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Thread: 'r'

  1. #11
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    Re: 'r'

    Namaste Mana,

    Quote Originally Posted by Mana View Post
    Namaste devotee,

    It certainly is a beautiful script, Interesting to read of candrabindu; Just yesterday I have learned that the correct spelling of chandra is actually candra. Although tables are wonderfully helpful once a system is understood, I find them very difficult to learn from; perhaps because I have not been taught how to study them correctly. Often, trying to seek the algorithm from which a table is constructed; so as to assist me is seeing them more easily in my minds eye; it is a highly mercurial habit of mine for better or for worse; Perhaps the reason that has initiated my original question.

    Thank you for your concise response I shall give them much thought, then print out the pdf and see If I can absorb some of the undoubted wisdom there within though I find learning with out speaking or hearing to be quite a difficult affair.

    I am fascinated to learn more of the transformation from verbal to written tradition in Sanskrit; has this perhaps been studied by any learned Indian scholars? I believe that there is a long tradition of writing also but perhaps the support was so fragile as to not have lasted over the years; Is there any truth in my assumption; For an example was Pāṇini work written down or communicated verbally?
    By seeing your interest in sanskrit, I would advise you to join Online Sanskrit Course. Chinmaya Mission offers course of 15-30 months for teaching Sanskrit Online. They have provision to play audio while teaching so that you know the correct pronunciation of characters/words. If you are interested you may try this website :

    http://easysanskrit.chinfo.org/cif

    Please forgive my many questions; I am trying to learn how to learn and have always been very inquisitive when I would perhaps be better enable, were I to memorise the tables; is this done with rhyme or chant In schools in India ... ?
    The tables are memorised by chanting like children do for memorising number tables. This won't need much effort. It is not as difficult as it appears in the beginning. Even if you memorise 2-3 tables to begin with, it will give you a lot of confidence.

    OM
    Last edited by devotee; 30 March 2015 at 04:48 AM.
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  2. #12
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    Re: 'r'

    Namaste Mana,

    Quote Originally Posted by Mana View Post
    You have translated above Tasya as (its); This morning whilst reading the srimad bhagavatam I have come across the word tasyām from which I have thought of your post here in the SB it is translated as "on the bank of the River Sarasvatī."

    Is this due perhaps to a difference in the essential understanding of the state of being, what it means to be; between the different languages? I would greatly appreciate your thoughts and clarification.
    "Tasya" is form of "He" or "It" with 6th vibhakti of Kaarak. Please see the table of "Sah" (meaning "He") below :

    Sah (m)Masculine Singular Dual Plural

    Nominative (1st) saḥ tau te
    VocativeAccusative (2nd) tam tau tān
    Instrumental (3rd) tena tābhyām taiḥ
    Dative (4th) tasmai tābhyām tebhyaḥ
    Ablative (5th) tasmāt tābhyām tebhyaḥ
    Genitive (6th) tasya tayoḥ teṣām
    Locative (7th) tasmin tayoḥ teṣu

    For It only the Nominative and Vocative Accusative cases are changed. Others remain the same :

    Tat (meaning "It", Neutar Gender) Masculine Singular Dual Plural

    Nominative (1st) Tat te tāni
    Vocative Accusative (2nd) Tat te tāni

    From 3rd to 7th vibhaktis would remain the same as for Sah meaning "He".

    *****************
    TasyAm doesn't mean "On the Bank of the River Sarasvati". TasyAm is locative form of Saa i.e. "She". "Tasya" is Sixth vibhakti for Sah (He, Masculine) .... for Feminine Gender i.e. Saa (She, feminine) has seventh (locative) form as TasyAm which means "In Her/ On her etc.". So, what you are reading is not an exact translation but commentary of the verse where the writer has added words/phrases/his own opinion to make the meaning of the verses easier for the reader. You may have to read Word-by-word translation to understand how the translation has been done.

    OM
    Last edited by devotee; 30 March 2015 at 05:27 AM.
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  3. #13
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    Re: 'r'

    Noun Declension Chart for सा (Saa)

    Case Singular Dual Plural
    1. Nominative (subject) सा (Saa)ते (Te) ताः (Taah)
    2. Accusative (object) ताम् (Taam) ते (Te) ताः (Taah)
    3. Instrumental (by) तया (Tayaa) ताभ्याम् (Taabhyaam) ताभिः (Taabhih)
    4. Dative (to) तस्यै (Tasyai) ताभ्याम् (Taabhyaam) ताभ्यः (Taabhyah)
    5. Ablative (from) तस्याः (Tasyaah) ताभ्याम् (Taabhyaam) ताभ्यः (Taabhyah)
    6. Genitive (of) तस्याः (Tasyaah) तयोः (Tayoh) तासाम् (Taasaam)
    7. Locative (in) तस्याम् (Tasyaam) तयोः (Tayoh) तासु (Taasu)
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  4. #14

    Re: 'r'

    Namaste to all,

    One thing I have not been able to get an answer on is how to pronounce letters like ṛ, ṝ, and r in Saṃskṛtam. That would be ऋ, ॠ, and र, respectively. Please remember that I am deaf and looking at this from the perspective of an American speaker.

