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Thread: Hindu or none ... the new choice.

  1. #21
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    Re: Hindu or none ... the new choice.

    Vannakkam Anandini: Oh, it matters. What I meant was that it does not matter TO ME. I've lived long enough and have seen enough negativity in the forms of racism, casteism, etc., that I, through the grace of Guru, am relatively immune. Not totally, but compared to those early naive days, it's much better. You've read about affectionate detachment, I'm sure. My Guru responded to criticism with a cheery, "Did they spell my name right?"

    The last time we went to Kauai Aadheenam, I got sick, and only went twice I think. Stuff happens (shrugs).

    In India, Ganga always got in and got more attention than me. She just goes in. In a mystical sense, none of us are really, 'in the temple' anyway, as it's not a physical place, but a meeting place of the three worlds.

    It's just that there are many things we cannot do in life, as individuals, and it varies of course based on a ton of things.

    Aum Namasivaya
    Last edited by Eastern Mind; 16 July 2015 at 02:12 PM.

  2. #22
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    Re: Hindu or none ... the new choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aanandinii View Post
    Namaste Abirami ji,

    I am saddened to read this. I hope one day in this birth to see all the Jyotirlingams. Maybe that might still happen, but each time I read experiences like this I think it's more likely that I have seen the one I had to and that is all I will see. Does it matter? Perhaps not, but then yatra to such places is such a large part of Hindu belief and culture that it's hard to tear away the idea that yes, it does indeed matter. 'If it is meant to happen it will', certainly. But if one is able to get there, (sometimes a miracle in itself), and are turned away, even with papers such as yours or EM ji's, it diminishes things in a way. I don't mean the good diminishing of the ego of the individual in question, it's hard to put into words.

    If any person is lucky enough to be able to make the journey and especially if they correctly approach such a sacred place, sometimes over miles on bare feet etc., to then be turned away after all of that, for whatever reason, it feels to me as if it actually lessens the holiness of the location, as people are then forced to feel it is indeed not so important or they would have been allowed after all of that. I completely understand wanting to keep out tourists, but someone on pilgrimage and presenting themselves appropriately should be easy to pick out from the groups of people in shorts carrying cameras and cellphones. Particularly when one carries papers. And what of the non-believing tourists who happen to be Hindustani? It's not a new argument, I know.

    In another thread Ram ji mentions Acharyas who have gone abroad not being allowed into inner sanctums, as if they are now somehow corrupt. Again, I'm surprised and saddened. And yet some of these same places can be paid enough to look the other way.
    My deepest respect to you, EM ji, but I have to point out that the situation is not really the same for you. It will be easier for you simply because your form is male.

    You are right of course, perhaps it doesn't matter. But then I ask why all this emphasis on important yatras, holy places that must be visited, why glorify their benefits and the necessity to do it if it doesn't really matter. I've been to a couple of places here at home where I have had strong experiences too, one has an Acharya Pandit who I am now sad for because if he ever gets to go home, it seems he will be considered impure. But the ages and ages and ages of built up energy from countless aartis and pujas and arcanas and yagyas and vedic chants, centuries of monastic practice and bhakti focused in one place... This is not something I will find here at home. So there is indeed a loss, to all of us. Does it diminish my belief, my faith, my love of Bhagavan? No. It makes me sad for Humanity and diminishes my faith in those who are supposed to be wiser. It diminishes the importance and significance of such sites, because "In the end it doesn't really matter". It isn't a good thing to promote the feeling of "Why Bother" in any devotees, and it shouldn't happen. Just one more example of the darkness of Kaliyuga.

    I am sorry if I have offended any in saying any of this and hope that if so it is forgivable. This kind of subject always makes my heart hurt. Usually I can successfully let it go and avoid putting my metaphorical foot in my mouth. Not today, it seems.

    ~Pranam
    Namaste Aanandinii Ji,

    What I said in that post was regarding Sanyasins.Heads of ancient,traditional institutions will follow rules,if they themselves break all the rules,who will be in a position to guide others?I believe the rule was made to prevent them from coming in contact with dangerous barbarians who used to invade India and massacre Indians.I don't think common people or temple priests are expected to stay in India now.

    I think the regulatory attitude is because temples were violated in past centuries during the foreign occupation until Indian independence.Hindus were persecuted and temples were looted and defiled regularly,probably,a kind of mistrust developed from bad past experiences.I don't think temples will refuse entry provided the official papers show a person is Hindu.

