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Thread: Languages and Jyotish

  1. #1
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    Languages and Jyotish

    Namaste,

    I have a quick question as a layman, borne out of curiosity.

    I have heard people say that Rahu signifies foreign languages, foreign culture, and anything related to foreignness.

    And since this same Rahu is the one that causes ahamkara, can we then say that if we shun foreign languages including English as much as we can, and stick to our mother tongue that is the native Indian language, this is one way to avoid ahamkara in us?

    In other words, speaking in foreign languages including English will boost ego.

    Am I right?

    Thanks.
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

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    Re: Languages and Jyotish

    Quote Originally Posted by Viraja View Post
    Namaste,

    I have a quick question as a layman, borne out of curiosity.

    I have heard people say that Rahu signifies foreign languages, foreign culture, and anything related to foreignness.

    And since this same Rahu is the one that causes ahamkara, can we then say that if we shun foreign languages including English as much as we can, and stick to our mother tongue that is the native Indian language, this is one way to avoid ahamkara in us?

    In other words, speaking in foreign languages including English will boost ego.

    Am I right?

    Thanks.
    So, speaking in English (for an indian or Chinese or ... etc) or Sanskrit/hindi for a non-indian would be a linguistic remedy for boosting rahu, eh Viraja? :-)

    A silicon-jyotishi vehemently believes that all internet-users are rahu-grasta (grip of rahu)! Maybe we should plan a pilgrimage to a rahu shrine in India. No phones, tablets, laptops etc will be permitted since pilgrimages must entail an element of sacrifice and penance...?

    Rahu has been associated with foreign cultures, languages, food, and foreign religions, so perhaps rahu's grip is gaining a stronger grip on humanity globally? Makes such a pilgrimage even more important it seems now than ever before. Maybe too late already? :-(
    _________________
    MA GIVE US eyes to see, and minds to understand what the eyes see, and hearts beating in unison to keep the eyes and minds alive and ALL OF US engaged in serving YOU FOREVER.

    A birth-epoch is a seemingly-random TRANSIT-epoch that gains a personal-meaningfulness and becomes a beacon in the current lifetime of the incarnated soul-fragment; the union of a kona (angle) with a trikona (trine)...?

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    Re: Languages and Jyotish

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté


    I look at this slightly differently. I agree rāhu¹ is the kā́raka¹ for foreign travels and living in a foreign land.
    Yet the kā́raka of speech is budha ( mercury). Hence too mercury is the kā́raka of teaching ( via the lips), publishing ( speech via paper and words)
    printing, education ( and therefore intelligence), clerks and the like.

    Now if it is harsh speech, enter rāhu as the kā́raka once again… this must include mean-minded speech , backbiting, excessive negative gossip,
    fallacious arguments, immoral speech and falsehood. Above all we see rāhu as the poster-child for the thickness of the material world that
    burdens and incites more differentiation, false and the untrue.

    iti śivaṁ

    words

    kā́raka - instrumental in bringing about an action ; maker, doer, indicator thereof.

    rāhú – the seizer ; a graha – to take possession of , gain over , captivate; to hold/influence
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  4. #4

    Re: Languages and Jyotish

    Seshadri iyer had pointed out hat Ketu is also a significator of harsh speech, possibly fallacious arguments. Reasonable to interpret such if they are in a 2-8 axis in a chart? Or influencing The Lord of the second bhava /mercury?

    Had ad also read that jupiter is a karaka for Sanskrit, but I have never seen this anywhere else.

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    Re: Languages and Jyotish

    RR ji, thanks for a funny and thought provoking reply. :-)

    Yajvan ji, As Laalu ji says, I was thinking that Jupiter or Ketu might signify Indian languages and Rahu to signify all foreign languages. (Sorry I'm being partial to Indian languages). Now when I read that reply, it seems no such rule exists... So it seems only Mercury is the karaka for speech in any language. I stand clarified. Thanks.
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

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    Re: Languages and Jyotish

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    Enter ketu into the conversation ( which indeed is relevant) as laalu brings to the forefront and now one can make sense of some yoga-s.
    Look to ( and consider ) the yoga-s formed when ketu+budha are involved. Or when rāhu+budha form yoga-s.
    A fine yoga is conferred when ketu+budha are conjunct (samavāya¹) and when placed properly:
    • rāhu or ketu in a kendra (4,7 or 10th house, some count the 1st house too) and conjoined or aspected by the lord of a tríkoṇa (5 or 9 th house) ;
      and the opposite is true, that is:
    • rāhu or ketu in a tríkoṇa (5 or 9th house) and conjoined or aspected by the lord of a kendra (4,7 or 10th house).


