Hindu Deity's and their effects. Seperating Reality from Superstition.

[Spirit Seeker]

Namaste everone, It's been some time since i've posted on this forum.

I have a question with respect for sincere devotees on the power and influence of the devatas and how they interact with humans on a personal level. I already understand opinions and views may vary, but what I'm looking for is personal experience.

I'll keep it brief, I have a Guyanese hindu friend that tells me a lot about her culture and the Hindu Practices there. I'm not sure how hinduism may vary from south america to India. But I hear of some controversial practices that involve rituals and invocation of Hindu Gods (For example, Kali Ma) intent to inflict harm upon another person.(black magick) I have heard of many anecdotes, as these practices are a big reality in her culture and how some people will use the Goddess energy for wicked purposes.

I was wondering where does one draw the line on the nature of a Deity/Devata , separating fact from superstition. Most discussions I come across here on the nature of a deity are mostly on an academic/intellectual level, but not so much on a personal level.

So my questions are, do devas and devi punish?

Do Devas and devi get Jealous?

Will a Deva or Devi ever agree to inflict harm upon a person(even kill a person) if offered with an appropriate ritual or sacrifice to appease them?

Do devas choose to connect with you(A spiritual calling for devotion), or do you seek them out?

I ask these questions because of personal experience, I feel very drawn to be devoted to Kali Ma. But when I hear of controversial views surrounding Kali Ma about her nature, it causes me to be cautious.

I dont hear such stories about hindu gods in america or Europe(Most persons believers or not would call it superstition), but when it comes to Indigenous areas or less modern country's where Magic and ritual is a common practice and a reality for these people, they live and witness and experience both the good and the bad of what they believe deva/devi bring for their culture and environment.

I know Kali is an intense energy, but I dont believe she is Malicious as some Hindu's make her out to be.

What are your views and experiences? And any advice for my approach for devotion and worship to Kali ma. Reassurance if any on the proper protocol.

Thank you friends.

[devotee]

Namaste Spirit Seeker,

I'll keep it brief, I have a Guyanese hindu friend that tells me a lot about her culture and the Hindu Practices there. I'm not sure how hinduism may vary from south america to India. But I hear of some controversial practices that involve rituals and invocation of Hindu Gods (For example, Kali Ma) intent to inflict harm upon another person.(black magick) I have heard of many anecdotes, as these practices are a big reality in her culture and how some people will use the Goddess energy for wicked purposes.

The so -called "Black Magic" is basically using your "own powers" for wrong purposes. Our mind is extremely powerful and its power gets manifest with the quantum of faith supplied to it. So, your strong belief in some mantra, some ritual etc. makes your hidden power of mind manifest as the power of mantra or the ritual etc. This power can be used for good purposes and even wicked purposes. However, this use of power is within our MAyic creation ... and it is not God who does anything wrong or good by such powers ... but it is your own mind's power which has become manifest due to unfailing faith in a certain mantra-recitation or ritual. The reality is that you are going far away from God by getting entangled in the magic of such powers. You are actually a sufferer and you are accruing serious Karma by indulging into such things.

Mother Kaali can grant you Mukti, Self-realisation if you are a selfless devotee on the path of renunciation and knowledge and even pure selfless Bhakti. However, this form can be misused for petty magic as you have stated but in that case this form of Kaali that you worship won't bestow upon you Self-realisation and Mukti because this form has not been worshipped with that selfless/desireless motive or even with benign motive. TAntriks have used this form for selfish purposes and even for evil purposes ... but it is road to destruction ... there is no doubt over it. Please stay away from it. Mother Kaali has no form ... Lord Shiva has no form ... they are Infinite ... all pervading like the subtle Sky. It is our mind which brings them into form ... it is upto you what use you make of this form.

It is height of foolishness to think that mother can be appeased by sacrificing some live animal ... but still people do it. Due to strong faith in this ritual they may get what they are trying for but it comes with a heavy price-tag. That is why the people who take shelter of such tantrik rituals are never happy ... even they seem to be successful at a certain point of time, they fall into great troubles at some point of time !!

My dear friend, please stay away from all such things ... at least a few kilometers away.

God bless you ....

OM

[Spirit Seeker]

Namaste Devotee,

Thank you for your reply. I dont get close to such things, but I had to inquire since different sects of shakta worshippers will approach Mother Differently, and they normally get out of what they put into it.

