Re: BRAHMA IN BHAGAVAT GITA
Namaste Japmala,
My interpretation of verse 2 to 5 of chapter 12 is right. You have to understand the question on verse 1 put by arjune which says who is superior ( ke yogabittama) between bhakta and worshiper of avyaktam aksharam. It is not difficult to understand that Out of two paths if one is superior naturally another is inferior. Here sri Krishna is comparing two paths and says that those who worship me ( mayy aveshya mano ye mam nitya yukta upasate) are superior ( te yukta tama me matah). Therefore the path of bhakti is the best according to sri Krishna. Now it is quite natural that the followers of another path which is difficult also can reach to him which he confirms in verse 3. Therefore the word
too here is justified.
If you start a discussion with the stance that Only your interpretation is correct then all doors of discussion get closed and it becomes a futile exercise to indulge in any discussion. You must be ready to see why the other party doesn't agree to what you say. Why do I say that your interpretation is wrong ? Let's see what the verses actually say.
a) In 1st verse Arjuna asks who is the best knower of Yoga i.e. path of Union with God, the worshiper of Saguna Brahman or the Nirguna Brahman. However, this question is invalid as Lord Krishna said earlier, " SAmkhya yogau prithak bAlAh pravadanti na panditAh". Both the paths lead to God if the seeker follows the paths correctly.
b) As the question is not valid and God doesn't want to say who is superior or inferior, He says, "MayyAveshya mano ye maam nityayukta upasate shradhyaya paryopetAste me yuktatamA matAh". Please read the verse correctly. Yes, that Saguna Brahman devotee is the best in yoga who has fixed his mind on God alone and who with full devotion worship nd all the time united with God (in his thoughts and actions). So, it doesn't say that a Saguna Brahman worshiper is better than a Nirguna Brahman worshiper. It says that a Saguna Brahman worshiper who has such and such qualities is the best yogi. Nothing more and nothing less.
Please take due care to notice that it is not the path which has been called the best in the verse but the bhakta who passes a predefined criteria. Now, the criteria is that the said best bhakta must always have fixed his mind and "älways" in union with Lord Krishna. Right ? However, if one is always in union with Krishna, how does the path matter at all ? The highest aim is to be in union with Lord Krishna and if it can be attained by Bhakti ... go for it. But the way bhakti is practised by most of the devotees ... I have serious doubts that even 1% of them would achieve that state.
c) After saying the above, He should have stopped if that (eulogizing the Bhakta) was the final and sufficient answer for what Arjuna was seeking. He didn't stop there. He immediately adds in verses 3 and 4 :
"Those who worship Nirguna Brahman, who have their senses in control and who maintain equanimity everywhere and who act for the benefit of all beings attain Me alone".
===> Let's pause here and take some note. What is the reward offered to the Nirguna Brahman Yogi ? Lord Krishna Himself and nothing less !! ... and you say that it is inferior path ?? ... and what is offered to a Saguna Brahman Yogi ? Lord Krishna says in verse 6,7 and 8 (if you insist that these verses are for the Saguna Brahman Yogis) ...
i) Those Saguna Bhaktas (note it that is not for all Saguna Brahman yogis and it doesn't apply to all who follow Bhakti Path. It is not for the path but only for the select bhaktas.) :
Verse 6 and 7 :
Who dedicate all their actions to God, worship by meditating on God (Me) with utmost devotion are awarded with liberation from this world of births and deaths.
Verse 8 :
Fix your mind to Me invest your intelligence into Me, and then you will reside in Me and there is no doubt on it.
===> So, what are the rewards offered to such Sagun Brahman Yogis ? Liberation and living in Lord Krishna. That is all ! ... and that also only to those Bhaktas who qualify as per the verses and not to all Saguna Bhaktas. But what does Nirguna Brahman worshiper gets ? "Lord Krishna alone" ! i.e. he gets the whole of Krishna. So, who gets a better reward ? The Nirguna Brahman worshiper !! Because he gets the whole of Krishna as He really is !
