Married for 3rd or 6th time?

[deafAncient]

Namaskāra

How does anyone know whether they have been married to the same Self over the course of 2 or 5 lifetimes? I noticed that marriage rituals state that a couple is together for 7 lifetimes.

What happens if the couple doesn't meet for 3 or 4 lifetimes (because they're born in different places or even different planets) before they meet and marry again? Does it mean that they go without marriage in their entire lives until they meet again? Or is it that they marry in every life, and everyone they marry, they are tied to them for seven lifetimes? Meaning if Shannon married Joe, Mike, Aamir, Tushar, Sunil, etc. in different lives, does this mean that she's tied to all of them for a total of 35 lifetimes, no matter whether in sequence or not?

How is this determined?

[Believer]

Namaste,

I noticed that marriage rituals state that a couple is together for 7 lifetimes.

Oh no, once is enough!
Just kidding.

Pranam.

[devotee]

Namaste,

I don't think such a claim has any Vedic scriptures' support. It is highly unlikely that two persons get wedded again in next life. This is because of their different Karmas and the different times of death and the time by which they can get another birth. In fact, Upanishads say that a wife in this life can be your mother in your next life or a mother in your this life can be your wife in the next life. So, all the relationships are actually with the current bodies alone.

The Hindus emphasize a lot on the sanctity of marriages. This is basically to inculcate divine relationship between the two persons. So, that this relationship is not broken on flimsy grounds ... so that the couple remains dedicated to each other.

OM

[deafAncient]

Namaskāra!

LOL. I'm not familiar enough with the understanding of saṃskāra to know whether a person indeed does remember any details from previous lives, because I've heard that you really don't know the details, like "I remember she was standing next to me, working the aquaduct elevation project (we used our minds together to carry one of the ducts, made from reddish clay and measuring about .3 danda in diameter and about 30 dandas long, while weighing about 112 sacks of dal, which we would pass off to the next group of carriers before our mental strength became strained). She was 21 cycles of the sun, and I was 23 cycles of the sun when we met, I'd say about (calculating from Hindu calendar to Gregorian calendar) 3150 years ago. ..."

What I've heard is that all you have is a sense of saṃskāra, a vague sense, like for some reason you freak out in the presence of open seawater (maybe you died in a shipwreck or in a hurricane at sea), upon sight of a tornado (you either lost your family to one or you yourself died in one), but you don't know exactly why. The latter example of saṃskāra is my experience, the vague sense. The freakout over seawater on a boat as a child was my experience. It was either I died at sea, or I inherited genetic memories specifically from my grandfather Ellison, who survived the Galveston Hurricane of 1900 as an 11-year-old boy. He, his brothers, and his father Philo had to pick up dead bodies in town and off the beach and take them to morgues for processing. My freakout happened during my deaf years, probably about 4-5-6 years old at the time, as we were in Corpus Christi, TX then. I saw the glass bottom of this large boat while standing on the deck over the stair case leading down into the hull. As soon as I saw the water visible through the glass bottom, I freaked out. All I could sense at the time was abject fear, of danger, danger, danger, GET OFF, GET OFF, GET OFF!! All I could do was scream because I couldn't talk then. I can still relive that day over 40 years later. I don't remember anything beyond this present life when I relive that day of fear on the boat. I was told the story of the dead bodies by Dad over 30 years ago, but didn't connect this to the Hurricane until my stepmother told me about 7 or 8 years ago.

[Believer]

Namaste,

Never heard of this 7 go-around business, but I can share a story that a visiting swami told during one of his discourses here. He was unusual in that he used humor to keep people from getting bored with his sermon and dozing off. So, one day in the middle of his lecture he emphasized the need to treat everyone around you well and with respect. He said that the person you treat the worst will end up becoming your wife in your next rebirth and torment you for your whole life. Needless to say, there was a big laughter and people became attentive again for the next part of his sermon. So, that is how a man gets his wife - the person he treated badly in his past life!

Pranam.


PS, Tacit in the OP is the assumption that souls are gender oriented and they continue to take male or female bodies per their orientation in their consecutive rebirths. Is the gender neutrality of the souls or their orientation as males/females defined anywhere in the scriptures?

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam: I've never heard of this either, but I have heard of, as Believer says, stuff within the same family. For example, I'm quite convinced that I or my brother was also my uncle who passed in India in WW2.

As for gender, I've heard that it's basically random, depending on a variety of circumstance such as karma. It's always made sense to me, for example, that a chauvinist would be reborn as a woman, with a high likelihood of getting married to a chauvinist.

But yes, since out minds are so tied to gender in this lifetime, I think we extrapolate that quite naturally to include the souls, which goes against all Hindu wisdom on it.

Aum Namasivaya

[deafAncient]

Namaste Eastern Mind,

That is what I'm getting at - how do you know that you or your brother might have been in WWII? Is there a way to confirm this? I have to know who I am and why I'm here.

