To live a 'perfect life', satisfy the soul and how to do that?

[Viraja]

Namaste friends,

Based on my life experiences so far, I was inclined to think as follows and summarize my findings on what would give us, ME, a soul-level satisfaction from living life.

Kindly comment to let me know where I may have flawed, and also, if you agree with what I have written.

"Money means a lot to a lot of people. And yes, when misfortunes like diseases visits us, money becomes most important asset to have. But is it truly worth the chase for money all the time? Often times in the world, we see people chasing beauty, wealth and power that always have an element of illusion about them - you feel jealous of a 'wealthier' man. There is always someone 'more beautiful' than you. There is always someone who is 'bossing over' you or even if you are the President of USA, your term is limited and your reign ends.

When a man was asked what are the true joys in life he would feel lucky to have, he replied, "3 tasty meals a day, sound sleep every night and a life without disease".
I have often reflected on what would bring true joy besides the above factors - I considered parameters such as being surrounded by true friends and relatives, being free of disease, etc. as some parameters that have the elusive element of 'happiness' associated with them.

But I decide on the above factors alone to be the givers of 'happiness'? NO. They add peace to life, yes. But happiness - not really. They are the basic needs for a successful life, however they alone aren't sufficient to bring 'happiness'.

Then as I thought further along, I started reflecting on my own life experiences - my childhood, my education, my friends, my job(s), my social standing, everything. So on that basis, I concluded that the most important thing for happiness in life is this - 'Aathma Tripthi' (satisfaction for the soul).

Other factors such as money, beauty, power, etc, bring 'happiness' to the mind. Whereas, these things DO NOT necessarily bring happiness to the 'soul'.

Then I further questioned myself 'what would bring happiness to the soul'?

It appeared to me that only a few factors bring the said happiness to the soul:

* A strong and beautiful personality - In Tamil we say, "we all know our own palm". This means, we all know our own self which remains a secret to ourselves. But then, can anyone feel a soulful joy for who he/she is, if the said person has a nasty personality, although known only to the self? Never. The strong personality never has excess anger, excess egotism (pride) or excess lust. Although vices are of many different nature, the main negatives of the humans are anger, egotism and lust. Where there is a mind free of the pangs of these excesses, the soul becomes burden-free and rejoices in itself.

* Ability for always engaging in fruitful action - It may be any kind of labor - be it physical (manual) labor or mental labor - labor that fetches money or labor that only helps others voluntarily - any kind of labor - but real thirst for constant and everyday labor is the true soul's thirst for feeling 'purposeful' in life. By this, I mean to address all those who are unable to work out of disabilities, out of laziness (tamas) or any other constraint. And I am convinced, if they have money, power, riches, they won't have the true joy of the soul. The soul just rejoices in true and real labor. You trust me, and ask anyone, even the person who did the most menial job, nevertheless occupied his life meaningfully throughout his life, if he is satisfied with 'who he had been', the answer would most likely be 'yes'. Whereas such a yes is doubtful, even for the richest but laziest man on earth, who did nothing whatsoever fruitfully in his life. Even in jyotish, the 10th house in a natal chart, which is the house for 'karmas' / 'deeds', is considered the most superior placement.

If you notice truly, just having the other 2 factors, one can easily win ALL OTHER FACTORS for successful life! By having a good personality, he will easily win friends, engage in good deeds, and in general be successful in his transactions and also be able to avoid pitfalls out of a balanced mind.

And by adherence to hard work, he can most likely than not succeed professionally, educationally, make money, etc.

Besides the above 2 factors, there are scores of other factors - like charity, forgiveness, etc, that are good for the soul. But, if someone would ask me 'What I want for the next life?', even if god appears before me and asks me, my answer to him would be, "Oh god! Please give me a strong (good) personality and ability to engage always in productive work, as I would like my soul to rejoice".

[Believer]

Namaste Viraja,

You have raised too many points and I will attempt to respond to some.

When a man was asked what are the true joys in life he would feel lucky to have, he replied, "3 tasty meals a day, sound sleep every night and a life without disease".

