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Thread: Puja Murtis

  1. #1
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    Question Puja Murtis

    Can I do a Kali puja with a Durga murti?

    I have Swami Bhajanananda's Simple Kali Puja for worship of Dakshina Kali. I ordered a Kali murti on eBay, but what I ordered isn't very suitable for puja because it's so lightweight and thin that touching it knocks it over. I have a nice Durga murti. Can I use this?

    Similarly, I have Bhajanananda's Simple Shiva Puja, but it refers to using a lingam stone. Could this same puja be used for a Nataraja murti?

    I tried searching with Google, and found one source that suggested using a Vishnu, Rama, or Krishna murti for Vishnu puja. But I don't know if that can be taken as a final word on the matter.

    Thanks!

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    Re: Puja Murtis

    Vannakkam:

    I personally think it depends on how you view it ... mystically or more symbolic. If the rites are considered mystically, both the murthi, and the mantras are important. So you would be summoning two slightly different vibrations at the same time ... one via the murthi, and the other via the mantras. So from that sense it wouldn't work.

    On the other hand if you just view everything as various aspects of Brahman anyway, it may not matter.

    Nataraja and Lingam have different names, and some of the chants are the same, while others aren't. That's a little different because it is essentially the same God. On my shrine I have a lingam immediately in front of Nataraja, so it's form and formless simultaneously.

    Nothing is the final word in Hinduism generally, other than what you decide to go with. In specific sampradayas or Guru paramparas, there is a final word usually.

    Sorry I couldn't be of more help, but you certainly don't want me as 'the final word'.

    Aum Namasivaya

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    Re: Puja Murtis

    Thanks for the comments.

    You've reminded me, the physical forms of murtis are as different as the sonic forms of mantras. Of course I understand that all is Shiva (or Brahma). Intellectually. But its not understood sufficiently that I have a single murti for all, or all murtis for one.

    I've ordered Durga Puja Beginners (Satyananda Saraswati), which I will use for my Durga murti. I might have to find and order a Kali murti.

    Similar to the original question, and perhaps this was hinted at in the response regarding Nataraja and the Shiva lingam: Should the murti be the same as the form given in the dhyana for a given puja vidhanam? E.g., if the dhyana is Kali with four arms, should a Kali murti with 10 arms not be used? (Or vice-versa?)
    Tasmācchabdārthacintāsu na sāvasthā na yā śivaḥ
    Whether in word, or object, or thought, there is no state which is not Shiva -- Spanda Karikas II.4a

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    Re: Puja Murtis

    Namaste EM,

    A very good advice in your post. The various chosen forms of God/Goddesses are with a lot of symbolism i.e. the form, the dress, the weapons, the mantras, the offerings, the way to perform pooja are all related. So, if you want to do Kaali Pooja, I won't advise you to do it through Durga Murti. Why not perform Durga Pooja instead ? Or you can perform Kaali Pooja without a Murti. Keeping Murti of one deity in for worship and invoking another deity leads to conflict.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eastern Mind View Post
    On the other hand if you just view everything as various aspects of Brahman anyway, it may not matter.
    Yes, but if that is the understanding there is no need to depend upon any particular Murti or God's name or a particular mantra. In that case, one should just meditate on form of Durga (because of availability of this Murti and if Murti is desired to be used) as all encompassing, Infinite Brahman who Herself Kaali, Shiva, Vishnu and all Devatas.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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    Re: Puja Murtis

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Similarly, I have Bhajanananda's Simple Shiva Puja, but it refers to using a lingam stone. Could this same puja be used for a Nataraja murti?

    Thanks!
    Namaste Ji,

    EM Ji and Devotee Ji have given very good replies.

    I would like to add some small points.
    According to the tradition I study(Saiva Siddhanta) Lord Shiva has three aspects:
    1.Arupam or formless aspect known as Para Siva or Parama Shiva.Sivam has no form as such i.e it is Nirakara,this 'formless' Para Siva is the ultimate substance and is the source of all forms.
    2.Aruparupam or the 'formless form' corresponds to the Shivalingam.The Shivalingam is not any specific form but represents the great cosmic pillar of fire know as Analastamba in the scriptures or as some say Jyotirlingam.
    3.Rupam or the various forms like Shiva and Parvati(or Ardhanarishvara)etc.,are many forms in which the Lord appeared before Rishis(sages) and devotees.

    Rupam and Shivalingam helps a devotee to concentrate the mind on a form as most people cannot grasp Para Siva easily.Gradually,one may progress from Rupa aspect to Aruparupa and finally to Arupa.Also,it is possible that one can contemplate on one or more of these three aspects based on individual capacity.The Tirumantiram of Rishi Tirumular says like a string that passes through every pearl in a pearl chain so too Para Siva is present in Rupam as well as in Aruparupam( Shivalingam).Lord Sri Nataraja's form can be classified as Rupam,it is a very powerful form and there is a great amount of significance behind this form.


    He dances in the golden hall of Chidambaram, Let us worship His rosy anklet girt Feet.

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    Re: Puja Murtis

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    Thanks for the comments.


    Similar to the original question, and perhaps this was hinted at in the response regarding Nataraja and the Shiva lingam: Should the murti be the same as the form given in the dhyana for a given puja vidhanam? E.g., if the dhyana is Kali with four arms, should a Kali murti with 10 arms not be used? (Or vice-versa?)
    Vannakkam: The dhyana absolutely has to be the same. Here's an example of the 'confusion' mixing can cause, based on my experience.

