I met a person who had visited India several times and was really into Hinduism. He and I became good friends. We chatted alot about religion and he told me stories about India. It felt amazing. I felt like I was finally on the right path. I started to gain some understanding on God.

    Some years passed, I visited ISCKON Sunday parties, read the Gita, did some yoga, meditated every day... Everything started to seem clear to me. Then like a lightning it hit me - why was I interested only in Hinduism? Why did I think that this was the thing that would lead to self realization? What about other religions? It was easy for me to see that other religions like Christianity and Sufism were talking about the same God that Vedas talk about. But it didn't end there. Oh no. For a very strong minded person, I just had to figure out what were the atheist people thinking. What is this Buddhism thing and why don't they talk about self realization as a way to divine - as a way to understand God? I read many books about Buddhism. It seemed very blurry. Their teaching felt unsatisfying, but it walked hand in hand with modern science. After some time doing intensive research on Buddhism, I started to understand the basics. Especially Zen fascinated me. I started to do zazen every day. I started to see Hinduism as a sort of fantasy world that people were living in. It provided its followers with answers but had too much metaphors and imaginary stories in it. The answers seemed to get lost.

    Now that I have practiced both Vedanta and Buddhism, I really feel confused. Both of them seem to be a great way to enlightenment, but they speak against each other. That's the main reason why I feel confused. They can't tolerate each other. Hindu world seems like home to me, but I just can't get the Buddhist criticism out of my mind. But when I practice Buddhism, I feel unsatisfied. It helps you with your life-control but what else?

    Are there anyone that have walked the same path? Any tips? Don't know who to turn to.

  2. #2

    Re: Feeling confused

    Heppu

    Hindu Dharma is not about fantasy worlds. If you find it hard to believe that is OK.

    You may want to read this :
    http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/sho...10&postcount=4

  3. #3
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    Re: Feeling confused

    Namaste Heppu,
    I think that we westerners (if we were lucky not to be indoctrinated like many of people were with christianity for example) make fatal mistake in this search for answers. A search for answers is mental, cognitive, in the end physical principle which is very hard to be cut off.
    Just like you, I have also been very interested in spirituality since I was a child, but I kept it passive in a way that I didn't follow any particular path. I would do meditations from time to time, but I didn't think about specific practices or disciplines. I kept my relationship with God and I came across some techniques, but I wasn't really ready to actively use them.

    When I got great spiritual kick last year, I just started feeling the urge to go somewhere, to learn some technique and start doing my practice actively.
    That urge led me to buddhist center right on time because they had chan meditation weekend. I attended some public lectures before that and agreed with most parts of their philosophy (non-violence- great, control of mind- great, stay calm and just be an observer- great). In the end I attened that course. What happened after the course was that I wasn't satisfied with zen method; it was too rigid, too mental, too earthly orientated. I don't know, I just thought it's not what I'm looking for. The other thing that pushed me away was conversation with people there when we started sharing our spiritual experiences. They had no clue what I was talking about, terminology I used was repulsive to them (I would say chakras, third eye etc. and it was natural terminology to me since I was a kid) and I realized that we don't share the same concept of spirituality.

    The good part was that I met a person who invited me to kirtan evening very soon after that and when I heard names of devatas it was like I was hit with some ancient image of my life, like a long lost memory. Then something just switched in me and I realized that that what I have been looking for obviously has to do something with hinduism.
    When I started reading Vivekananda and Prabhupada many things they wrote were so normal to me that I knew I had to keep going that road.
    So here I am, still confused in many things, still searching for many answers, still not knowing a lot but knowing that whatever I'm searching for can be found somewhere in ancient scripts of India or in books by not so ancient yogis.
    Of course, I developed some new annoying questions and I'm aware of it, but the thing that keeps me going this road lies in these things:
    1. my point of view, my feelings regarding spiritual development resonate with what can be found in hinduism
    2. main concepts I came across resonate with my concepts
    3. techniques used in hinduism (like yoga, meditative practices, mantras) are techniques I naturally feel attracted to.

    I think that the only answer you can find is that one telling you how you feel. If you say hindu world seems to be like home for you and we know that one "home sweet home", I think that says a lot.

    Mind will want to speculate, nogotiate, create thousands and thousands of questions, logical concepts and perplexities (I want to tame that mind as well).
    I think that beauty of hinduism lies in that vivid picture of spiritual dimension and that is exactly what one over-rational but confused mind needs- to break that mental frame and go toward transcedental.

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    Re: Feeling confused

    Heppu,
    I think this is a post for you:
    http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=13747



    Harih Om

  5. #5

    Re: Feeling confused

    Thank you for your kind answer!