    Coming to Jyotirlingams,since you have been to one already,I will tell about few others.Chidambaram is part of Pancha Bhuta Sthala Lingams and is the most important temple in Saiva Siddhanta tradition and equally venerable for all Shaivas irrespective of tradition.I have seen photos where western born Hindus are near Chitsabha(The Golden Sanctum Shrine).SriShailam Jyotirlingam is maintained by Virashaivas,whereever Vira Shaivas are there I don't think there will be any discrimination.Women are also allowed into the sanctum and can perform Abhisheka to Lord Sri Mallinatha(Mallikarjuna).Sri Kedarnath Jyotirlingam is also run by Virashaivas,I expect the same here.In South India states like Karnataka,Andhra,Telangana and pockets of Maharashtra and Tamil Nadu,where Vira Shaiva influence exists or existed, I assume there won't be any problem.I went to Sri Grishneshwar Jyotirlingam in Maharashtra and I saw that women are allowed to go inside the sanctum.Most Smartas are nice people and probably won't discriminate.In some places in Tamil Nadu there may be issues but if you can show papers as EM Ji did(in Madurai temple Saiva Siddhanta is followed),they will have to allow you.I have not been to other places,members who have been to these Kshetras may know.

    P.S.One should go to Puri(Orissa) at one's own risk,I read in newspapers number of times that priests severly bashed western Vaishnavas who tried to have darshan.
    He dances in the golden hall of Chidambaram, Let us worship His rosy anklet girt Feet.

  3. #23
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    Re: Hindu or none ... the new choice.

    Namaste EM ji,
    Quote Originally Posted by Eastern Mind View Post
    Vannakkam Anandini: Oh, it matters. What I meant was that it does not matter TO ME. I've lived long enough and have seen enough negativity in the forms of racism, casteism, etc., that I, through the grace of Guru, am relatively immune. Not totally, but compared to those early naive days, it's much better. You've read about affectionate detachment, I'm sure. My Guru responded to criticism with a cheery, "Did they spell my name right?"...

    ...It's just that there are many things we cannot do in life, as individuals, and it varies of course based on a ton of things.
    Gurudev ji was and is a great soul. Would that we could all be so enlightened.

    You are very kind to have replied with such understanding. I guess I am still just too attached to the material, prejudice of any kind can still really get under my skin in unbalanced moments. Directed at me, it's not so bad, I get what karmic fruits I have earned and accept them - hopefully gracefully more often than not. It's seeing it directed at others that bothers me, and when it comes from those who are supposed to be wiser or upholding a higher standard, it bothers me the most. Recent events in my own country have kind of heightened that I think. I have found myself wrestling with the problem of 'bystanderism' which seems to be everywhere. It has been creating some turmoil... I have trouble at times separating myself from what I perceive as unjust suffering in others, and lately I am conflicted about doing so.
    The last time we went to Kauai Aadheenam, I got sick, and only went twice I think. Stuff happens (shrugs).

    In India, Ganga always got in and got more attention than me. She just goes in. In a mystical sense, none of us are really, 'in the temple' anyway, as it's not a physical place, but a meeting place of the three worlds.
    It's true, what is meant to happen will and what isn't won't, and all will come in its own time. It's easier for me to accept for myself. But perhaps what I need to focus on more is the mystical side, and less on the physical. It's easy to lose sight of that. Thank you. And thanks as well for the note about your wife often being granted more access. In my experience in every country I have been in, men are in general granted more leeway and access to anything, so I believe that in this case I jumped to an unfair conclusion. My apologies.

    ~~~~

    Namaste Ram ji,
    Quote Originally Posted by Ram11 View Post
    What I said in that post was regarding Sanyasins.Heads of ancient,traditional institutions will follow rules,if they themselves break all the rules,who will be in a position to guide others?I believe the rule was made to prevent them from coming in contact with dangerous barbarians who used to invade India and massacre Indians.I don't think common people or temple priests are expected to stay in India now.
    My understanding is that Sanyasins wander specifically so they do not form attachments to any material thing, being or location. But attachment to a small area of one subcontinent is required?
    In seriousness, I understand what you are suggesting, but this is a debated topic and as my understanding of all the facets surrounding it is not great I do not think it is something I can respond to well. It does seem on further investigation that there are still some maaths that do insist on this, and that feels wrong to me. But then, who am I, I will simply do my best to avoid such traditions.

