Confused on Shiva, Shaiva, Siva

[Liang Ch'an]

Are these all just different transliterations or spellings of the same Hindi/Sanskrit name?
Siva is described as all compassionate and patron on a mystical path of self realization as Siva.

Shiva is the destroyer and part of the Brahma, Vishnu, Shiva trinity.

Not that a destroyer can't also be compassionate, but the different descriptions are confusing.

Thanks!

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam: Siva and Shiva are the same, meaning the God. Saiva, Shaiva, Saivite, Shaivite, are all names for the religion of following Siva, or believing Siva/Shiva is supreme. The pronunciation of s, or sh varies regionally, so both are correct.

The understanding of the nature of Siva varies from sect to sect as well. I'll try oo be brief. For Saivas He is God, for Smartas. he's one of several choices who is God, for Vaishnavites, he;s more minor, etc. The trinity is mostly the western encyclopedia way of explaining Hinduism.

Others will undoubtedly have differing explanations.

Aum Namasivaya

[Believer]

Namaste,

To add to what EM has already offered, in Hinduism, the Divine appeared on earth in many incarnations. People of different traditions consider one of these incarnations to be 'their God'. Many times these issues are brought to the forum in the form of 'my God is better than yours', even though they are all incarnations of the same Hindu Divine. Some of us are staunch adherers of one deity whereas others consider and pay respect to all incarnations. It is all a matter of personal preference.

A yuga I believe is variable period of time lasting hundreds of thousands of years. There are four yugas for one go around, from creation to the destruction of the cosmos. Different deities appeared in different yugas. The Concept of time in Hinduism is much, much larger than in other faiths. Here is what Carl Sagan had to say,

"The Hindu religion is the only one of the world's great faiths dedicated to the idea that the Cosmos itself undergoes an immense, indeed an infinite, number of deaths and rebirths. It is the only religion in which the time scales correspond, to those of modern scientific cosmology. Its cycles run from our ordinary day and night to a day and night of Brahma, 8.64 billion years long. Longer than the age of the Earth or the Sun and about half the time since the Big Bang. And there are much longer time scales still."

"For modern physicists, then, Shiva's dance is the dance of subatomic matter. Hundreds of years ago, Indian artist created visual images of dancing Shiva's in a beautiful series of bronzes. Today, physicist have used the most advanced technology to portray the pattern of the cosmic dance. Thus, the metaphor of the cosmic dance unifies, ancient religious art and modern physics. The Hindus, according to Monier-Williams, were Spinozists more than 2,000 years before the advent of Spinoza, and Darwinians many centuries before Darwin and Evolutionists many centuries before the doctrine of Evolution was accepted by scientists of the present age."

This is probably much different from what you learnt in your Hinduism 101 class; the grabage invented by Western Indologists, who are basically subservient to Xitianity and have to by the very nature of things show Hinduism to be something puny as compared to their belief system. Those who went deeper than a superficial overview of the faith, came up with this,

"In the morning I bathe my intellect in the stupendous and cosmogonal philosophy of the Bhagavad-Gita, in comparison with which our modern world and its literature seems puny and trivial." ~ Henry David Thoreau

Pranam.

[Liang Ch'an]

Believer,

I also find having some perspective of the vast cycles deeply comforting. Of course Buddhism shares with Hinduism the belief in reincarnation and samsara. A Buddhist kalpa is a similarly long period of time. In one text it says the number of years it takes one soul to achieve full enlightenment is at least 10^150 years. For comparison it's estimated there are 10^80 atoms in the universe. Having no memory of being reincarnated I don't know if that's true necessarily but it would be nice if it was.
I also like birth and death simulations like this one http://worldbirthsanddeaths.com that help put things in perspective.
In general, I find the doctrines of dependent arising and impermanence very helpful. One of the best ways to deal with suffering is to be aware that it is temporary . I am sure there are some Hindu schools that similar teachings.
I find myself very drawn to Shiva as a mystical symbol/representation of impermanence and destruction, but yet of deep compassion. I have several things in my life and in myself that could use being destroyed! I also work in a nursing home and death is a daily reality for me that's been difficult to deal with. I've found myself having to no longer see death as negative nor ignore it being ever present. Shiva is a comforting way of seeing and welcoming death and its change and relief.


I want to be careful to not offend though since I have barely started my study and I want to respect anyone who would upset by the description of a symbol. The Reality I experience through meditation is impossible to describe sometimes it seems like a personable, compassionate God, sometimes completely passive force, sometimes like nothing at all. I don't feel adequate to explaining the Buddhist doctrine of emptiness properly but to me it signifies the inability to attach definable properties or non-properties to the true nature of things. So right now, Shiva is another helpful way I can see the elephant.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_men_and_an_elephant

[karthik]

In saiva siddhanta they say that only one who creates can destroy. Shiva,Vishnu and Brahma is not trinity but hierarchy....shiva being at top.

It actually consists of 9 hierarchical level where aadhi Shiva transforms to sakthi and up to Brahma.

[Believer]

Namaste,

Shiva,Vishnu and Brahma is not trinity by hierarchy....shiva being at top.

Are you here to start WW III?

Pranam.

[karthik]

Namaste,


Are you here to start WW III?

Pranam.

This is the common misconception among many people who end up reading mainstream propaganda which tries to make hinduism look simple and the same like christianity.

There was no trinity in hinduism.

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam: I agree with the idea that the trinity is something that was projected onto us by Europeans trying to analyse us. There are lots of concepts in Hinduism that there were no words for, so they (Europeans) used their own words or concepts and projected them onto us. It results in a lot of misunderstandings, trinity just being one of many.

As for who is at the top, that varies from sect to sect, and is best kept to yourself in any overall Hindu discussion. It's better to see the big picture that Vaishnavites view Vishnu as God, Saivas view Siva as God, and Shaktas view Mother as God. It reminds me of the old parable about two guys on opposite sides of the river each yelling at the other that he is on the other (read 'wrong' side, unable to hover above the scene and see the bigger picture. I see no place for sectarian politics in Hindu Solidarity. We are all brothers and have bigger enemies (adharma, anava, karma) to conquer than who is Supreme.

Aum Namasivaya

[Believer]

Namaste,

As for who is at the top, that varies from sect to sect, and is best kept to yourself in any overall Hindu discussion. It's better to see the big picture that Vaishnavites view Vishnu as God, Saivas view Siva as God, and Shaktas view Mother as God. It reminds me of the old parable about two guys on opposite sides of the river each yelling at the other that he is on the other (read 'wrong' side, unable to hover above the scene and see the bigger picture. I see no place for sectarian politics in Hindu Solidarity. We are all brothers and have bigger enemies (adharma, anava, karma) to conquer than who is Supreme.

Thanks EM; that is what I was alluding to when I made my WW III comment - who you think is at the top should be best kept to yourself. Discussion of such a topic brings disharmony from many passionate HDF members.

Pranam.

[karthik]

You guys misunderstood again....shivites call the one god who is many as shiva and vishnavites as vishnu.

Both shivism and vaishnaism adopt their ideas from vedas....and if you know vedas there the no real name for the one god.

Namaste,



Thanks EM; that is what I was alluding to when I made my WW III comment - who you think is at the top should be best kept to yourself. Discussion of such a topic brings disharmony from many passionate HDF members.

Pranam.

Im not saying that shiva is the supreme god.