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Thread: Please answer these questions --

  1. #1
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    Please answer these questions --

    Namaste,

    Someone asked me these following questions, I would love to get replies for these from the learned here in HDF:

    (1) There are more than 9 planets in the milky way galaxy - why Jyotish considers only 9 planets.

    (2) As per jyotish, Sun is a 'planet'. As per science, it is a star. Then how come Jyotish is a science?
    (3) The Moon is not a planet, but one as per Jyotish. Why so?

    Thank you,

    Viraja
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

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    Re: Please answer these questions --

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    If one is casually taking of astrology (*jyotish) then the term planet may be the mundane/acceptable term used.
    Yet in jyotish the more definitive name is grāhaka ग्राहक - one who seizes or takes captive ; from grāha ग्रह- seizing , laying hold of , holding i.e. a grāhaka ~seizes~ or influences the circumstances of the native. This is done via the tattva they manage or influence.
    Also this ~influnce~ comes on 3 levels:

    • graha devatā or the physical level
    • adhi-devatā - key here is adhi = over and above , so this is the next level above the 1st level or above graha devatā, and is more refined then the physical i.e. the mental, manas.
    • pratyadhi devatā - ( adhi = above) and pratya as pratyi has a few meanings i.e. ' in the presence of' , 'on par' suggesting in the presence of the highest.


    So, this suggests that the sun and moon are grāhaka or grāha-s.

    Why nine grāha-s? This you will find within the jyotish folder.

    My question to you…
    rāśi राशि - a sign of the zodiac (as being a certain sum or quantity of degrees i.e. 30º); what does rāśi mean? A a heap , mass , pile , group , multitude , quantity.

    In jyotish we recognize 12 signs, yet clearly there are 88 that are viewed in the sky. And, of those 88, the grāha-s pass though 12 of them. The 12 we call out within
    this science. But that said , if one studies a sky map you will see 13 signs that the grāha-s traverse. Now how does one come to comprehend this?

    Aries
    Taurus
    Gemini
    Cancer
    Leo
    Virgo
    Libra
    Scorpio
    Ophiuchus
    Sagittarius
    Capricorn
    Aquarius
    Pisces

    इतिशिवं
    iti śivaṁ
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Please answer these questions --

    Yajvan ji,

    Maybe Ophiuchus is traversed only in its tail end -- ?? Sorry I'm out of clues, I cannot think of any answer. This is the first time I'm hearing there are actually 13 zodiac signs that the planets traverse in the sky -- fascinating!! Actually, those details such as equinox, rasis and their calculation, ayanamsa, etc, are details I never understood with my limited understanding ability.

    The person who raised the above questions also raised 2 more,

    1. Why Rahu and Ketu have no place in Western astrology?
    2. Why earth is not considered a planet in jyotish?

    I'm sorry I'm solely looking up to you for knowledge, without having the potential to offer any myself. I regret this situation, kindly forgive.

    Many sincere regards,

    Viraja
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

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    Re: Please answer these questions --

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté


    Quote Originally Posted by Viraja View Post
    Yajvan ji,
    Maybe Ophiuchus is traversed only in its tail end -- ?? Sorry I'm out of clues, I cannot think of any answer. This is the first time I'm hearing there are actually 13 zodiac signs that the planets traverse in the sky -- fascinating!! Actually, those details such as equinox, rasis and their calculation, ayanamsa, etc, are details I never understood with my limited understanding ability.

    The person who raised the above questions also raised 2 more,

    1. Why Rahu and Ketu have no place in Western astrology?
    2. Why earth is not considered a planet in jyotish?

    I'm sorry I'm solely looking up to you for knowledge, without having the potential to offer any myself. I regret this situation, kindly forgive.

    Many sincere regards, Viraja
    A few ideas... let me start with the easiest first.
    • What of western astrology , why no rahu or ketu? I do not know. I have many opinions, but they are just that, I prefer to stay away from conjecture.
    • What of 12 constellations vs. 13? How one divides up the sky is a matter of preference. The 88 constellations were agreed upon in 1928. If
      we look up maybe we would see 125 or 68 or 99. It is how one views the sky. Modern astronomy does not always align to the vision of our
      ancient seers.

      • While people were waddling in the mud thinking the sun circled the earth the jyotiśi-s and seers knew otherwise. They too knew
        of galaxies and the like. So when they viewed the path of the grāhaka they chose 12. Now why 12? I will let you pursue this in your study
        and research ( wouldn't 10 be easier?).

