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Thread: Should I totally give up on our Hindu religion ?

  1. #11
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    Re: Should I totally give up on our Hindu religion ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jaypee View Post


    " WHY DO BAD THINGS HAPPEN TO GOOD PEOPLE ? "

    namaste !
    It occurs to me that although good behavior is the reason why people flourish karmically, it makes more sense to me to think that those that vibe with the yuga-dharma may florish temporarily. Someone I know is of the view that public women (prostitutes), drug dealers, etc, will flourish for 1 lifetime following their lives of sin, because they have yielded 'sukha'/comforts to someone while they did it!

    Karma is very complex, coming to think of it in terms of the question you have arised, it may be comforting to think that there are, in practicality, much precious gems among people that live much, much lowly lives...
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

  2. #12
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    Re: Should I totally give up on our Hindu religion ?

    Namaste,

    The OP brought this issue to the forum couched as a religious issue and the forum members, rightfully so, answered with a religious slant. However, I see his post as a direct result of his economic condition. If he were fat and happy at this stage in his life, he would not have come to the forum or asked if he could drop Hinduism or deny the very existence of Divinity. It is all a matter of lack of greenbacks in his pocket that is making him say all the things about Hinduism and by extension about God. Let us keep that in mind. It is all about material state of one's existence that makes one challenge God, as if He is responsible for every wrong decision that one makes in his life.

    Pranam.

  3. #13

    Re: Should I totally give up on our Hindu religion ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Believer View Post
    Namaste,

    The OP brought this issue to the forum couched as a religious issue and the forum members, rightfully so, answered with a religious slant. However, I see his post as a direct result of his economic condition. If he were fat and happy at this stage in his life, he would not have come to the forum or asked if he could drop Hinduism or deny the very existence of Divinity. It is all a matter of lack of greenbacks in his pocket that is making him say all the things about Hinduism and by extension about God. Let us keep that in mind. It is all about material state of one's existence that makes one challenge God, as if He is responsible for every wrong decision that one makes in his life.

    Pranam.
    Namaste And Jai Hanuman !,

    Thank You everyone for all the valuable input, it's greatly appreciated !. Pranam, no this has nothing to do with money, do I pray and help others unconditionally only when I have money, the answer is NO !. For example, I was in a very bad situation last year and although we lost everything that we had earned in last 30+ years, we were committed to building a water well in Africa and I raised enough money with friends and my own family that we completed the project !. This has nothing to do with money, we praise the lord in any condition that we have to live in. The point that I made is that it's very discouraging if you go for two years with problems at every corner and you feel that everything that you have worked for in last 30+ years in slipping away fast, and NO I am not talking about money, but rather peace and happiness. Yes money cannot buy you happiness, but if you were in my shoes at this age and you have to extend your hand to your child for a dollar, well that hurts !. In this situation, no matter how devoted you are, you lose faith, not only in God but everyone around you as you feel helpless and lonely. At my age, I cannot even get a job at Walmart ! and I am trying to find any kind of job so I can have few dollars to buy gas and food.. and I am too proud to ask anyone for help, and that is the reality. Now I know how the homeless guy on the street asking for a dollar feels, it's easy to criticize him for not getting a job but only he knows the pain and suffering that he has been through to be in this position, the God won't come down and feed him, he has to do whatever he can to feed himself.

    Namaste !

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    Re: Should I totally give up on our Hindu religion ?


  5. Re: Should I totally give up on our Hindu religion ?

    Namaste laypee,

    Non attachments to the fruits of our deeds is critical in surviving kāliyug; even if we have but one ounce of goodness; for in this age it is the most depraved who succeed.

    Become spiritual like the greats, the mahāpuruṣa; drop religion that you do not need, become truly spiritual; I can hear from your tone that you are already that.

    If you are so blessed to have a son who is capable to help you; this is because of the good deeds that you have already done, a very real blessing, it is thus his karma to fulfil and to assist you when you need it. Do not feel ashamed by this it is how family’s and dhārma are founded, don't be mislead by modern media that dharma will not last the ravages of time. You are likely are a person with very high ideals; which is excellent and most praiseworthy in any one, rarer than the norm of cruel bickering mediocrity in this world where said mediocrity and depravity rule; you will be down trodden. Rise up with spiritual energy and find then the strength to help others again, such as is the true nature of your good self.

