Is Mind the Converter of Consciousness to Energy ?

[kallol]

Om

Namaste


Questions, questions and questions !!! This mind is never satisfied.

What drives the entity called Mind ? Of course Consciousness. So consciousness is the fuel for mind. What is its output ?

Again Mind is the entity which is the mover and also the origin of energy. These three layers of Consciousness, Subtle matter, Gross matter manifest and un-manifest into each other. In scientific term it converts and un-converts. In both direction it requires vehicle or means to convert.

Should I assume that Mind (made out of subtle matter) is the converter of Consciousness to Energy ? It seems more likely to me. If not what are the means by which each layer manifests and un-manifests into each other ?

If that is so what is the means by which Energy converts to Consciousness ?

[Mana]

Namaste kallol,

What a wonderful thought to have and question to pose.

To my mind this is the essence of vāyu tattva and of its concordant sound, in vibration this oscillation is the signal of our thought; carried upon the material of mind stuff as budhi, which is often mistaken for mind, and we might hope to eventually find the essence of this, as we remove all of the tattva them selves that are vibrating, we are left with just the signal om.

mana is the heart and this is also essential in understanding mind as manas, the rhythm of which is intimately related to our chandas, to our thought which is imbibed, we hope, with dhī.

aum, uma, mau ...

To my mind, mind is thus a product of the friction between consciousness and matter; the energy is all three. Perhaps though, it is the friction that brings the two others together, time is not manifest at this level.

Just some thoughts for your consideration; these are of my favourite topics; thank you for directing my thought this way, kind regards.

Don't take my word for any of the above; food for your thought is all that is intended.


Kind regards.

[devotee]

Namaste,

What drives the entity called Mind ? Of course Consciousness. So consciousness if the fuel for mind. What is its output ?

If you allow me, I would like to rephrase the above understanding. Consciousness is not fuel for mind ... but is the substratum of mind ... its very essence. May be I am saying the same thing in different words.

Again Mind is the entity which is the mover and also the origin of energy. These three layers of Consciousness, Subtle matter, Gross matter manifests and un-manifests into each other. In scientific term it is converts and un-converts. In both direction it requires vehicle or means to convert.

Should I assume that Mind (made out of subtle matter) is the converter of Consciousness to Energy ? It seems more likely to me. If not what are the means by which each layer manifests and un-manifests into each other ?

I would say that you are perfectly right (except that the conversion is only apparent). However, mind works at two levels : Cosmic level and individual level. The mind at individual level is essentially non-different from the Cosmic mind but due to being "covered" in many layers of past impressions, tendencies and wrong identification, is more limited to act as Cosmic mind can. The Cosmic mind creates Energy/objects etc. from "Consciousness" which can be perceived by individual minds in similar fashion i.e. what one individual mind perceives is also perceived by another individual mind.

If that is so what is the means by which Energy converts to Consciousness ?

Nothing is converted to any other thing in reality otherwise the One alone Reality would not remain the Reality. All changes are relative to our individual minds alone. If you take out minds from the changing process ... there is actually no change taking place anywhere. As long as Cosmic Mind and individual minds are there, the changes are there.

So, how to revert the process back ... by removing the reason behind the process i.e. the mind. The mind needs to be killed to see the reality. How can the mind be killed ? By killing the thought-waves within us. These thought-waves are responsible for the illusion of the entity we call mind. That is why Patanjali says, "Yogaschittavrittinirodhah" i.e. Controlling the mind-waves is Yoga i.e. union (with reality/Self). Here, the instruments prescribed are : Yama, Niyama, Aasan, PrANAyAm, PratyAhAr, DhArna, DhyAna, SamAdhi.

OM

[Mana]

Namaste Devotee Ji, Kallol Ji,

I lovely concordance this morning as I am currently reading the Śrīmad Bhāgavatam; this morning I read canto 3.6 on the status quo; I thouht straight away of this thread as I read Śloka 3.6.7 ...

sa vai viśva-sṛjāḿ garbho deva-karmātma-śaktimān

vibabhājātmanātmānam ekadhā daśadhā tridhā

The total energy of the mahat-tattva, in the form of the gigantic virāṭ-rūpa, divided Himself by Himself into the consciousness of the living entities, the life of activity, and self-identification, which are subdivided into one, ten and three respectively.

There is a wonderful synchronisity that can occur, whilst reading such divine works as the Śrīmad Bhāgavatam.

http://www.vedabase.net/sb/3/6/en

Kind regards.

[kallol]

Om

Namaste.

Excellent replies. Let us not leave it here. Let us further the discussion.