    At one time I was a pandaram priest. I would do the ashtottaram (108 names) of Ganesha, and of Siva. (from memory, not from reading) Some of the names come up in both lists. Occasionally, at the point where his happens, I'd cross over to the wrong list. So I'd be calling out Siva names in praise of Ganesha. Within a few names, the energy would swirl, (usually it would be in the form of distraction ... the murthis were close together, and 'something' would draw my attention to the other murthi) and I knew something was wrong, so I'd stop completely, and start over.

    None of this is 'bad' or 'evil', it's just larger more intrusive waves disrupting the energy for a bit. We all make mistakes, and stuff happens, but why create waves when good training will prevent it?

    Hope this helps some.

    Aum Namasivaya

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    Re: Puja Murtis

    I have another question: I have my murtis set up with Shiva in the middle, elevated, Ganesha on His right (my left), and Durga (was Kali, before) on His left (my right).
    When doing Ganesha puja, I've swapped Shiva and Ganesha. For Kali puja I swapped Shiva and Kali.
    Is this okay to do? Or should I leave each in place with my ishata devata (Shiva) always in the middle and elevated, and the other two left where they are? It just seems to me that my current focus should be prominent, but I'm not sure.
    I've only done maybe a half-dozen pujas at home so far, and I don't think I've done a proper prana pratishta, so maybe it isn't important as I'm still learning. But since I'm still learning, I'd like to learn to do it right.

    BTW - I'm still getting errors when I try to upload pictures.
    Tasmācchabdārthacintāsu na sāvasthā na yā śivaḥ
    Whether in word, or object, or thought, there is no state which is not Shiva -- Spanda Karikas II.4a

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    Re: Puja Murtis

    Vannakkam: Normally we don't move them around much at all. About the only time to do this is for cleaning, or for abhishekham. In that case usually a tray is used and the movement is steady and short.

    Few people would do a proper prana pratishta, but a local temple priest would if you asked him to. Not sure if it's still called a prana pratishta, perhaps just a home blessing. Prana pratishta, I think is more just for temples, although I could be wrong too.

    Aum Namasivaya

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    Re: Puja Murtis

    Namaste Richard,

    "PraaNa PratiShTha" is must before you should worship any Murti. The reason is that by PrANa pratiShTha" you invite deity to "come" and stay in the Murti. For that there are Mantras and procedure. If you are unable to do that, you can simply pray (in any language and manner you want) to the deity to "ënter" into the Murti and stay there for you to help you worship the deity. If you don't do that, your Murti is just a piece of wood or stone or metal or whatever unless you have reached a point where you visualise everything as God -- "Sarvakhalva idam Brahman (This all is Brahman)".

    Basically, it is your belief that matters in worshipping a deity but imho, one should follow the proper way unless there is a reason not to do that.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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    Re: Puja Murtis

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    I have another question: I have my murtis set up with Shiva in the middle, elevated, Ganesha on His right (my left), and Durga (was Kali, before) on His left (my right).
    When doing Ganesha puja, I've swapped Shiva and Ganesha. For Kali puja I swapped Shiva and Kali.
    Is this okay to do? Or should I leave each in place with my ishata devata (Shiva) always in the middle and elevated, and the other two left where they are? It just seems to me that my current focus should be prominent, but I'm not sure.
    I've only done maybe a half-dozen pujas at home so far, and I don't think I've done a proper prana pratishta, so maybe it isn't important as I'm still learning. But since I'm still learning, I'd like to learn to do it right.

    BTW - I'm still getting errors when I try to upload pictures.
    Namaste Richard Ji,

    Your Ishta Devata should be in the center and the other deities are placed around.There are specific positions for each deity in Srimat Saiva Agamas, which is meant for temple worship,I do not know if it is applicable for home worship.You should place them in a position that is comfortable for you with the main Deva in center.As EM Ji said we move the Murthis only during specific rituals or for cleaning.

    Ideally,Prana Pratishta is required as Devotee Ji told or the alternative as Devotee Ji said is you may request the Lord to come and receive your Puja.

    Rituals may seem somewhat complex initially but they become easy as one practices.As you are still learning,I suggest that you go slowly and learn little by little and don't try to do complex Pujas as you may feel overwhelmed or confused.Gradually,you can learn chants and incorporate them in your Puja.It is always good to learn from Priests or learned Gurus the correct Puja process.

    Simple Puja involves chanting prayers you like,offering flowers,some clean water and if possible fruits.You may worship the Lord as your caring father or consider yourself a sincere disciple or take the Lord as a good friend or even consider the Lord as a baby child and whatever you offer just do it with love.The Shaiva scriptures says that Bhakti(devotion) is the most important thing.The Lord is very compassionate and accepts whatever is done with Love and reciprocates.At the end of Puja,you can also sing Bhajans or songs on the deity you like.

    As you say,I think there is some technical problem with uploading images.You can upload images online to image hosting sites and then try to link them to your post.Keep visiting the forum whenever you require help,we have many members who will help you.
    He dances in the golden hall of Chidambaram, Let us worship His rosy anklet girt Feet.

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