    Yes, I know. I've seen how bhakti works and it is amazing! It's just Buddhist point of view that makes Vedanta seem like a fantasy world of some kind. When you look at a beautiful tree, you don't see a tree, but fall into a thought of an underlying force behind the tree. That separates you from the present moment. That's why yogic, especially bhakti seems like living in a imaginary world, or if not imaginary, in a world that is filled with associations and other activity of the mind. That's what makes me feel confused. The teachings don't seem to be in harmony with each other and it's hard for me to see which one fits me better. I've come to realization that it's impossible to practise both.

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    Re: Feeling confused

    Quote Originally Posted by Heppu View Post
    I've come to realization that it's impossible to practise both.
    Vannakkam: In my opinion, this is a huge start. I believe in narrowing practise down, to get full power of a particular sampradaya.

    I didn't walk the path you did, other than a fascination with India at an early age, so have little to offer.

    Have you explored othe schools besides ISKCON and Vedanta? There are plenty more fish in the sea, so to speak.

    Aum Namasivaya

  7. #7

    Re: Feeling confused

    Namaste Heppu,

    [My personal opinion from a polytheist perspective]

    Quote Originally Posted by Heppu View Post
    Hello everybody!
    It was easy for me to see that other religions like Christianity and Sufism were talking about the same God that Vedas talk about.
    You did? As a polytheist I can only smile at that. Seems to me you are projecting your Christian creed on other traditions.

    Quote Originally Posted by Heppu View Post
    But it didn't end there. Oh no. For a very strong minded person, I just had to figure out what were the atheist people thinking. What is this Buddhism thing and why don't they talk about self realization as a way to divine - as a way to understand God?
    Again, seems to me you are projecting your Christian creed on other traditions. You seem to think every religion has to be about liberation.

    I started to see Hinduism as a sort of fantasy world that people were living in. It provided its followers with answers but had too much metaphors and imaginary stories in it. The answers seemed to get lost.
    That is how it looks from the Christian perspective

    Now that I have practiced both Vedanta and Buddhism, I really feel confused. Both of them seem to be a great way to enlightenment, but they speak against each other. That's the main reason why I feel confused. They can't tolerate each other. Hindu world seems like home to me, but I just can't get the Buddhist criticism out of my mind. But when I practice Buddhism, I feel unsatisfied. It helps you with your life-control but what else?

    Are there anyone that have walked the same path? Any tips? Don't know who to turn to.
    No one walks the same path. The path is not what you think it is. It is a waking up to a clearer understanding. It is silly to ask others to do that for you, you have to do that yourself. Like so many you are seeking an escape of suffering, a liberation. Like many you think you need to follow an intellectual path, a perfect truth to ultimate happiness.

    Hinduism is no creed like Christianity, it is large collection of traditions, also combining philosophical traditions like Vedanta directed at liberation. They have only one thing in common: Dharma. The right action, living in respect to other beings and allowing each to think his own. Now you come here from the Christian creed to ask what the only true path is, because Christians only believe in one truth.

    Who cares? If you want liberation, the only true path is the one that delivers that to you. Hindus are practical people. Dharm is about right action, not about the right ideology/theology/philosophy.

    Personally I do not even strive for liberation. Why not? Because I am not that desperate. As a practical person I rather seek a happy life in the here and now than some kind of final solution in perfect ideas. God means as little to me as to a Buddhist. I do not seek help of an all-being to lift me out of this world.

    Hinduism is not a creed. It is no Islam, no Christianity. It is more like Judaism but has many more traditions. You can not simply step into them as cultural stranger. There is no conversion as it is no creed. Saying I want to be a Hindu is like saying I want to be an Eskimo or an Aborignal or a Pigmee, because I like their tradition, their thinking, their customs and feel at home with that.

    But the philosophical schools you can study. Buddhism is one too and only slightly different from Vedanta. Who cares about the details? If it does you good it is good, if it does not it is not. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. You really want us to engage in some theoretical discussion on details why one is better than the other? Hindus do not do that, they respect other thinking.

    You seem to have a problem that Buddhism does not have a God. Why? Because you were indoctrinated from birth that is the most important thing in existence. As a (ex?) Christian the spiritual world of the Hindus with its stories of Devas and Demons you find fantasy stories and imaginary stories. Well saying that out loud is pretty offensive and arrogant.

    To me the Devas are real because they bring real experience, but the supreme God is an abstract concept I do not subscribe to. A belief thing. I do not base on beliefs, only on experience. I find it telling you recognize God in the Vedas as it only talks about the Devas. We all see what we want to see.