    I think the regulatory attitude is because temples were violated in past centuries during the foreign occupation until Indian independence.Hindus were persecuted and temples were looted and defiled regularly,probably,a kind of mistrust developed from bad past experiences.I don't think temples will refuse entry provided the official papers show a person is Hindu.
    Please do not misunderstand me, I understand where such rules come from. I am not suggesting that such limits are wrong either, in fact it's very probably still necessary. My point is that simply judging based on material, physical appearance has been shown time and again to be problematic and today it is no real measure of who is a true devotee and who is not, and there certainly seem to be better ways. No one can blame those who have been persecuted for so long for having misgivings, it is more than understandable. I only suggest that those who claim to be so wise perhaps should not be engaging in such prejudicial methods as looking with their eyes only.
    Coming to Jyotirlingams,since you have been to one already,I will tell about few others....
    Thank you for this. It does seem that many places are not consistent in allowing for those with papers, but I very much appreciate that it is only an inconsistancy in many cases. Hearing of the madirs is also helpful, like a salve, thank you. For the record, my own experience has been as you describe. Recently I have just had a very hard time hearing of others' pain.
    I will need to reflect a lot on this, I think.

    ~Pranam
    ~~~~~
    What has Learning profited a man, if it has not led him to worship the good feet of Him who is pure knowledge itself?
    They alone dispel the mind's distress, who take refuge at the feet of the incomparable one.
    ~~Tirukural 2, 7

    Anbe Sivamayam, Satyame Parasivam

  4. #24

    Re: Hindu or none ... the new choice.

    Namaste

    Ram11
    P.S.One should go to Puri(Orissa) at one's own risk
    Puri is an amazing place, not what it used to be because of the tourist industry, but still apart from the main temple it has many wonderful places to visit, its one of the Gaudia Vaishnavas strongholds and there are numerous pastimes of Sri Chaitanya MahaPrabhu and most the temples anyone can go inside and Jaganatha is equally present in temples such as Tota Gopinatha the deity where Sri Chaintanya MahaPrabhu entered when winding up His Lila.

    I have heard stories where devotees have been beaten because they have been disguised as Indians, but that was many years ago and always as usual blown out of proportion. I used to visit the head Pujaris home and take Jaganatha prasadam with an American Devotee, they like the devotees, some temples have rules, not all the pujaris like the rules, but there it is its never limited to one temple and the % of temples that do not allow non Indians is limited.

    Does a piece of paper make you a Hindu

    All boundaries are transcended in Bhagavad Gita, that's the main paper that's important to me. They denied me to take 1 nights rest when I was doing Char Dharm Yatra in Adi Shankara Ashram at Joshimath, and told me I belong in a guest house, its their problem, and they are fighting amongst themselves, so let them keep it, I ended up sleeping with the Sadhus at Vishnu Prayag they always make you feel welcome.

    These are just small % who belong with the small minded %, most of them seem to congregate on so called Hindu and Sanatana Dharma pages on facebook.

    I love Yatras especially PadaYatras and Parikramas and so far I have never been denied going in any temple, ones I know I avoid, why give attention to these types of people, as the majority of people in India are hospitable, kind and pious, but their the ones who have the true spirit but never hit the headlines, thats humility for you.

  5. #25
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    Re: Hindu or none ... the new choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aanandinii View Post

    Namaste Ram ji,
    My understanding is that Sanyasins wander specifically so they do not form attachments to any material thing, being or location. But attachment to a small area of one subcontinent is required?
    In seriousness, I understand what you are suggesting, but this is a debated topic and as my understanding of all the facets surrounding it is not great I do not think it is something I can respond to well. It does seem on further investigation that there are still some maaths that do insist on this, and that feels wrong to me. But then, who am I, I will simply do my best to avoid such traditions.


    Namaste Aanandinii Ji,

    Well,I can't say much but they are not attached to anything,they are doing what they think is correct i.e. simply following their tradition.Such rules weren't written yesterday or day before yesterday but some 2000 or 3000 years ago.India is where most Dharma practitioners live,it is the land that will always bear Yajnas and Dharma.Dharma is everywhere,in India we can practice easily.You have stop hair splitting about many things otherwise your mind will always be agitated,the wise Sages of the past said to look inside.

    Please do not misunderstand me, I understand where such rules come from. I am not suggesting that such limits are wrong either, in fact it's very probably still necessary. My point is that simply judging based on material, physical appearance has been shown time and again to be problematic and today it is no real measure of who is a true devotee and who is not, and there certainly seem to be better ways. No one can blame those who have been persecuted for so long for having misgivings, it is more than understandable. I only suggest that those who claim to be so wise perhaps should not be engaging in such prejudicial methods as looking with their eyes only.