I just needed the Reassurance that I can Love and be devoted to Ma Kali without being "burned" per se because of the quality of her energy composition and her nature and place in God's Creation. I hear good things about Ma Kaali as well as I hear some devestating and terrible things, and these are coming from Hindu's themselves. I dont believe Ma Kaali is Malicious, I believe Ma kaali is beyond concepts of "good" and "evil".

I dont believe Devi "punishes". Do you think that any perceived trial, negativity, and affliction that the divine incorporates into one's life ultimately build towards a greater good that we are blinded from in the moment? What are your thoughts?

Thank you. God Bless.

[devotee]

Namaste SS,

I just needed the Reassurance that I can Love and be devoted to Ma Kali without being "burned" per se because of the quality of her energy composition and her nature and place in God's Creation. I hear good things about Ma Kaali as well as I hear some devestating and terrible things, and these are coming from Hindu's themselves. I dont believe Ma Kaali is Malicious, I believe Ma kaali is beyond concepts of "good" and "evil".

Mother will take the form as you desire. So, if you want her to be with devastating energy, it would be so. If you want her to be a caring and loving mother ... as simple and as sweet as you want her to be ... she will be like that. It is like plain water where reflection of our own colored world makes it appear as red, blue or whatever. I see mother as the sweetest loving mother, I ever had in my all incarnations, ... and I keep asking her to pour her sweetest love on me for ever and keep enjoying her love. Why see her as fearsome or violent ... ? All forms are her own ... It is she who creates, who nurtures us like a baby and it is she who brings destruction. In what form would like to see your ver own mother ... the Only Real Mother you have ... and all other mothers in all your incarnations were just reflections of this Real Mother ? Why tag yourself as ShAkta or whatever ... be a child to your own mother and keep talking to her every moment and see how she responds.

I dont believe Devi "punishes". Do you think that any perceived trial, negativity, and affliction that the divine incorporates into one's life ultimately build towards a greater good that we are blinded from in the moment? What are your thoughts?

What did you do when you committed mistake and your worldly mother got angry with you in this life ? You simply asked for forgiveness and promised not to repeat the same mistake ... right ? Why don't do the same thing to your Real Mother ? Just pour your heart out without any deceit or cleverness and accept your mistake and ask her to forgive you. How can a Mother's heart not melt with such an innocent prayer ? It will. There is no doubt.

Yes, there are Laws of Karma which are always in action to punish you at the opportune time for all your bad karmas. But here also, Mother's love can save you. Ask for her forgiveness like Her own child ... with same feeling and with same faith on her love, if possible more, as you had with your worldly mother. If you are able to connect with Mother like this, there is no Karma for you to punish you. The problem is not how big our faults/sins are ... the problem is that we are never able to connect to the Mother with pure love and sincerity towards her.

Why bother about anything ? ... why not surrender yourself to her unconditionally ? Let her decide for you. Why bother our small mind for such things ??

OM

[JaiMaaDurga]

**Edit: I see there has been good discussion since I pressed the reply button, bear in mind there were no replies when I started typing! **

Namaste Spirit Seeker,

I will answer only from my personal experience, which is what you are asking- of course, that being said, I must insist that you do not construe my words as representative/authoritative, or as anything else
other than one simple Shakta's perspective.

I shall deal with the specific questions first, in the order asked:

Do the deities punish?
No more than space "punishes" an astronaut who removes their helmet during a space-walk.

Do they get jealous?
No- it simply that one may lie to others, and even lie to oneself, but never to Self.

Will they ever agree to harm/kill a person, etc.?
Such things are by their very nature of the asuras, and the antithesis of Divinity. Devi or any deity is not a cosmic vending machine or assassin-for-hire.

Do they connect with you, or do you seek them out?
I believe "both"- in my particular case, one could say I spent many years stomping about, loudly demanding answers from the universe, before finally my ultimate exhaustion allowed enough peace and quiet to hear Devi's call

Maa Kali is beyond even time itself- malice is something that belongs to humans and asuras.

How to approach Maa Kali? One step at a time.. never forget, there is nobody that needs to be impressed. It might seem absurd, but don't be afraid to ask Her for help in finding the right path to Her!

Be sincere, be honest, keeping seeking knowledge; do not be in a hurry, but do keep the goal of drawing closer to Her always in view, no matter the distractions along the way.

There is little more I can offer, I am hoping that other, wiser members reply also- if some of my words are too muddy, tell me and I shall try to clarify.