    I am studying jyotiṣa with my guru and would gladly offer you some clarification of your situation if it can perhaps be of some help to you; know that this vedāṅga is an essence by which we can truly understand the veda, as such; might this not take some prescience over any perception that you now hold, as to what is religion; are you interested foremost by reality; or by mundane rituals that imitate it, perhaps this is the dawning of your true spiritual path?

    If with my limited knowledge of jyotiṣa I can give you any guidance; I will do so gladly; Perhaps just a few words of encouragement are all that are required. It is difficult to gauge from your tone alone with out also seeing your chart.

    So in answer to your question: "Should I totally give up on our religion" I would say yes do just that, adopt a spiritual practise that will allow you to better understand religion; whilst continuing upon your own path; which is clearly that of a higher understanding. Then when you do practise again upon a mundane level; you will again shine with a guiding light, as you have stated to have done before.

    Do not expect anything in return from those whom you might help; they do not see with your eyes, nor should they.

    Kind regards.
    8i8

  6. Re: Should I totally give up on our Hindu religion ?

    Namaste Sahasranama,

    Quote Originally Posted by Sahasranama View Post
    Simply divine; thank you for posting.
    8i8

  7. #17

    Re: Should I totally give up on our Hindu religion ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jaypee View Post
    I have been a devout Hindu since I was born. Throughout my life, I have done nothing but follow our religion and help other people , no matter what my situation was. I helped people that came to me for business advise, food, money, or any kind of help, day and night I went out of my way to help them . I would put my own work aside and help them. Now those same families are millionaire and don't have a second of time for me !.

    After 23 years in my IT job, the company downsized and I lost my job, so we started a small business with what we had, once again no one helped us not only financially but even to take five minutes of their time to advise us as they were in the same business for last 20 years and these are the same people that I had helped.

    In my business, we helped everyone , the staff found out that we were kind at heart and they all took advantage of us and started stealing from us. When the economy turned, things got worse and the staff and all the people that were around our business took full advantage of us . Everyday we would have some problem and it got to a point that we lost everything, all our life saving was gone !. As people found out that our business was in trouble, they took full advantage of us , pretending that they are there to help, and ended taking over the business and putting us out !.

    Every corner we turn, there is a problem, no matter what we do, we just can't seem to make any progress. We were very involved with the local Sanatan Mandir, the Hindu priest there is a part of our family, in fact we helped him to come to USA !. Every time we bring this problem to him or anyone else, their standard answer is that it's " kalaug " and this well happen and brush it off !. The other famous answer is that " oh well you are suffering because of your past life and no one can help you ! " .. and so on and on ... with no real solution !.

    We are so fed up that at this age of retirement that we have to extend our hand to our only child for help !.. By doing everything according to our dharma and being a good person at all times and praying everyday.. is this our punishment ?.. people around us are so selfish and egocentric and these are the families that we helped settle here and no matter what they do and how they treat people, everything falls in their laps.. is this fair ?..

    We do not want any money, we just want guidance where we can make a little money to support my wife and myself, without going to our child for every dollar !.. does anyone know how demeaning that is !.. because of all this, I believe that there is no god and all these stories of how god is fair and help people who are good and honest is just a fantasy !..

    Should I totally give up on our religion ?
    Namaste Jaypee,

    No, it is not fair. And this is one of the deepest questions of Mankind. Basically there are tree answers:
    1 - We are floating on the waves of chance
    2 - It is Gods will
    3 - it is our own doing

    Whatever answer you pick, none of them will make you feel better about your present situation. But 1 and 2 will make you feel pretty powerless. Believing God seems to hate you, is the worst of all as it undermines your self-respect most. Two thousands years ago the great Jewish scholar Hillel said. Why good people have to suffer and evil people seem to thrive is a question we will never solve.