The implicit things in the above answer,
3 tasty meals a day - after paying your home mortgage your car payments and your sundry other bills; after taking care of your children's needs and meeting your social financial obligations towards your family members, you are left with enough money to buy fresh ingredients and have the time to cook 'tasty meals' - that indicates that you have enough wealth and spare time for yourself.

sound sleep every night - this does not happen by itself. your mind is calm, you don't have any major problems in life, your family members, friends and coworkers are nice towards you, you have paid your bills so that no one will come in the middle of the night to repossess your car or drive you out of your house or throw your child out of the private school that he/she attends; you are sufficiently spiritual minded to trust any and all shortcomings in your life to God - that is what induces a sound sleep. Sound sleep is not a stand alone feature, but is induced by the life you are living.

disease free life - without that you don't have a peaceful moment, either when you are awake or when you are sleeping.

So, we must mediate on the answer of the wise man and not just gloss over and move on to other things. What makes the three meals, sound sleep and disease free life possible is what life is made of. You get all three benefits only when other things in life are met.

if god appears before me and asks me, my answer to him would be, "Oh god! Please give me a strong (good) personality and ability to engage always in productive work, as I would like my soul to rejoice".

This goes directly against our teachings. NO ONE interferes with the laws of karma, not even God. So, our next life will depend ONLY on our karma in this life and in our past lives. It will not change by pleading with God.

I notice a strong pre-occupation with the 'next life' lately. Don't miss out on the good things you can do in this life, don't miss out on enjoying the joyful moments of this life, don't live your life solely for the future lives by indulging in thinking about the unknown. When we throw out the present, we have neither the present nor the future. Instead of too much pre-occupation with planning for the next life, do something in this life; like getting out to volunteer or taking walks in natural settings or learning a new language or thinking about how could one be more useful to family and friends. Dreaming about God coming to ask what kind of next life you want is dreaming too much. Live the present!

Pranam.

[Viraja]

The implicit things in the above answer,
3 tasty meals a day - after paying your home mortgage your car payments and your sundry other bills; after taking care of your children's needs and meeting your social financial obligations towards your family members, you are left with enough money to buy fresh ingredients and have the time to cook 'tasty meals' - that indicates that you have enough wealth and spare time for yourself.

sound sleep every night - this does not happen by itself. your mind is calm, you don't have any major problems in life, your family members, friends and coworkers are nice towards you, you have paid your bills so that no one will come in the middle of the night to repossess your car or drive you out of your house or throw your child out of the private school that he/she attends; you are sufficiently spiritual minded to trust any and all shortcomings in your life to God - that is what induces a sound sleep. Sound sleep is not a stand alone feature, but is induced by the life you are living.

disease free life - without that you don't have a peaceful moment, either when you are awake or when you are sleeping.

:0) I did not say the wise man's reply isn't correct. I only said, from my point of view, they point to the source of 'peace' in life, not necessarily 'happiness' in life.

This goes directly against our teachings. NO ONE interferes with the laws of karma, not even God. So, our next life will depend ONLY on our karma in this life and in our past lives. It will not change by pleading with God.

No! Nowhere I am asking anyone to mess with any "karma". My write-up is all about what measures one can take to live a practically useful and sattwic life, which will bring true happiness to the soul.

I notice a strong pre-occupation with the 'next life' lately. Don't miss out on the good things you can do in this life, don't miss out on enjoying the joyful moments of this life, don't live your life solely for the future lives by indulging in thinking about the unknown. When we throw out the present, we have neither the present nor the future. Instead of too much pre-occupation with planning for the next life, do something in this life; like getting out to volunteer or taking walks in natural settings or learning a new language or thinking about how could one be more useful to family and friends. Dreaming about God coming to ask what kind of next life you want is dreaming too much. Live the present!

I bet you did not devote ample time to read this paragraph in my write-up! I'm sorry to say, your answer kinda sounds hostile and also a "brush-up" of factors that I would love to address. Not sure why I feel this way, must be your tone and the points you chose to address! For example, you write in your reply, that I'm talking about after life "lately". I presume you are talking about my "other posts" from recent past on this board. For me who is seeking genuine review of my thoughts, you chose to "judge" me based on what I wrote in other circumstances! I find this no way answering my purpose.

For every argument, something against or sarcastic can be said, or even something can be said to 'trivialize' the said argument! That kinda motive defeats the purpose of a spiritual board as this.

