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Thread: Which will give a better birth, and why?

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    Which will give a better birth, and why?

    Namaste,

    Consider the following 2 scenarios, which is most conducive to a better, more fulfilling next life?

    1. Lot of meritorious deeds - charity to the deserving, piety, lot of volunteer work and service to the disabled, and so forth. No special spiritual accomplishments.

    2. Lot of spiritual accomplishments - Especially mastery over the senses, certain amount of victory over the 6 negatives (kama, krodha, moha, lobha, madha, matsarya). But not a lot of meritorious deeds except for accomplishment on the spiritual arena.

    Which one will give a life, successful and fulfilling BOTH materialistically as well as spiritually?

    Thanks,

    Viraja
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

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    Re: Which will give a better birth, and why?

    Namaste Virajaji,
    Quote Originally Posted by Viraja View Post
    Which one will give a life, successful and fulfilling BOTH materialistically as well as spiritually?
    From my admittedly uneducated point of view, I wonder why one would try for both of these things in one life, as they seem to be diametrically opposed... that is, if what you mean by "fulfilling materialistically" is possession and/or accumulation of money and investments.

    There are those who find true wealth and value to be in very simple, basic things. They might tell you that material wealth is a distraction and your true wealth is all around you every day, if you wish to see it. To me, these are often among the wisest and kindest of spiritual people. So the truly spiritually rewarding life is, at least to them, full of all the wealth one could want in this world. I tend to agree with this line of thought.

    I also wonder... and I mean no offense in asking, if one does "meritorious deeds" as a means to an end, rather than out of true kindness and softness of heart and because such deeds are the right thing to do, are they truly meritorious? Do they carry as much weight as the deeds done without preconceptions, or will the judge of your actions - be it yourself or God - see them for what they are and reward accordingly: a good deed, sure, but done with gain in mind instead of actual concern for the welfare of others? Who do we think we're fooling making plans for our next lives, instead of living the ones we have and looking at the world around us now? Why does it matter who we might be then, will we somehow remember and know?

    What matters is who we are now and how we act now, not the outcome, or fruits. Not even fruits in potential future lives.

    ~Pranam
    ~~~~~
    What has Learning profited a man, if it has not led him to worship the good feet of Him who is pure knowledge itself?
    They alone dispel the mind's distress, who take refuge at the feet of the incomparable one.
    ~~Tirukural 2, 7

    Anbe Sivamayam, Satyame Parasivam

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    Re: Which will give a better birth, and why?

    Dear friend ,
    Bot are not possible exactly at the same time except in very rare cases like king JANAKA. If material prosperity along with peace and happiness with a judicious mix of virtues is required , the first option ensures that . But the second one gives equanimity sthithapragnathwam , a life of detachment which make all the boons of first option immaterial.A person who attains that state never even thinks of those things .

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    Re: Which will give a better birth, and why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Viraja View Post
    Namaste,

    Consider the following 2 scenarios, which is most conducive to a better, more fulfilling next life?

    Which one will give a life, successful and fulfilling BOTH materialistically as well as spiritually?
    Thanks,

    Viraja
    Namastey Viraja,

    Why you want to compare the 2 scenarios, Life is not fulfilled by only these 2 things, there are so many other things that can get you happiness.

    Lot of meritorious deeds - will obviously bring happiness in others life and smile on their face but the thing is If you love charity and Donation this will surely benefit you. If you love doing Social work there are means that will help you so such things. God is present in our heart and in everybody that's why God is said to be omnipresent.
    When you do good to others God helps them.

    Secondly,
    Lot of spiritual accomplishments - Spiritual accomplishments whereas is some different case. Yajvanji If you have ever tried spiritual meditation or Chakra Sadhana, you will realize the importance of having a spiritual side along with having a manipulated and statistical thinking.

    Having only these both will not make you complete or successful. Along with spirituality and
    meritorious deeds other factors that leads to a successful life is your family, your own will power and the way you modify yourself as per individual.

    ~Hari Om

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    Re: Which will give a better birth, and why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aanandinii View Post
    Namaste Virajaji,
    From my admittedly uneducated point of view, I wonder why one would try for both of these things in one life, as they seem to be diametrically opposed... that is, if what you mean by "fulfilling materialistically" is possession and/or accumulation of money and investments.

    There are those who find true wealth and value to be in very simple, basic things. They might tell you that material wealth is a distraction and your true wealth is all around you every day, if you wish to see it. To me, these are often among the wisest and kindest of spiritual people. So the truly spiritually rewarding life is, at least to them, full of all the wealth one could want in this world. I tend to agree with this line of thought.

    I also wonder... and I mean no offense in asking, if one does "meritorious deeds" as a means to an end, rather than out of true kindness and softness of heart and because such deeds are the right thing to do, are they truly meritorious? Do they carry as much weight as the deeds done without preconceptions, or will the judge of your actions - be it yourself or God - see them for what they are and reward accordingly: a good deed, sure, but done with gain in mind instead of actual concern for the welfare of others? Who do we think we're fooling making plans for our next lives, instead of living the ones we have and looking at the world around us now? Why does it matter who we might be then, will we somehow remember and know?

    What matters is who we are now and how we act now, not the outcome, or fruits. Not even fruits in potential future lives.