So, that is our goal. To get the whole of Krishna and nothing less. We don't want to feel separation from Him by just staying within Him (BTW, what is the big deal in residing within Krishna ? All beings anyway are always within Him alone !) because there is duality and that is not acceptable to us... we are already staying within Him ... we are never ever separated from Him. So, we don't want this reward. Let that reward be offered to Saguna Bhaktas. We want the whole of Krishna and that is what He graciously offers in verse 4.
So, if you still say that ours is an inferior path, we don't mind at all ! We want whole of Lord Krishna as He really is and we are not at all interested in ego-fights. Lord Krishna has said in unequivocal terms in Chapter 7 Verse - 17 He says that JnAni bhakta is the best and He is more dear to Him. Again in Chapter 7 verse - 18 He says, "JnAni tu Atma eva" ... i.e. JnAni is just like Him ! Just imagine ... Lord Krishna gives JnAni the same status as He Himself is. ... and that is endorsed by VedAnta ... On Self Realisation, individual self merges with the Self just like water mixes with water. There is no difference. What other proof you need to accept that your interpretation is completely wrong ?? So, a JnAni is offered a status equal to God by God Himself ! Why so ? Because the JnAni is not worried to maintain his separate identity which a bhakta wants to maintain. JnAni wants to dissolve himself into God ... so that only God remains and his own petty separate painful identity is lost into God.
Yes, the path is difficult and it is not for not-so-strong-minded people. It is not for those who are mediocre in spirituality, so it is not advisable for the common masses. They will fall if they tread this difficult path and that is why an easier path is advised for them. This is what the VedAnta says. After all, everyone cannot study Science and Technology ... so they are advised to study Arts / Commerce. You can excel by reading Arts/commerce too and sometimes may do much better than an average science student. It doesn't mean that studying Arts / commerce is better than studying Science and Technology. It depends upon what you are. A good student of Arts/Commerce is certainly better than a mediocre student of Science. So, a good bhakta may be better than a mediocre JnAn path yogi. But that doesn't mean that JnAn yoga as a path is inferior to Bhakti path.
=====================================
So, in a nutshell, what are the mistakes you are making when you are interpreting the verses ? Please note your mistakes as enumerated below :
a) God never ever says which path is superior or inferior. He talks about a Saguna Bhakta who meets a certain specified criteria and a Nirguna Bhakta with desired qualities.
b) He nowhere uses the word, "too". Please don't put your words into Lord Krishna's mouth.
c) Though Nirguna Bhakta's path is difficult his reward is the best one ... he attains Lord Krishna as He is. This interpretation matched Shruti and therefore is the only acceptable interpretation.
d) Nowhere Lord Krishna says that "ME" means Saguna Brahman alone. Please show me where He says so. You are completely confused about Saguna Brahman and Nirguna Brahman and you are again putting your words in Lord Krishna's mouth. Please stop it. Brahman with MAyA in action is Saguna Brahman and Brahman with MAyA at rest is Nirguna Brahman and Nirguna Brahman is the ultimate Reality. So, same Brahman is perceived as Saguna (when perceived under the veil of MAyA) which in reality is Nirguna.
e) Your interpretation of BG is in contradiction to what Shruti i.e. VedAnta says and therefore it is not acceptable. You are forgetting that Bhagwad Gita is Smriti and not Shruti. Bhagwad Gita cannot be interpreted in a manner which violates Shruti.
f) You are confused about Mithya. You say that you very well know what it means. If you would know that then the path of Advaita would not be difficult for you. But unfortunately, it doesn't appear so by your posts. MithyA is not an easy concept. If you are eager, I can try to explain MithyA to you.
g) It is clear that you don't know what Kapila's SAmkhya says and what is the difference between SAmkhya described in BG and SAmkhya of Kapila. We can discuss this later on. If you have time, please study the required scriptures. The question is not silly. You don't know the answer. In fact, this is what some teachers do, if they don't know the answer of a question. It is so easy to say, "Don't ask silly questions".
The reply has become too long and therefore, it would be futile to take up any other issue at this stage.
OM
Last edited by devotee; 02 September 2015 at 09:05 AM.
"Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"
Bookmarks