"* Ability for always engaging in fruitful action - It may be any kind of labor - be it physical (manual) labor or mental labor - labor that fetches money or labor that only helps others voluntarily - any kind of labor - but real thirst for constant and everyday labor is the true soul's thirst for feeling 'purposeful' in life. By this, I mean to address all those who are unable to work out of disabilities, out of laziness (tamas) or any other constraint. And I am convinced, if they have money, power, riches, they won't have the true joy of the soul. The soul just rejoices in true and real labor. You trust me, and ask anyone, even the person who did the most menial job, nevertheless occupied his life meaningfully throughout his life, if he is satisfied with 'who he had been', the answer would most likely be 'yes'. Whereas such a yes is doubtful, even for the richest but laziest man on earth, who did nothing whatsoever fruitfully in his life. Even in jyotish, the 10th house in a natal chart, which is the house for 'karmas' / 'deeds', is considered the most superior placement."

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté

But, if someone would ask me 'What I want for the next life?', even if god appears before me and asks me, my answer to him would be, "Oh god! Please give me a strong (good) personality and ability to engage always in productive work, as I would like my soul to rejoice".

I myself ( and only me speaking) would look at this slightly differently. I would take my lead & refuge from arjuna's ( chapter 2 of the bhāgavad gītā ) request to the Lord,
'tell me what is best for me'.





iti śivaṁ

[Viraja]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté




I myself ( and only me speaking) would look at this slightly differently. I would take my lead & refuge from arjuna's ( chapter 2 of the bhāgavad gītā ) request to the Lord,
'tell me what is best for me'.





iti śivaṁ

Thank you! I'm actually curious if Sri Krishna would actually have something different in mind other than what I wrote! The reason being that, I did not write this 'as a time pass' or as something that occured to me 'all of a sudden'. Over my lifetime of experiences, often painful, in various fronts, including personality and its defects, problems at workplaces and my pitfalls, etc. these thoughts have been churning, rather 'cooking up' in my mind and I chose to eventually give shape to them.

[Believer]

Viraja,

My apologies Viraja, did not mean to cause any distress or be negative about the things you wrote. To me, being peaceful is being happy. I guess you differentiate between the two. But then, "My write-up is all about what measures one can take to live a practically useful and sattwic life, which will bring true happiness to the soul." you seem to be saying what I believe in - you live a satwic life, you become calm and peaceful and that brings happiness.

I am sorry that my comments seem hostile to you. I will refrain from your posts so as not to cause you any anguish.

Pranam.

[devotee]

Namaste Viraja,

Then as I thought further along, I started reflecting on my own life experiences - my childhood, my education, my friends, my job(s), my social standing, everything. So on that basis, I concluded that the most important thing for happiness in life is this - 'Aathma Tripthi' (satisfaction for the soul).

Exactly !

Other factors such as money, beauty, power, etc, bring 'happiness' to the mind. Whereas, these things DO NOT necessarily bring happiness to the 'soul'.

Now, this is a tricky question. What do we mean here by the term "happiness of soul" ? If by this term you mean inner happiness which cannot be disturbed by worldly changes then I can offer my views. However, that happiness is also experienced by mind alone. MASLOW's hierarchy of human's needs says that the needs which motivates man to do or not do anything are :

1. Basic Needs (Physiological needs e.g. Food, water, sex, sleep stc)
2. Security Needs (Security of Body, resources, family etc.)
3. Love, Belongingness (Friendship, family, Sexual intimacy)
4. Esteem (Self esteem, achievement, respect and recognition by others)
5. Self-Actualisation (Morality, Creativity, Proble Solving, Lack of prejudice etc.)

A person slowly graduates from needs of lower levels to higher levels. Maslow believed that for ascending to higher levels of satisfaction, it is necessary that lower levels of needs are fulfilled. However, I don't subscribe to his this view. Man can mentally grow to higher levels without even having the need of satisfying the lower level needs. In my opinion, the lower is one's spiritual level, more one is attached to his lower needs e.g. A person of the lowest level will find very high level of attachment to physiological needs. As the person progresses higher up the ladder of spirituality, he find less and less attachment to lower needs.

I also believe that there is another level which Maslow has missed in his deliberations and that is Eternal Happiness by getting freedom from all needs.