    ~Pranam
    Namaste Aanandinii ji,

    I have to say, I'm very curious to dwelve into the relative merits and demerits of these 2 approaches to life, and as such the question in the OP is not into judging the motives of people who engage accordingly.

    I, for one, believe in these principles of life, if it could add any value to the discussion:

    1. For all practical purposes, for successful life on earth, material success is very important. Not just feelings of fame and glory await upon material success, but also feelings of self-worth, esteem, respect and all things related to self are dependent on it.

    2. All human beings act with a certain degree of selfishness about them, regardless of what they do - be it out and out spiritual practices or out and out service to humanity - there is a buried self-interest somewhere except for a very rare few.

    3. Material success as in stocks and investments as you quoted, need not necessarily hinder with one's spiritual accomplishments. Both can be attained together.
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

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    Re: Which will give a better birth, and why?

    Will get to Saswathy ji and Suhita ji little later.
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

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    Re: Which will give a better birth, and why?

    Quote Originally Posted by bhaswathy View Post
    Dear friend ,
    Bot are not possible exactly at the same time except in very rare cases like king JANAKA. If material prosperity along with peace and happiness with a judicious mix of virtues is required , the first option ensures that . But the second one gives equanimity sthithapragnathwam , a life of detachment which make all the boons of first option immaterial.A person who attains that state never even thinks of those things .
    Saswathy ji

    What I am trying to arrive at is something way more dilute than being a sthithapragna... let us say, an ordinary mortal as me strives for an entire life with spiritual practices, say for an hour each day.... at the end of my life, I would be 'somewhere' but not necessarily a sthithapragna, correct? So where would I stand, when coming to my next birth? Would it be one of material success along with spiritual virtues (humility, kindness, patience, etc)?

    Coming to spirituality and material success going along, Janaka is a very good example. So also Sri Rama - he had all 16 virtues of human nature combined with being a successful king for 1000 yrs! Some other examples that come to my mind are Sri Vaishnava acharyas Sri Koorathaazhwan and the alwar Thirumangai Mannan. Both were greatly rich but given to charity, philanthropy, and service to god. In Sri Koorathazhwan case, he went to the extent of giving up his eyes for the sake of Swami Ramanuja! So we see riches, a kingly life and birth into riches can co-exist with spirituality. This is what I am most curious to know. I want to know which way would yield such results, but this question in OP, is just to stimulate others' thought processes, and dig out examples such as these for sake of discussion and knowledge thirst.
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

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    Re: Which will give a better birth, and why?

    Quote Originally Posted by Suhita View Post
    Namastey Viraja,

    Why you want to compare the 2 scenarios, Life is not fulfilled by only these 2 things, there are so many other things that can get you happiness.

    Lot of meritorious deeds - will obviously bring happiness in others life and smile on their face but the thing is If you love charity and Donation this will surely benefit you. If you love doing Social work there are means that will help you so such things. God is present in our heart and in everybody that's why God is said to be omnipresent.
    When you do good to others God helps them.

    Secondly,
    Lot of spiritual accomplishments - Spiritual accomplishments whereas is some different case. Yajvanji If you have ever tried spiritual meditation or Chakra Sadhana, you will realize the importance of having a spiritual side along with having a manipulated and statistical thinking.

    Having only these both will not make you complete or successful. Along with spirituality and
    meritorious deeds other factors that leads to a successful life is your family, your own will power and the way you modify yourself as per individual.

    ~Hari Om
    Thank you for your reply, Suhita ji. I may have to think deeper about the points you put forth...
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

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    Re: Which will give a better birth, and why?

    People who follow spiritual path , do meritorious deeds and at the same time enjoy material prosperity ,though not utilise the riches for their selfish ends ,could take birth in their next birth, either in a very rich family where the sadhana could go on without any obstacles or mundane worries or in a yogic family . Thus where the sadhana comes to a photofinish stage and the person dies , the conclusion is ,that this birth to him, is last but one birth.That's what our learned say .People who do not have any spiritual yearnings would invariably go astray wallowing in luxuries thinking that they are the chosen followers of God , that they are lucky , that they are great meritorious people.

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    Re: Which will give a better birth, and why?

    Vannakkam:

    Firstly, I have no authority to speak on such matters at all. Still, a few thoughts come to mind.

    I have no idea what you mean by spiritual 'accomplishments'. If the focus is on accomplishing something, it seems to me it's ego boosting all around. "Oh, I accomplished this, then that, then this." This path we are on, in my view, is not like some marketplace where we get this, and then get that. But rather it is going about dharma without thought of results. So I don't understand what is meant by accomplishment in the spiritual realm.

    Point one I do get. But if that's not dharma. I have no idea what is. True, it may only be part of it.

    As for a rebirth, whom is to say it is because of the results of this single lifetime? My understanding is that a birth is the result of karmas accumulated and dharma performed over several lifetimes.

    But then what is the idea of a wondrous birth? Will a birth of wealth lead a soul further to moksha, or will a birth full of suffering? Whom is it say? If moksha is the goal, then a meritorious birth may be one where the mere opportunity to perform dharma or renounce the world to seek moksha full time is the superior re-incarnation.

    Aum Namasivaya

    Aum Namasivaya

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