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Thread: Sampradaya = Bhakti Marga?

  1. #1

    Sampradaya = Bhakti Marga?

    Namaste,

    I was going through another forum, RF, where a post (#20) by @Poeticus, who is a Hindu polytheist of Vedic persuasion (not me), caught my attention. He wrote:
    I believe every Shaiva, Shakta, and Vaishnava sampradaya to be a bhakti cult, even the most glorious Ramanandi sect that prostrates before the unconquerable Lord Shri Ram. Since they are sampradaya-s, then, by default, they would qualify for being considered as "bhakti cults".
    If we go to Sanskrit we are told that Bhakti = division. In RgVeda this is how the word appear (though I can't produce the occurrences right now).

    So in this way, each sampradaya becomes a separate stream of the net Hindu movement, and caters to different Bhakta-s with their respective "needs".

    From Bhakta-s point of view, a sampradaya to which he/ she belongs is a mid or long term (typically life-time also) commitment to a particular deity (and, mArga) made in a way so as to maximise the results while he/ she is at it.

    After all, we are infinite beings ourselves but different limbs of this being within us are but undeveloped: we are all like uncut diamonds, and need to focus on each facet (not imaginary).

    So this is how Hinduism though polytheistic overall, still allows for followers who are liberally monotheistic in their approach by the way of being affiliated with a Bhakti mArga.

    What else "Bhakti" could mean?
    reward, portion, bhOga, bhAga, passion, unwavering focus, and what else..
    Last edited by satay; 17 March 2015 at 03:45 PM.
    Things to remember:

    1. Life = yajña
    2. Depth of Āstika knowledge is directly proportional
    to the richness of Sanskrit it is written in
    3. Āstika = Bhārata ("east") / Ārya ("west")
    4. Varṇa = tripartite division of Vedic polity
    5. r = c. x²
    where,
    r = realisation
    constant c = intelligence
    variable x = bhakti

  2. #2
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    Re: Sampradaya = Bhakti Marga?

    Namaste Ji,

    It seems that not all Sampradayas are Bhakti oriented.Just yesterday I came across a video in youtube,the speaker was a Vira Shaiva.I thought that the Veera Shaivas are very Shiva Bhakti oriented
    guys,but from his talk it seemed totally different.

    Some things I learnt y'day:
    -He talks about Linga Anga Samarasya,wherein Linga is Paramatma,Anga is the Jivatma and the realization of non-duality is the goal.
    -Real Lingachara is not external Bhakti worship but purifying oneself and realizing the falsity of duality/division by practicing Sadachara through the correct usage of senses i.e. Dharma.

    You need to know basic Virashaiva terms to understand,so I'm quoting from the net.If you are interested I'll post the video link.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingaya...gayat_theology

    The Panchacharas describe the five modes of conduct to be followed by the believer. The Panchacharas include:[9]

    • Lingāchāra – Daily worship of the individual Ishtalinga, one to three times day.
    • Sadāchāra – Attention to vocation and duty, and adherence to the seven rules of conduct issued by Basavanna:
    • kaLa beDa (Do not steal);
    • kola beDa (Do not kill or hurt);
    • husiya nuDiyalu beDa (Do not utter lies);
    • thanna baNNisabeDa (Do not praise yourself*);
    • idira haLiyalu beDa (Do not scold others);
    • muniya beDa (Do not abuse others from anger);
    • anyarige asathya paDabeDa (Do not be intolerant towards others).
    • Sivāchāra – acknowledging Shiva as the supreme divine being and upholding the equality and well-being of all human beings.
    • Bhrityāchāra – Compassion towards all creatures.


    Shatsthala, or the concept of six phases/states/paths, is pivotal to the Lingayat philosophy. Shatsthala is a conflation of Shat and Sthala, which means 'six phases/states/levels' through which a soul advances in its ultimate quest of realisation of the Supreme. The Shatsthala comprises the Bhakta Sthala, Maheshwara Sthala, Prasadi Sthala, Pranalingi Sthala, Sharana Sthala and the Aikya Sthala. The Aikya Sthala is the culmination where the soul leaves the physical body and merges with the Supreme.

    The following Vachana gives a beautiful and concise description of Shatsthala.

    "If he is a Bhakta, he should be
    Free from the desires of mind and body.

    If he is Maheshvara, he should avoid
    Another's wealth, Another's concern, another's wife.

    If he is a Prasadi, he should forget
    The pleasures of taste and Keep his body pure.

    If he is a Pranalingi, he should renounce
    His body and merge with Linga.

    He who enjoys, not self, but Him
    In everything is a Lingaikya…"



    What appears to outsiders as a Bhakti tradition could actually involve many other intricate ideas.
    Last edited by Ram11; 23 March 2015 at 07:39 AM.
    He dances in the golden hall of Chidambaram, Let us worship His rosy anklet girt Feet.

  3. #3

    Re: Sampradaya = Bhakti Marga?

    Namaste KAlicharaN ji
    Quote Originally Posted by Kalicharan Tuvij View Post
    What else "Bhakti" could mean?
    reward, portion, bhOga, bhAga, passion, unwavering focus, and what else..
    samarpaN -- offer the false-ego at BhagvAn's Lotus Feet and completely depend on Him
    shraddhA, vishwAs -- complete trust and faith
    prem -- Love
    vyAkuLtA -- earnestness
    ruchI --- taste
    kshamA --- forgiveness (for other beings since paramAtmA lives in them or they are His)

    many other things, but for some other day.

    sacchidAnanda rUpAya vishwatpathyAdi hetave
    tApatraya vinAshAya shri KRshNAya vayam numah:

  4. #4

    Re: Sampradaya = Bhakti Marga?