    Since there is no real measure,external appearance based notions are probably followed.Again I repeat,you may rarely encounter negative things,most people are nice.Genuine devotees are always close to the Lord and the wise ones always recognize a true devotee no matter who (s)he is.

    He dances in the golden hall of Chidambaram, Let us worship His rosy anklet girt Feet.

  6. #26
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    Re: Hindu or none ... the new choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by markandeya 108 dasa View Post
    Namaste

    Ram11


    Puri is an amazing place, not what it used to be because of the tourist industry, but still apart from the main temple it has many wonderful places to visit, its one of the Gaudia Vaishnavas strongholds and there are numerous pastimes of Sri Chaitanya MahaPrabhu and most the temples anyone can go inside and Jaganatha is equally present in temples such as Tota Gopinatha the deity where Sri Chaintanya MahaPrabhu entered when winding up His Lila.

    Namaste Ji,

    There are said to be more than 1000 temples in the holy city of Kanchipuram but people go there to see Goddess Kanchi Sri Kamakshi Devi(the presiding deity) and Lord Ekambareshwara,visiting all other temples is not their priority.The goal of Hindus who go to Puri is to have darshan of Sri Jagannatha Swamy not to see something else.For us at least, Sri Jagannatha Swamy deity is present in the Puri temple.


    I have heard stories where devotees have been beaten because they have been disguised as Indians, but that was many years ago and always as usual blown out of proportion.
    Not many years ago,just a year or two back,I remember seeing photos of the wounded western devotees.My Vaishnava relatives who went there told us about the atrocities committed by some priests,they demand money for prasad and also beat devotees with sticks!

    Does a piece of paper make you a Hindu
    It seems that in modern India legally it does.
    I love Yatras especially PadaYatras and Parikramas and so far I have never been denied going in any temple, ones I know I avoid, why give attention to these types of people, as the majority of people in India are hospitable, kind and pious, but their the ones who have the true spirit but never hit the headlines, thats humility for you.
    Most people are good.
    He dances in the golden hall of Chidambaram, Let us worship His rosy anklet girt Feet.

  7. #27
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    Re: Hindu or none ... the new choice.

    Namaskar Ram ji
    Quote Originally Posted by Ram11 View Post
    Well,I can't say much but they are not attached to anything,they are doing what they think is correct i.e. simply following their tradition.Such rules weren't written yesterday or day before yesterday but some 2000 or 3000 years ago. India is where most Dharma practitioners live,it is the land that will always bear Yajnas and Dharma.
    I'm sorry, my first line was not serious, it was tongue-in-cheek and perhaps not in the best taste. However, being serious, I can say a few things. As far as I know the earliest known injunction regarding travel abroad is in Manu Smriti. The date of writing of that document is itself a matter of debate. Chapter 2 verses 17 through 24 define the region known as Brahmavarta, with the region known as Aryavarta within that being the only place Prachaara may be practiced and this is where all twice-born should live. Note this definition leaves out about half of India and all of Nepal. This leaves out a wide swath of people and traditions that are now considered great lineages.

    Later, travel by sea for any extended period of time was thought to cause one to lose one's caste, and was not allowed even for Grihasthas, and apparently by sometime in the last 1000 years there were different rules for different levels of Sanyasins and a Vidvat Sanyasin was not subject to any rules.
    My point is, Dharma Sastra traditions and rules change over time. My surprise was because I thought these were ancient traditions as there have been several great maath leaders that have traveled abroad since at least the 1950's, not counting Swami Vivekananda, who was earlier. The idea that this might still be a practice upheld regularly was a disappointing and saddening one.

    Dharma is everywhere,in India we can practice easily.
    No one has ever said that India is not the land of Karma Bhoomi and Punya Bhoomi. It is the one place that has managed to defend, uphold and practice Truth through all the ages, which is why India carries so many places and lineages of such power for illumination and transformation. I believe I noted this earlier. It is important to all of Humanity, that is the point.

    You have stop hair splitting about many things otherwise your mind will always be agitated,the wise Sages of the past said to look inside.
    Your pardon, but I am not splitting hairs. I have a problem with practices I perceive as prejudicial, be it in the West, in the East, classist, castsist, racist, sexist, political, economic, whatever. Prejudice is prejudice, if it causes harm to others it is injustice and that is what bothers me. I am polarized to it by my culture, which has recently had some large upheavals surrounding the subject. I believe I have been clear on this point, not splitting hairs at all.