I hope this has been of some help, may Devi bless your future path-

JAI MATA DI

[Spirit Seeker]

Namaste,

Thank you devotee for assisting and clearing up my mind on the matter of Devotion. I have read great works such as Sri Ramakrishana and Sarada devi's devotion to Maa Kaali, such beautiful love and devotion towards the Divine Mother that are Authentic exactly how you describe, and yet sadly I still hear many Misunderstood and Sad things that is associated with Kali Worship such things I have mentioned, or even human sacrifice(Some still practice this although it's rare). This is what caused caution and confusion within me. I know nothing after all , I am just a seeker.

It must really differ from region then.

Namaste SS,

Yes, there are Laws of Karma which are always in action to punish you at the opportune time for all your bad karmas. But here also, Mother's love can save you. Ask for her forgiveness like Her own child ... with same feeling and with same faith on her love, if possible more, as you had with your worldly mother. If you are able to connect with Mother like this, there is no Karma for you to punish you. The problem is not how big our faults/sins are ... the problem is that we are never able to connect to the Mother with pure love and sincerity towards her.

This I have been contemplating on karma for quite some time recently. Now that you brought it up. I know Karma is a very very complicated subject to discuss, and I wouldn't want to go too far off topic from my thread. How one connects "free will" with "Determinism" as life passess us by in this incarnation. So any significant life moments positive, negative, trials or calamity's is a result of accumulation of past karmas from previous existences that determined an event or circumstance at a certain point in one's life? Can the divine intervene and compromise to an extent our karmic outcome, or do the devi let the karmic unfoldement come to pass on it's own without influencing it? I might be too inquisitive, I'm just trying to better grasp my personal experiences better.

While I was in Guyana last year, I was exposed to the Hinduism practiced there. Ma Kali abruptly manifested into my life, it was intense.. I didn't seek her out, she sought me out.. It validated a lot of things in my life that lead up to then, like an "Aha!" moment. "Now it all makes sense! You were always around." My experience there was more along the lines of personal mysticism which would be really difficult for me to discuss openly on this forum, but I have been told that it was my Karma that inevitably drew me and Mother Kali together in this life. She was very Personal in her interaction. I haven't been the same since..

[Spirit Seeker]

Namaste JaiMaaDurga,

Thank you for your response as well as answering my questions pleasantly!

**Edit: I see there has been good discussion since I pressed the reply button, bear in mind there were no replies when I started typing! **


Will they ever agree to harm/kill a person, etc.?
Such things are by their very nature of the asuras, and the antithesis of Divinity. Devi or any deity is not a cosmic vending machine or assassin-for-hire.
JAI MATA DI

Just to clarify, I know this question might sound absurd to even ask this to some here, I wasnt sure how to ask properly or if it may offend someone. As I said browsing the forum, I see more overwhelming discussion about devi's and deva on an intellectual/academic level, rather than on the relative and personal level, their habits, moods, personality's etc.

But it sadly happens from what I hear, if it's false and not really the Devi personally engaging, there are those groups that believe they can harness devi's energy for their own selfish wicked whims and desires.

Thank you for your advice.

[devotee]

Namaste SS,

So any significant life moments positive, negative, trials or calamity's is a result of accumulation of past karmas from previous existences that determined an event or circumstance at a certain point in one's life? Can the divine intervene and compromise to an extent our karmic outcome, or do the devi let the karmic unfoldement come to pass on it's own without influencing it?

Karma is attached to us only as long as we cling to our false identity as a separate being from Mother. Once we can free ourselves from this false identification, there are no Karmas. However, as long as we are unable to come to that point, Laws of Karma work. Whatever happens whether good or bad is decided by our Karmas ... it is not just the past Karma but also the present Karma. God is beyond these laws ... as these Laws are part of Prakriti i.e. Nature and God is master of Prakriti. If God wills, anything is possible even getting freedom from Karma reducing the effect of Karma. The problem is how we are able to connect with God. You have to connect with Him/Her with all love of His/Her child with pure innocence ... that is the only requirement.

While I was in Guyana last year, I was exposed to the Hinduism practiced there. Ma Kali abruptly manifested into my life, it was intense.. I didn't seek her out, she sought me out.. It validated a lot of things in my life that lead up to then, like an "Aha!" moment. "Now it all makes sense! You were always around." My experience there was more along the lines of personal mysticism which would be really difficult for me to discuss openly on this forum, but I have been told that it was my Karma that inevitably drew me and Mother Kali together in this life. She was very Personal in her interaction. I haven't been the same since..

So, you already have Her grace ! Don't let it go. Cling hard to Mother to be Free.

OM

[Viraja]

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