Praṇāma

[Eastern Mind]

Namaste Eastern Mind,

That is what I'm getting at - how do you know that you or your brother might have been in WWII? Is there a way to confirm this? I have to know who I am and why I'm here.

Praṇāma

Vannakkam: I don't know. What I do know is that he died from a fall off a power pole. His job was an electrical engineer, and he was stationed in Calcutta. My Mother always spoke fondly of him, although she was some 10 years his junior. There is a 'smarts' genetic factor running through our family that both my brother and I got, as well as the physical characteristics from that side. I used to thing I was him, because of innate fear of height and of electricity, but lots of people have that. Now I lean towards me being a Hindu that he befriended, and I 'followed' him back to Canada. That actually makes more sense. It better explains the Hinduness in me. Mom had pictures Uncle had sent of Hindu weddings, and I loved looking at them as a youngster. There was a certain unexplainable closeness to the situation. So intuition leads me in this direction, but nothing is for sure.

On a more practical point, I actually don't care. Now is now. This is the lifetime of today, and I have the rare opportunity to be able to serve God through landscaping, being nice to devotees, dedication to Guru, and things like being on forums. It's an opportunity to reduce the karmas I have, and I'm grateful to be in the position. both knowledge wise, and in practical terms, to do this. What happened in the past is only illusion, and ultimately, attachment to be rid of.

So what do you lean to, as to who you were.

Aum Namasivaya

[Aanandinii]

Namaskar ji,

I've heard that saying, but I haven't read anything about it in the scriptures I've read so far - not that there are so many yet. I've run into many sayings like this, for instance a friend's family's tradition says there are only 7 births, and you are very lucky if one of them gets the fruits of karma to be born as Human so that you can try for Moksha. There are just so many traditions and beliefs, you really do need to stick with scripture unless you have been born to a family tradition and you wish to continue it. That said:

What I've heard is that all you have is a sense of saṃskāra, a vague sense, like for some reason you freak out in the presence of open seawater (maybe you died in a shipwreck or in a hurricane at sea), upon sight of a tornado (you either lost your family to one or you yourself died in one), but you don't know exactly why.

Yes, I've heard some say this and the idea makes some sense to me. Or some have memories which they were born with. Trust me, it's no help in figuring things out and it's not any better than the sensations you speak of.

It's always made sense to me, for example, that a chauvinist would be reborn as a woman, with a high likelihood of getting married to a chauvinist.

This has occurred to me in the past too. Or someone with a strong prejudice, that could end up being a part of your next birth. Say like being born in a country one had a deep dislike for...
But ultimately, yes, I completely agree with EMji. It's like chasing your own tail, you just get led in circles. That was then and too much time spent ruminating on it holds one back from progress today.

Off topic, as long as we're talking in hypotheticals... I also think jiva is gender neutral and so far have never seen any statement otherwise in my reading.

PS, Tacit in the OP is the assumption that souls are gender oriented and they continue to take male or female bodies per their orientation in their consecutive rebirths. Is the gender neutrality of the souls or their orientation as males/females defined anywhere in the scriptures?

Tacit in your pointing out of assumptions is the assumption that lovers tied over lifetimes have to be born in opposite genders. After all, lovers can be born in warring families, warring countries, different social groups and statuses, opposite sides of the world... why not? And what kind of karma might produce that kind of lesson, eh?

(not seriously looking for an answer or discussion, just meant lightly )

~Pranam

[surrenderindailylife]

Namaste deafAncient

Hari Om

There was a certain unexplainable closeness to the situation. So intuition leads me in this direction, but nothing is for sure.

On a more practical point, I actually don't care. Now is now. This is the lifetime of today, and I have the rare opportunity to be able to serve God through landscaping

What happened in the past is only illusion, and ultimately, attachment to be rid of.

I agree with EM-ji.


I have read that people whom you interact in your life, happen to come in your life due to their association in our past life - something of a karmic debt. This, to me gives helps in explaining why I experience great kindness at hands of some while being subjected to agony through some others ... in both cases, when I don't really 'deserve' anyone of them. In this part of India, this is attributed to "there is a lot of guna matching" (for example of out of 36 gunas, say 28 are matching), which translates to closeness in your thinking & thereby behavioral pattern. Whether these things happen due to past life association or due to 'gunas' (which again could be due to past life/karmic debt), I am not sure.

However, it is best that we focus our energies on the current moment (Eckhart Tolle calls it "NOW"), remember HIM in this moment & try our best to serve HIM as best as we can. I guess with our limited intellect we will never be able to unravel several of such mysteries - hence scriptures wisely extol us to "Surrender to HIM" ....since we can never be sure what (kindness Vs agony) is in store for us next moment.

Om Namah Shivay