    But I completely agree, there is clearly memory here that I must work through. My mind has most definitely been agitated of late, as meditation has brought this to the surface more powerfully. Particularly recently. My perceptions are clearly my own, colored by this memory, and not really indicative of actuality. If it's any help, I do believe I'm beginning to get to the center of it, and these conversations have helped, even though I think they may have wondered off topic, (bad habit) - so my thanks to you, EM ji and Markandeya ji.

    Since there is no real measure,external appearance based notions are probably followed.
    I disagree. There must be some kind of better measure, though what that is I am not certain. Put the same practice in another context: what are your thoughts on racial profiling to catch criminals and terrorists?

    Again I repeat,you may rarely encounter negative things,most people are nice. Genuine devotees are always close to the Lord and the wise ones always recognize a true devotee no matter who (s)he is.
    This. Exactly. I am not arguing with you. This is what I usually believe, I like to see the best in people and am usually an optimist. This has also largely been my experience. So, what is coloring my perception is not actuality but my own karma. I can see this, and I will work it through.

    ~Pranam
    Last edited by Aanandinii; 18 July 2015 at 12:34 AM. Reason: spelling
    ~~~~~
    What has Learning profited a man, if it has not led him to worship the good feet of Him who is pure knowledge itself?
    They alone dispel the mind's distress, who take refuge at the feet of the incomparable one.
    ~~Tirukural 2, 7

    Anbe Sivamayam, Satyame Parasivam

  8. #28

    Re: Hindu or none ... the new choice.

    Namaste Ram Ji,

    I am sure there are incidents and always will be, but the vast majority of western devotees understand that they can't get in, in the early days they tried more often.

    My experience and many others is that Puri is such a wonderful place and the majority of people treat us nicely, but it does seem that quite a few temples hassle people in one way or another for money and what not, not just in Puri. How many temples are run by people with Gansta mentality, where there is money involved there will be some type of corruption.

    Your right that Lord Jaganatha is the main temple for most Hindus to visit while there, it is said that all the Devattas take Dharshan everyday, I am not taking anything away from His importance in His temple, I would love to visit and take Dharshan, but Jaganatha Puri at least to Gaudiya Vaishnavas has many places or visit. And although He is in the temple, where is He really, He resides in the Hearts of His devotees. I have spent quite some time not only in Puri but also in Odisha, its where I took Diksha at Bhubaneswara and visited many homes all around Odisha and Bhagavan Jaganatha is all pervasive and spreads His mercy equally.

    I have never once been asked for any papers, and if I was I would just show them Bhagavad Gita I am sure its useful for some and has a purpose, but like threads round ones neck does it make one a Brahmin, so on that basis I wouldn't follow any modern laws., if they don't accept me , what to do, this realm, planet location, identity is such a small temporary affair, no use getting to worked up over labels.

    I understand the reasons why some temples may feel they should not let outsiders in, but that isn't the only problem, its within the mentality of ever existing caste system, in South India if western people will visit some Brahmins house they will not let them in the house, they maybe polite but after they leave the wife will wash the floor with water where you stood. Non of this has much to do with the real spirit of Sanatana Dharma as far as I have studied and that's what most important to sincere practitioners, I never get worked up over it anymore.

    To the original post and one thing that concerns me about Hinduism in general is about its future identity. I agree with Shiva fan and many of the posts that I read about Hindu way of life through external influence has been put under threat. No easy solution, but some of the chanting I am Hindu makes me think at some point Hinduism will be seen like the other religions, seems some type of fanaticism is creeping in, especially online, not on this forum though thank God. In England its different, Hindus have a good reputation and there is a lot of religious freedom, nobody here would need to hide their faith, in fact more and more people are taking interest, but what worries me is that interest maybe short lived because whats happening with Hinduism at the moment.

    I dont want to sound critical as its a complex situation, while its essential to for natural born Hindus to absorb and defend their own culture, some of the tactics concern me, and it feels like that they are creating a hostile space, even moderate Hindus are condemned and criticized, all books written in English on Hinduism are to be considered Adharmic, where will all this lead, it doesnt feel good, I hope a good solution will evolve.
    Last edited by markandeya 108 dasa; 18 July 2015 at 02:28 AM.

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    Re: Hindu or none ... the new choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aanandinii View Post
    Namaskar Ram ji
    I'm sorry, my first line was not serious, it was tongue-in-cheek and perhaps not in the best taste. However, being serious, I can say a few things. As far as I know the earliest known injunction regarding travel abroad is in Manu Smriti. The date of writing of that document is itself a matter of debate. Chapter 2 verses 17 through 24 define the region known as Brahmavarta, with the region known as Aryavarta within that being the only place Prachaara may be practiced and this is where all twice-born should live. Note this definition leaves out about half of India and all of Nepal. This leaves out a wide swath of people and traditions that are now considered great lineages.