    Dhanyavād

  5. #15

    Re: 'r'

    Namaste devotee,

    Thank you so much, I certainly have an idea forming now as to how the syntax is working; this website looks great and though the site is wonderful, in truth I seem to find it difficult to learn this way; Perhaps I am just not ready quite yet for the details.

    I have a digital copy of the śloka of the bṛhatpārāśarahorāśāstram and I am trying to order them with a book translation that I have, as there are a few differences; in so doing I see now that I am able to understand more and more words; Perhaps now it is time to really study the details though the time aspect of web courses seem to stop me studying and make me want to copy every thing; perhaps I have a innate fear due to my complete failure to emerge from an occidental education with any thing at all. The bṛhatpārāśarahorāśāstram just makes sense to me and the Sanskrit language with that also; it is in combining the two that I am able to learn best, perhaps when I am a little more advanced in My Jyotiṣa study I will take the Chinmaya Mission course.

    Thanks again for your help; I shall research these tables for now for reference whilst I work; they will I think be a very good start.

    Kind Regards.
    8i8

  6. #16

    Re: 'r'

    Namaste deafAncient,

    Perhaps you could consider taking up a musical instrument? This young lady taught the pundits a thing or two.

    http://www.ted.com/talks/evelyn_glen..._how_to_listen

    Americans tend towards an association between music and alcohol; Perhaps this will eventually slur the nations speech ...
    Nice to meet you deafAncient.
    8i8

  7. #17

    Re: 'r'

    Dear devotee,

    Reading through the pdf that you have recommended to me it would seem that I can now hear the vowels pronounced in my mind, so there must have been some subconscious development, a motivating realisation; I am thoroughly mercurial and as such need to learn accordingly many courses and such are more very much more jupitarian, which tends not to work for me unless a teacher or a class are present.

    Singing with others would be the best way for me to learn as I struggle with visual input, whilst hearing very well, unfortunately most think that they are too grown up for this ...
    Oh dear the woes of being mercurial.

    I shall persist with this pdf for now it seems to be taking me in just the right direction.
    8i8

  8. #18

    Re: 'r'

    Namaste,

    In the Hindi script "namaskār" is written as follows:

    Oh dear I can't copy and paste from an "Adobe" document; that is essentially why I now run Linux and not windows, to believe that you own a script is beyond ridiculous; Please excuse my rant.

    I notice that the candrabindu is very different in modern script, where as in classical Sanskrit is not present; is there any distinct reason for this upachaya I wonder, or just the passage if time?

    नमस्कार्
    namaskār
    Last edited by Mana; 31 March 2015 at 04:16 AM.
    8i8

  9. #19
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    Re: 'r'

    Quote Originally Posted by Mana View Post
    In the Hindi script "namaskār" is written as follows:

    I notice that the candrabindu is very different in modern script, where as in classical sanscrit is not present; is there any distinct reason for this upachaya?

    नमस्कार्
    namaskār
    Chandrabindu (written with upwards half circle with a dot inside) has a stressed nasal sound as in बाँटना . Yes, in Old Sanskrit I have not found much use of this sound. They instead use Anuswaar i.e. just a bindu above the consonant which is also nasal sound but is not that stressed.

    Actually all the characters, MAtrAs and symbols are related with sound. If you need that particular sound, you use the symbol. In Hindi Namaskaar is used with full "r" + 'a' and not with halanth as you have shown. It should be
    नमस्कार .

    OM


    Last edited by devotee; 31 March 2015 at 04:25 AM.
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  10. #20

    Re: 'r'

    Namaste Mana,

    I have no idea why you talked about learning to play a musical instrument. Either someone knows how to pronounce the letters as requested or not. Maybe you didn't read this elsewhere before.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaud1Zve-SY
    www.deafdrummer.org

    This does not help with pronunciation of these letters. I have been trying to resolve this lack of knowledge for several years to no avail. In fact, as I'm about to leave the area for a different part of Texas tomorrow to work a different faire, I'm going to seek out a college with a Saṃskṛtam course or department to see if they can clear that up for me.

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