    Yet , the other question posited in your 1st post had much to do about the limiting or muting ahaṃkāra (~ ego~). If done via language ( this muting/limiting)
    would be via the march backwards from speech (vāk) , of which 4 levels are
    considered:
    • parā-vāk - is the supreme (parā) word (vāk) and is considered pure I or ahaṃ
    • paśyantī is next - it is defined as seeing. It is when you see and that is all that occurs ; there is no thoughts , no verbal movement, just seeing.
    • then there is madhyamā - you are seeing, yet the mind is engaged and there is thoughts or internal speech.
    • last there is vaikharī¹ - when there is speech via lips; this could be loud, soft, murmur , whisper, etc.


    See the levels ? to be without this ahaṃkāra (~ ego~) is beyond just the lips (vaikharī¹).

    iti śivaṁ

    words
    • samavāya - coming or meeting together , contact , concourse , congress
    • vaikharī - speech in the fourth of its four stages from the first stirring of the air or breath , articulate utterance , that utterance of sounds or words

    Last edited by yajvan; 23 November 2015 at 12:56 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Languages and Jyotish

    Yajvan ji,

    A very knowledgeable reply of yours.

    However I did not understand any of this description.

    Yet , the other question posited in your 1st post had much to do about the limiting or muting ahaṃkāra (~ ego~). If done via language ( this muting/limiting)
    would be via the march backwards from speech (vāk) , of which 4 levels are
    considered:

    • parā-vāk - is the supreme (parā) word (vāk) and is considered pure I or ahaṃ
    • paśyantī is next - it is defined as seeing. It is when you see and that is all that occurs ; there is no thoughts , no verbal movement, just seeing.
    • then there is madhyamā - you are seeing, yet the mind is engaged and there is thoughts or internal speech.
    • last there is vaikharī¹ - when there is speech via lips; this could be loud, soft, murmur , whisper, etc.


    When time permits can you briefly explain the above?

    Thanks a million,

    Viraja
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

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    Re: Languages and Jyotish

    Quote Originally Posted by Viraja View Post
    RR ji, thanks for a funny and thought provoking reply. :-)

    Yajvan ji, As Laalu ji says, I was thinking that Jupiter or Ketu might signify Indian languages and Rahu to signify all foreign languages. (Sorry I'm being partial to Indian languages). Now when I read that reply, it seems no such rule exists... So it seems only Mercury is the karaka for speech in any language. I stand clarified. Thanks.
    Simply stated, speech is simply the actualization of thoughts and ideas. It is like the 'body' that makes the invisible spirit visible. In a tangible sense mercury or budh-graha is associated with the process and mechanics of expression of thoughts and idea. It (communication), they say has at least three components: verbal, paraverbal and metaverbal. Though seemingly more dominant and most objectively perceived, the verbal happens to be the least significant component underlying communication. Written-down thoughts tend to be more deliberate and often carefully prepared/formulated and can differ from the spoken word (casual as well as lectures-speeches although the latter are closer mechanistically to written language).

    Mercury seems to generally considered to be associated with expressions of thought but what do folks think about thought itself where it all begins -- the entire nine yards of communication? For simplicity's sake let us refrain from subtle forms of communication such as telepathy, channeling, hallucinatory communications and similar paranormal flavours! :-)
    _________________
    MA GIVE US eyes to see, and minds to understand what the eyes see, and hearts beating in unison to keep the eyes and minds alive and ALL OF US engaged in serving YOU FOREVER.

    A birth-epoch is a seemingly-random TRANSIT-epoch that gains a personal-meaningfulness and becomes a beacon in the current lifetime of the incarnated soul-fragment; the union of a kona (angle) with a trikona (trine)...?

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    Re: Languages and Jyotish

    Hari Om,


    Hello Viraja Ji - Hope you are doing good!


    I do not think that language plays an important role in Ahamkara.


    During Mahabharatha everyone were speaking Sanskrit language!( Duryodhana, Sakuni, Krishna & Pandavas). But still we are able to see individuals with different levels of ego in the epic. Same applies with Ramayana!


    I think Ego/Ahamkara should be analyzed based on the following factors.


    1. Sun - Natural Atmakaraka, Ego
    2. Moon - Mind
    3. Mars - Ego
    4. Lagna
    5. Lagnathipati
    6. 5th House
    7. 5th Lord


    Any afflications to the above set could trigger ego.


    I've read that classics saying Moon + Mars indicating ego as well Chandra Managala Yoga which is dhana yoga. In todays you should have some ego to be successful in Business or Corporate world...Thats how I interpret this.


    Om Tat Sat


    Krishna

  10. #10

    Post Re: Languages and Jyotish

    I think this is one of the loveliest ideas- categorizing speech in four ways as our forefathers did, and seeing it not just as verbal and consigning other forms as thoughts (like many do)

    theres es a reference to it in the Lalita sahasranama - Para pratyak chithi roopa, pashyanti para devata. Madhyama vaikhari roopa bhakta mañasa hansika.


    Quote Originally Posted by Viraja View Post
    Yajvan ji,

    A very knowledgeable reply of yours.

    However I did not understand any of this description.

    [/FONT][/LIST]

    When time permits can you briefly explain the above?

    Thanks a million,

    Viraja

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