In great men's words we are bundle of conciousness. Everything is consciousness. That way it negates the duality. I am not going into that.

(As in gross world everything is out of energy, but again run by energy and will go back to energy. So all are bundles of energy)

Again the same consciousness manifests and un-manifests into subtle bodies and gross bodies. What triggers this manifestation and what enables this manifestation ?

As you have pointed out - the mind bereft of the desires, ego, memory, buddhi, etc, i.e. where there are no waves, is the state of consciousness.

Now even with little bit of attributes, the waves are there. These waves, which are output of mind because of the residual attributes, are the waves / dances of the energy. As I mentioned and had lengthy discussions in another thread, minds are the cumulations of the lower minds. From cells to the Cosmic mind, it connects and contributes towards the next higher layer minds. Each mind has attributes in some proportion of active and potential conditions. Active component condition will lead to the waves which act on and towards the next manifestation. This is where next manifestation layer (gross body) is born and also acted through. Consciousness manifests through mind and mind manifests through body.

Now if mind is not there, "I" is not there, and the vehicle to further knowledge is lost. That is why, we can utmost move our knowledge level to the edge of the mind -> consciousness, but not beyond mind. Thus consciousness always remain elusive to be known.

Of course convert is not the right word as nothing is getting converted however my intention was to see the role of mind as a bridge between consciousness and gross body.

What role does it play in manifestation of consciousness into gross body and subsequent un-manifestation ?

[Mana]

...
As you have pointed out - the mind bereft of the desires, ego, memory, buddhi, etc, i.e. where there are no waves, is the state of consciousness.

If I might beg to differ, but only very slightly; the mind never stills totally but becomes aware of waves produced externally, not internally; and there is a big difference. Ripples upon the same pool of consciousness, in the cosmic part of mind. Rather like the drowning man, who in realising that if he stops flapping, he can float, from which point it is really very easy to swim.

What role does it play in manifestation of consciousness into gross body and subsequent un-manifestation ?

What is the meaning of life?

It is 42 ...

Or, self propagation through the realisation of that.

However, being that that is the only thing that stops self consummation ,other than great disaster. Perhaps we are not so very good at this today; we might then take a long hard look at bhūloka's ecology, the balance of mothers nature; so as to better understand the way that mother breathes, and thus manifestation ...

A bridge analogy is a fine analogy that you make; we might also consider the bridge to be a part of a larger mechanism; perhaps just one spoke of a wheel.

Kind regards.

[kallol]

Om

Namaste

If I might beg to differ, but only very slightly; the mind never stills totally but becomes aware of waves produced externally, not internally; and there is a big difference. Ripples upon the same pool of consciousness, in the cosmic part of mind. Rather like the drowning man, who in realising that if he stops flapping, he can float, from which point it is really very easy to swim.

You are right Mind never stills and thus the cycle of birth and death at all levels. However mind, as I understand is almost synonymous with the fluctuations. Consciousness being attributeless cannot have ripples. Only from onwards mind state (subtle body level) it can have ripples. "I" being the representative of consciousness is the witness to these fluctuations of mind. "I" is permanently stationary, so it can observe any variation in mind.

What is the meaning of life?

It is 42 ... .

May be I have put it in wrong way. What role does mind play in manifestation and unmanifestion between consciousness and gross body ? I gave an analogy of converter - may be only to depict the essence.

[Mana]

May be I have put it in wrong way. What role does mind play in manifestation and unmanifestion between consciousness and gross body ? I gave an analogy of converter - may be only to depict the essence.

Oh I don't think so, that was a bit of a geeks joke refering to 42, you might not understand if you are from India; as it was reference to an English book which approaches the similar question in a very different way; in a comic fashion.

In response to your rephrasing and after having just recovered some of my jyotiṣa course notes; I have studied this subject like so: manas can be compared to a minister who serves the king, the king which is the soul. He interacts with the world through the senses and relays back that information, should he see fit to the king filtering out all that is unnecessary.

Now the thing is:

Should this minister who is mind, filtering all of the sense information for the souls consumption; Should he begin to feel that it is he who is king; then delusions abound.

Mind is like a minister to our soul; problems arise if the minister becomes corrupted.

Kind regards.

[kallol]

Mind just like Ministers are always corrupt - may be to varying degree

[Mana]

Exactly; this is why we have such a hard job seeing reality.

Tell me how it look out side the king requests ...
What is going on in the real world, what do people think, what do you think is best for the future ...

Ah, you see sir, the thing is it is like this ... Wave after wave of rubbish that we tell ourselves, to reaffirm our own illusions.

Kind regards.