* A strong and beautiful personality - In Tamil we say, "we all know our own palm". This means, we all know our own self which remains a secret to ourselves. But then, can anyone feel a soulful joy for who he/she is, if the said person has a nasty personality, although known only to the self? Never. The strong personality never has excess anger, excess egotism (pride) or excess lust. Although vices are of many different nature, the main negatives of the humans are anger, egotism and lust. Where there is a mind free of the pangs of these excesses, the soul becomes burden-free and rejoices in itself.

Yes. However, such a personality comes naturally to those who are able to grow spiritually to a certain desired level. Why to strive for such a personality ? ... let it grow naturally, spiritually.

* Ability for always engaging in fruitful action - It may be any kind of labor - be it physical (manual) labor or mental labor - labor that fetches money or labor that only helps others voluntarily - any kind of labor - but real thirst for constant and everyday labor is the true soul's thirst for feeling 'purposeful' in life. By this, I mean to address all those who are unable to work out of disabilities, out of laziness (tamas) or any other constraint. And I am convinced, if they have money, power, riches, they won't have the true joy of the soul. The soul just rejoices in true and real labor. You trust me, and ask anyone, even the person who did the most menial job, nevertheless occupied his life meaningfully throughout his life, if he is satisfied with 'who he had been', the answer would most likely be 'yes'. Whereas such a yes is doubtful, even for the richest but laziest man on earth, who did nothing whatsoever fruitfully in his life. Even in jyotish, the 10th house in a natal chart, which is the house for 'karmas' / 'deeds', is considered the most superior placement.

I can't say I agree with you fully on this issue. Doing and not-doing are all mental concepts. What one sees as doing may be actually not-doing and vice-versa.

OM

[Viraja]

Good, informative reply, thanks Devotee ji.

Man can mentally grow to higher levels without even having the need of satisfying the lower level needs. In my opinion, the lower is one's spiritual level, more one is attached to his lower needs e.g. A person of the lowest level will find very high level of attachment to physiological needs. As the person progresses higher up the ladder of spirituality, he find less and less attachment to lower needs.

True... made me reflect on it.

I can't say I agree with you fully on this issue. Doing and not-doing are all mental concepts. What one sees as doing may be actually not-doing and vice-versa.

This line is brilliant! It made me think deeply... Let us take for example, the rich but disabled man who does nothing for his karma and relaxes all day, every day. In my earlier standpoint, I claimed that he will not get any 'aathma tripthi' - that his soul may not rejoice. Now I am rethinking my deduction. It seems that if he also simultaneously happens to be a vedantin, he has another avenue of 'work' and his soul may actually rejoice from this kind of spiritual labor!

So also a bathroom cleaner... he may be productively working his hours away, but he may regret his job for not making enough money and for not fetching social recognition and being too hard labor every single day. So his soul may not be rejoicing after all!

So now while I am still convinced about the importance of labor for the satisfaction of the soul, I am rethinking the definition for this term 'labor' itself.

Good thoughts! Thanks.

[markandeya 108 dasa]

Namaste Viraja Ji,


Material conditioned life is complex and different for each person, what some may think as making them happy maybe bondage for another and so on. When it comes to micro managing certain things only introspect into ones own life and being works, our consciousness now is in a state of privacy, and only one who has a certain type of omniscience can know the complex interactions of cause and effect, when however one gains insight into ones own being he see's that he is not so different to any other being, so the field of cause and effect will be under the same rules for each Jiva.

Sri Krsna supports the cultivation of Sattva in Gita, He also says how that Sattva is another form of conditioning 14.6, so at some point it should be used without attachment.

All problems are Mind based, so the solution should also be Mind based at least in the beginning, or learning to control the Mind through the Mind, to subdue or make steady, this would first come with the cultivation of equanimity, through Sattvic Dharmic living equanimity then becomes the foundation of Brahman realization because gradually the feelings of happiness and distress will just be conditions that arise and pass in the mind, one needs to see the cause and conditions of how they arise and cease. So for me the cultivation of knowing good causes to arise but keeping a mind of equanimity in both states of happiness and distress gives one a steady power, which should if cultivated correctly give one a sense of wisdom.


Equanimity is evenness of mind or temper. It is balance of mind in pleasure and pain, in success and failure, in honour and dishonour, in censure and praise. It is keeping a calm mind under all conditions. One who has equanimity has poise at all times, however trying it may be. He bears everything calmly~Swami Sivananda

[Viraja]

Very nice thoughts, Markandeya ji. Thanks.