    Well, Hinduism is one of the few religions that does have an answer, even if any answer does not change our immediate situation. But it can make us understand our present situation better. The answer is that whatever we experience is the result of past actions.

    But we have to understand that with some relativity. It is not purely our own actions, it is also the actions of those we are connected with. If a father loses his job, his whole family suffers because of the connections. If a leader makes mistakes his people suffer. So we undergo results of our own actions and those we connect with.

    Another thing we need to understand is that if you do good to a noble person, he will want to repay that. That is what actually makes a noble person. A noble person does not want to be in the debt with others. That is why the Devas, being the most noble of all, will help us if we are sincere in our worship and ask for help. But if we do good to people of low consciousness they will not return the favour. For egotistic people find it normal to be helped but not to help others, because it is all about them. Does that mean that we have ourselves to blame, and our good actions bare no fruit?

    No that is not true either, but we may want to understand that the reward will not come from the same people we did good to when we do good to less noble people. So we are wise to surround us with people that have the same elevated nature as ourselves, not to meet disappointment in people. But that is only possible to a degree. I have often seen that people are being abused by people least expected, their own family, partners, and children. That more likely is the punishment for egotistical people, but it can also happen to noble people. And that fate is even harder to bare.

    Do not blame yourself. Doing good is not a choice for the noble person, he does it from the heart and without thought of the consequences. And it is a reward in itself to be such a person. You really do not want to be anyone else even if on the surface they seem to fare better. Because the outer things say very little about inner happiness. Those people that die with the knowledge of have acted good, die with far more peace of mind and during life they feel much better about themselves and have greater happiness and longer periods of happiness.

    But happiness never is an enduring state on Earth. And being sensitive people, we need to learn to cope with the harshness of life too. If you read the Ramayana you will find that the people are extremely sensitive and loving and courteous at the court. But Rama and his brothers are sent to an ashram at very young age. Why? To harden them for what life brings. Their lives will be as a hard penance, the Guru says. So being a noble person does not mean that life will not be hard on you. Life will lay the heaviest burdens on the strongest shoulders. And the strong will carry them complaining the least.

    The Ramayana and Mahabharata also shows that even the noblest of all people have to undergo terrible suffering for what are no more than unintended mistakes. To meet great adversity we do not have to willingly do great harm. Noble King Dasarath dies of sorrow because he has to send his son Ram into exile. The cause is he accidentally shot a young boy mistaking him for a deer. Bhishma has to suffer tremendously for stealing a deer for his wife. No good act he does ever carries fruit. He is destined to fail in everything he does. Still would these people have been happier if they had been anything less than noble? Surely not! It is their noble nature that lets them suffer for all their shortcomings. Because the more elevated one becomes, the more aware one becomes about ones shortcomings. Only decent people feel deep shame.

    And that is why you feel shame to you wife, to your son. And that is why you are highly disappointed in your friends and other Hindus you helped.

    Is Hinduism a better religion than others? I am convinced it is. It gives us answers much deeper than any other religion. Does this make Hindus better people than lets say westerners in general? I do not believe so. Why not?

    Lets put it this way: In my country nearly all people can swim, and many are fine swimmers. Does this mean that my people are more naturally talented swimmers than peoples from other countries? No not at all, it happens that my country is full of water, water is everywhere. So children are taught to swim at a very early age. They know how to behave when they fall in the water.

    So we can say that what people learn is not so much an extension of what they are, but rather what they need. If in Hinduism there is so much stress on keeping down the ego, that is not because Hindus are born with such moderate ego's but rather such big ones. I have met Hindus that are truly excellent people and a jewel to their kind, but I also regularly meet Hindus with oversized pride and ego. If Hinduism has created a polite interaction that is to spare their ego's from being insulted. In my country people are very direct, even blunt. If you look bad, they will say: You look like ****. How come? Because in my country people are not easily offended. Their egos aren't that big. They can tolerate more without being offended.

    But if one lives with the idea that Hindus in general are a better kind of people, more noble, more sincere, more social then one can easily becomes disappointed by overestimating people that share one's own civilized manners. But to see true nature one has to look deeper. A noble person is recognized by his kindness to all others. People like you who help unselfishly are not common.