    Later, travel by sea for any extended period of time was thought to cause one to lose one's caste, and was not allowed even for Grihasthas, and apparently by sometime in the last 1000 years there were different rules for different levels of Sanyasins and a Vidvat Sanyasin was not subject to any rules.
    My point is, Dharma Sastra traditions and rules change over time. My surprise was because I thought these were ancient traditions as there have been several great maath leaders that have traveled abroad since at least the 1950's, not counting Swami Vivekananda, who was earlier. The idea that this might still be a practice upheld regularly was a disappointing and saddening one.


    Namaste Ji,

    For traditional people historical dates don't matter.Yes,Dharma Sastra do change over time but now nobody is a position to write a new Sastra for our period but I understand your view.Not sure about the part that only a certain portion of India is meant for Prachaara,Sri Adi Shankaracharya established a monastery in the South of Vindyas,many famous philosophers like Sri Nilakanthacharya,Sri Appaya Dikshita,Sri Ramanuja,Sri Madhva,Sri Vallabha etc are from South India.

    Your pardon, but I am not splitting hairs. I have a problem with practices I perceive as prejudicial, be it in the West, in the East, classist, castsist, racist, sexist, political, economic, whatever. Prejudice is prejudice, if it causes harm to others it is injustice and that is what bothers me. I am polarized to it by my culture, which has recently had some large upheavals surrounding the subject. I believe I have been clear on this point, not splitting hairs at all.


    Well,there is prejudice and it should be removed.I feel the only Indian tradition that will meet your expectations is Vira Shaivam.It is a dynamic reform movement.
    I disagree. There must be some kind of better measure, though what that is I am not certain. Put the same practice in another context: what are your thoughts on racial profiling to catch criminals and terrorists?
    Even I don't know any better measure.
    I have heard little about racial profiling in the USA.In India,there is only one race(there may be genetic variation but common people say that all Indians are one race)and no group is generally stereotyped as being more criminal as far as I know.
    This. Exactly. I am not arguing with you. This is what I usually believe, I like to see the best in people and am usually an optimist. This has also largely been my experience. So, what is coloring my perception is not actuality but my own karma. I can see this, and I will work it through.

    ~Pranam
    You and I are from different backgrounds,so we see things differently.I think my views are also very subjective.I haven't faced the problems western born Hindus may have to deal with.I'm trying to see these issues from your perspective.I understand your disappointment and sadness.
    He dances in the golden hall of Chidambaram, Let us worship His rosy anklet girt Feet.

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    Re: Hindu or none ... the new choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by markandeya 108 dasa View Post
    Namaste Ram Ji,

    I am sure there are incidents and always will be, but the vast majority of western devotees understand that they can't get in, in the early days they tried more often.
    Namaste Ji,

    What is the exact reason,why are western Vaishnavas not allowed inside?Did Sri AC Bhaktivedanta Swami speak with them when he was alive?

    My experience and many others is that Puri is such a wonderful place and the majority of people treat us nicely, but it does seem that quite a few temples hassle people in one way or another for money and what not, not just in Puri. How many temples are run by people with Gansta mentality, where there is money involved there will be some type of corruption.
    Yes,corruption is a universal problem nowadays.Sometimes money corrupts good people too.

    To the original post and one thing that concerns me about Hinduism in general is about its future identity. I agree with Shiva fan and many of the posts that I read about Hindu way of life through external influence has been put under threat. No easy solution, but some of the chanting I am Hindu makes me think at some point Hinduism will be seen like the other religions, seems some type of fanaticism is creeping in, especially online, not on this forum though thank God. In England its different, Hindus have a good reputation and there is a lot of religious freedom, nobody here would need to hide their faith, in fact more and more people are taking interest, but what worries me is that interest maybe short lived because whats happening with Hinduism at the moment.

    I dont want to sound critical as its a complex situation, while its essential to for natural born Hindus to absorb and defend their own culture, some of the tactics concern me, and it feels like that they are creating a hostile space, even moderate Hindus are condemned and criticized, all books written in English on Hinduism are to be considered Adharmic, where will all this lead, it doesnt feel good, I hope a good solution will evolve.
    As you said,let us hope for good solutions.Thanks.
    He dances in the golden hall of Chidambaram, Let us worship His rosy anklet girt Feet.

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