    Buddha did not talk about God, he neither denies nor acknowledges such entity. He only teaches a path to personal liberation. He does not need a God for that. He does not regard personal liberation as clothes that need a hanger. Nor does his path to liberation rely on the help of the Devas. The same goes for Vedanta. Other paths do rely on the idea of a God for liberation and find God essential as you probably know from Ishkon.

    I personally am not interested in these paths. None of them guarantee liberation in this life nor am I in a hurry. I rather want to be happy in the here and now and improve myself gradually. I am not desperate to end my journey around the Universe by taking a plane home. Unproven promises of instant liberation in the afterlife as in Christianity, do not entice me. So even the path of Buddhism or Vedanta to me would only have value in as far as they create higher happiness here. Christianity only promises misery here, but other paths do give some satisfaction in freeing the mind. But that is up to you to decide. It is useless to ask us for a theoretical evaluation of any path. You can even create your own path for all we care. Just be respectful.
    Last edited by Avyaydya; 15 March 2015 at 01:34 PM.

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    Re: Feeling confused

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    Last edited by LightofOm; 26 June 2015 at 12:01 AM.
    ॐ मृत्युंजयाय रुद्राय नीलकण्ठाय शम्भवे l
    अमृतेशाय शर्वाय महादेवाय ते नम: ll

    Sanātana Dharma Worldwide

  9. #9

    Re: Feeling confused

    Thank you for your answers! I respect you for sharing your time with me!

    Avyaydya:
    Seems to me you are projecting your Christian creed on other traditions.
    This is a funny thing. I met a friend from my childhood few weeks ago. She told me she had found her ''My friend...''-book that she used to have when were at a primary school. I had written to it. In that book, there was a question: ''What is the most useless thing in the world?'' ''Religion schoolbook'' I had answered. This was extremely funny, because my friend knows how interested I am in different religions. I thought my answer tells much about my feelings towards Christian propaganda. Didn't like it as a child, don't like it nowadays either. But what it comes to Christian god, I see it as the one they talk about in all spiritual traditions. They just talk about it with different names. God manifests itself differently to different people. Devas and avatars can be seen as manifestations of one god - Brahman. I didn't make this up, neither did Christians, this is what is taught in Vedas.
    ''Truth is One, but the sages speak of it by many names." (Rig Veda)



    As I told in my previous post, the Hindu world seems to be a fantasy world from atheistic or Buddhist point of view. Buddhist tries to see world as it is, not as it could be. When you watch a tree, a Buddhist sees a tree, a Hindu sees a manifestation of god. That's why it's natural for a Hindu to see the world through his/her imagination. Every time he sees a tree, he thinks of his conseption on god. This thought takes him away from the present moment. A Buddhist sees a tree and enjoys it as a tree. That's a piece of Nirvana right there. Always in the present moment! Advaita is the only Hindu tradition I know, that teaches that the liberation is always in this moment. That, of course, could be because of the lack of my research.

    Avyaydya:
    You seem to have a problem that Buddhism does not have a God. Why? Because you were indoctrinated from birth that is the most important thing in existence. As a (ex?) Christian the spiritual world of the Hindus with its stories of Devas and Demons you find fantasy stories and imaginary stories. Well saying that out loud is pretty offensive and arrogant.
    Devas and avatars are real to me too, but maybe more as aspects of one reality that symbolize different things. For me, I haven't seen a blue guy playing a flute, but I definitely have witnessed the love that Krishna represents. To me, one god is the existence itself. Everything else just manifestations of that oneness.

    Thank you Avyaydya for your post! I hope you answer me if it feels right!


    Eastern Mind:
    Have you explored othe schools besides ISKCON and Vedanta? There are plenty more fish in the sea, so to speak.
    This seems to be a hard thing to do as a Finnish guy. There hasn't been much translated to Finnish. Some Prabhupada's books, yes, but I don't like them that much. Haha. Do you have any recommendations? Sources for information?

  10. #10

    Re: Feeling confused

    Forgot to mention that Eckhart Tolle's and Thich Nhat Hanh's teachings have given me most of my spiritual understanding. Also Bhagavad Gita has been a big influence. Actually I didn't read the one with Prabhupada's commentary. The one I read was translated by Finnish Taavi Kassila, who was a disciple of Mother Amma.

    LightOfOm:
    Have you tried looking into some schools of thought that are more Advaitic in nature?
    Namaskar, LightOfOm, and thank you for your post!
    I've read some of the teachings of Ramana Maharshi and watched videos of H.W.L. Pooja and Mooji. All of these teachers have been called messengers of neo-advaita. Their philosophy seems to be closely related to Eckhart Tolle's techings. I have no knowledge of the original Advaita Vedanta. Would you like to recommend something? I've tried to do some research on that, but haven't gotten far by now...

    Ametyst:
    Thank you for the link! Harih Om!

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