    People feel best when surrounding themselves with people of similar nature. It is important to recognize that and make the right friends. When Rama and his brothers are sent to the Ashram it is also to bond him as his brothers to become a strong team. In the same way the Pandavas are sent to an Ashram were they learn to form a team. The five Pandavas are like a hand. The strong Bhima being the tumb, The ace archer Arjuna being the pointing finger, The central decision maker Yuddhistir being the middle finger, The handsome Nakul every women wants to marry being the ring finger, the youthful and youngest Sahadeva being the pinky. But in times of need they draw together and become an invincible fist. As talented and noble each of them is, they still need each other.

    So what can we we learn without becoming cynical. Accept peoples true nature and understand that civilization is only a thin layer that hides this. Most people (Hindu or not) are not that noble, but will pretend to be if it is in their interest. Outer layers say nothing. Wealth does not make people generous and learning does not make them wise. Accept your own true nature as noble but also accept that even for the most noble people Life is hardship at times. Accept that reward often comes from a different direction than where you have thrown your good deeds. Consider yourself lucky to have led a good life and be of real assistance of others, even if those can not appreciate it. Would you not help an animal trapped, even it will just run or fly away without thanking you? And will it not give you a good feeling anyway? Are you not blessed with a loving Wife and Son, and are those not great gifts?

    Understand your blessings and that hardship is always on the menu of life, like Sunshine and Rain are always alternating. You who have always cared about others are now overcome with self-pity? That does not suit you. It is your sons duty to help you and there is no reason to feel too proud. Remember, what you have given comes back in other ways. There is no spiritual progress in wordily results only in the right action. When you give, give with two hands, because if you give with one hand, the other hand will want to receive something back. But as you are not like that, find your happiness in that your actions did bare fruit and do not question they will bare fruit for you as well. How much worse would it be if like Bhishma all your good actions would only create trouble for others. As yours did not, they surely will benefit you as well.

    So stop feeling bad but rather blessed and start acting again. Because the power of believing in the results of our own actions is that we can always influence our situation. It may be hard at times, but we can have confidence our good actions will create good results. But from now on try to be more more intelligent about it. Stop believing Hindus are better people, more noble, less selfish, less ego driven. It is not a good criteria. Do not confuse the wisdom of Hinduism with the nobility of Hindus in general. Because such supremacist we-thoughts are an extension of the ego. Life is great teacher even if we do not like all its lessons.

    Good luck to you!
    Last edited by Avyaydya; 03 May 2015 at 12:13 PM.

  8. #18

    Re: Should I totally give up on our Hindu religion ?

    Thank You so much for taking the time to write such beautiful and comforting words !. Thank You !. What hurt me most was that the people in our family that would not lift a finger to help when we did everything to help them and make them so wealthy !. but now I do see your point and everyone else on here.. the main point being that you have to surround yourself with a few good friends that think like you and ignore the rest so there is less likelihood that these people can take advantage of you. ( As a side note, is there anyway that I can contact you and others on here via personal email and keep this positive thoughts on track ? ) ..

    Thank You again to everyone for so much insight on my issue.. Namaste !

  9. #19
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    Re: Should I totally give up on our Hindu religion ?

    Namaste,

    Quote Originally Posted by jaypee View Post
    What hurt me most was that the people in our family that would not lift a finger to help when we did everything to help them and make them so wealthy.
    That is very unfortunate - kasame, vaade, payaar, vafaayen...baaten hain, baton ka kaya (Approx translation of a poet's thoughts - vows, promises, expressions of love, faithfulness...these are mere meaningless words).

    May He help/guide you in this sad phase of life. Best wishes.

    Pranam.

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    Re: Should I totally give up on our Hindu religion ?

    Namaste Jaypee,

    I am extremely sorry for missing to see your age while replying. I can now understand the feeling of hurt and helplessness you are going through. I can't think of a solution right now as I don't know in what environment you are in. I can only pray to God for your well being.

    Don't worry but recollect yourself and see ... there still must be some good friends who you can contact for help in getting a job or whatever.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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