    Pranam Smaranam ji,
    Quote Originally Posted by smaranam View Post
    samarpaN -- offer the false-ego at BhagvAn's Lotus Feet and completely depend on HimshraddhA, vishwAs -- complete trust and faithprem -- LovevyAkuLtA -- earnestnessruchI --- tastekshamA --- forgiveness (for other beings since paramAtmA lives in them or they are His)
    Suppose if someone lacks these qualities - by the way of simply lacking, or perhaps due to cultural reasons - can these be cultivated? If, say, vyAkultA, or ruchI, or prema - surely which look like a state of being, so what if someone isn't naturally endowed with these? All the talk of Dharma will then just remain that - talk. What if someone who lacks this part, bhakti, and instead builds arguments around it, by saying "I am into gyANa, gyANa is higher than bhakti you know."I wonder how many people really mean Bhakti when they say "Bhakti". How come Bhakti came about to be misconstrued as "tears and madness"? Is there even something like "separate paths of Bhakti mArga, GyANa marga, and so on"? Isn't Bhakti by definition itself the mArga? Isn't mArga = path = division = pantha?Namaste Ram-ji,Very interesting points, indeed. With the example of Vir-Shaiva (Lingayata) sampradaya you clearly explained how what appears on the surface as "mere Bhakti" turns out to be the whole range of practises employed within Dharmic perimeters. So, in view of OP, does this mean that Bhakti is in reality "more than Bhakti"?Now, for example, suppose A and B both want to learn swimming. One of the ways to do that is:A and B go over Internet, watch a lot of Youtubes, download a plenty PDFs, and finally - just to confirm their knowledge - start discussing between themselves as to "What is the true way of swimming?" Initially the discussion is civil, but things then go south.Next, the other way of learning to swim is:A goes over the info available on Internet etc, and then decides on a fateful day to visit the pool. B, on the other hand, directly goes to the pool and enrols under an experienced trainer there. Both A and B start practising - A on the dint of self effort, and B following the trainer's instructions - they even exchange their learnings in between.In the first method, neither A nor B actually learnt swimming. In the second narrative, both tried and learned many styles of swimming- so today both know "how to swim correctly", even as each of them has developed different preferred swimming styles, even while conversant with other styles.
    Things to remember:

    1. Life = yajña
    2. Depth of Āstika knowledge is directly proportional
    to the richness of Sanskrit it is written in
    3. Āstika = Bhārata ("east") / Ārya ("west")
    4. Varṇa = tripartite division of Vedic polity
    5. r = c. x²
    where,
    r = realisation
    constant c = intelligence
    variable x = bhakti

  5. #5

    Re: Sampradaya = Bhakti Marga?

    Namaste Kalicharanji

    For some, bhakti is the means as well as the end. The mArga as well as the lakshya. Whether sAdhak or siddha. JnAna is a side-effect of Grace from Parameshwar. So yes, bhakti and jnAna (dnyAna) will both develop.
    The sAdhanA that you do is antah:karaNa-shuddhi (purification of the heart). Bhakti develops as a result of Grace and sAdhanA. What matters to the bhakta is the Beloved Deva.

    Who said anything about "tears and madness" ? Do you see that anywhere on this thread? However, these are observations. Not rules.

    What is wrong in saying Bhakti is samarpaN shraddhA vishwAs kshamA and prem? What you are calling bhakti is the sAdhanA, practice by the aspirant. When bhakti actually develops, the heart is now pure and it is full of the bhAvanA for MurArI. MurArI likes your bhAvanA (devotional consciousness) (there is a song that says He is hungry for this i.e. to see this). He is happy to see your bhakti unfold as well as your jnAna unfold.

    Ruchi is taste. It develops after shraddhA. Without taste for bhajan you won't continue. Your mind will not be on the IshTa. There will be no motivation.

    ------------------
    You asked about what bhakti can mean so I answered. We were not yet talking about how to develop the qualities.

    Bhakti grows over and across lifetimes. Carried over from one life to the next. The sAdhu-sant tell us "Adau shraddhA" , "sAdhu sanga" Have faith and associate with or serve the sAdhus, mahAtmA , bhAgvats, the devotees. By the blessing of the bhAgvat and BhagavAn, the seed of bhakti will be sown. Once Shri Hari takes charge of you or a sAdhu-sant does, there is no turning back.


    Then you have to water the seed and make it grow, pull the weeds, melt the heart (ref: Chaitanya CharitrAmruta). Call Parameshwar BhagavAn with your heart. That is what the chanting of holy names is about.

    The shAstra (scriptures) talk about navadha-bhakti -- 9-fold ways of making bhakti blossom -- as told by PralhAd. (--BhAgvat purAN), (Also VishNu purAN, RamayaN (Ram tells Shabri)...)
    shravaNam = hearing about the SacchdAnanda BhagvAn from bhAgvats and BhagvAn
    kirtanam = relating His names and glories to others including animals
    vishNoh smaraNam = remembering VishNu, the all-pervading and infinite Adi-NArAyaN, Adi-purusha.
    pAda sevanam --- seva, service
    archanam ---- pUjA
    vandanam --- glorification of the Deity, Deva
    dAsyam --- serve Him as loving servant of the Loving Master Who has taken you in His(Her) shelter
    sakhyam --- Be His friend, Pure Divine friendship. No expectations in return.
    Atma-nivedanam ---- Live for Him, offer your heart and whole and soul, be completely dependant on Deva.

    With sAdhanA the heart becomes pure. Then comes shuddha bhakti. After this bhakti bhAv continues involuntarily. The Beloved is the source and the sink.

    shri KRshNa govinda hare murAre
    he nAtha nArAyaNa vAsudeva
    Last edited by smaranam; 20 March 2015 at 12:36 PM. Reason: in, not is

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