    • Where is earth in jyotish? It IS used. How would one calculate lagna¹ ( sounds like lugna) without the earth and its horizon ? Where
      would time be ( a most important category) without the earth? Where would sun rise and sun set be without earth? How would
      I measure/calcuate birth time without the earth? What of finding the appropriate time for performing yajñas (yajñakālārtha-siddhayaye)
      that occur on this earth? This originally was the 1st application of jyotish ( so say the wise) i.e. panchānga knowledge.
      It (earth) is so integrated into jyotish one does not even see it.


    इतिशिवं
    iti śivaṁ


    1. lagna - adhered , adhering or clinging to , attached to , sticking or remaining in , fixed on . Some call ascendant.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Please answer these questions --

    Thank you, Yajvan ji. I'll use your reply into further study and research as you said.

    Many thanks again.
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

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    Re: Please answer these questions --

    Namaste Viraja ji

    Did you ask yourself Why only 26 alphabets in English when you started learning English? Or in your entire life time did you consider it as a worthy research?

    I think you should listen to Shree Chinna jeeyar's upanyasams. They are mostly in telugu with English mixture.
    Anirudh...

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    Re: Please answer these questions --

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    Quote Originally Posted by Anirudh View Post
    Namaste Viraja ji

    Did you ask yourself Why only 26 alphabets in English when you started learning English? Or in your entire life time did you consider it as a worthy research?

    I think you should listen to Shree Chinna jeeyar's upanyasams. They are mostly in telugu with English mixture.

    Can you help the reader understand how language skills and learn thereof aligns with the jyotish questions at hand? I am sure there is a connection you wish
    to offer that the reader does not see.

    इतिशिवं
    iti śivaṁ
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  8. #8
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    Re: Please answer these questions --

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté




    Can you help the reader understand how language skills and learn thereof aligns with the jyotish questions at hand? I am sure there is a connection you wish
    to offer that the reader does not see.

    इतिशिवं
    iti śivaṁ
    Namaste Yajvan ji

    When the learner is at the beginner's level it's not a worthy effort to know why there are only 26 letters instead the focus should be to master the grammar, improve vocabulary etc. Vedic Astrology (although I am just a beginner) is beyond White man's Science (apologies, if I sound racial). So an attempt to compare both is a waste of time.

    My understanding is that every concept in our sacred text is an unquestionable fact. HHow ever a comparison between Advaita and Dvaita is a worthy exercise because we aren't comparing apples with oranges.

    Shree Chinna Jeeyar in his discourses has explained the richness of Vedic science in subtle ways. For example can the so called Science define Satisfaction or hungriness scientifically and uniformly? But our seers have done that 1000s of years ago.

    Bottom line is comparing apples with oranges not only an useless effort but also distract our focus.

    You have already shared my view in a subtle way with the Galileo reference.
    Anirudh...

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    Re: Please answer these questions --

    Namaste Anirudh ji,

    Good point indeed! Never occured to me to tell the person who asked about Western astrology, to not compare the 2 totally different systems. Now, I have a few good answers, thanks to you, and Yajvan ji.

    Regards,

    Viraja
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

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    Re: Please answer these questions --

    Dear Viraja,

    1. Lunar nodes are used in tropical astrology! Please ask the person to explore their literature widely.

    2. Earth is very much used in jyotish which like most prevailing astrologies is GEO-centric! Everything is studied from the vantage point of earth. Lagna-sphuta for instance, and what we depict as the 'moving' sun is really a projection of the moving earth?

    It might help to think of the bhavas as receptacles into which planets and planet-sama indicators pour their rasa as per the allotments of an individual's karma. Planets (jugs) do not pour it all in each set of 12 receptacles equally. The imagery of jala-taranga instrument (bowls filled with different amounts of planetary essence and emitting different notes) might help...?

    Happy New Year!

    Rohiniranjan
    _________________
    MA GIVE US eyes to see, and minds to understand what the eyes see, and hearts beating in unison to keep the eyes and minds alive and ALL OF US engaged in serving YOU FOREVER.

    A birth-epoch is a seemingly-random TRANSIT-epoch that gains a personal-meaningfulness and becomes a beacon in the current lifetime of the incarnated soul-fragment; the union of a kona (angle) with a trikona (trine)...?

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