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Thread: Who is behind Adharmic actions? Sriman Naaraayan?

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    Who is behind Adharmic actions? Sriman Naaraayan?

    Who is behind Adharmic actions. Living beings, devatas (like Indra, Agni, Vaayu etc) or Sriman Naaraayan?

    Let's take an example. Kunti didn't had the mental maturity to understand the consequences of misusing the gift given to her by the Rishi. When Rishi was able to see the future ahead and imparted her boons, wouldn't he be capable to understand that She will play with it. And when Shri Surya was called by Kunti playfully (ie in her adolescent age to verify) why didn't he had the vision to see it through? I can chain many questions like this. The underlying fact is each person involved has committed Sin.

    Without Sriman Naaraayan nothing happens. Then is he not responsible for the Adharmic actions done by various characters?
    Anirudh...

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    Re: Who is behind Adharmic actions? Sriman Naaraayan?

    Namaste Anirudh ji,

    In my limited understanding, there are prakriti and purusha in nature. Prakriti is very chanchal and is responsible for all delusions, the ego and all actions. This prakriti is of varying kinds - some are born with sattwic prakriti, some with rajasic prakriti and some with tamasic prakriti. So therefore, you see all actions originate from prakriti which is different from Purusha (supreme soul). So while prakriti 'performs', purusha 'sanctions'. Which means, purusha 'allows' each prakriti to act as per its will and design, but eventually the good purusha sees that the sum result of these actions are to face consequences which will lead the prakriti to light.

    Sorry to one and all if my response is not right. this is my understanding only.
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

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    Re: Who is behind Adharmic actions? Sriman Naaraayan?

    Namaste Viraja ji

    I can understand what you are talking about by saying Prakruthi and Purusha. Without getting into philosophy (Advaita) have you ever asked yourself why should all this happen?
    Now a days 3 (Sri Hanuman, Karna and Siya Ke Ram) religious serials are aired.

    Sri Hanuman fights Yama Dev to bring back the life of his father because Yama wanted to punish Sri Hanuman for having interfered with the duty of devatas. Like wise in remaining two. The common thing is even Devatas indulge in Adharmic activities even though they are free from Birth&Death cycle. Whether it's Drithrashta or Sri Vayu Dev, no one is immune to Putra Moha (love for their offspring).

    I didn't raise this question under philosophy. From our epics what are we suppose to learn? Fight against Adharma and 're establish Dharma? How are we suppose to view the world we live, a battle ground?
    Anirudh...

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    Re: Who is behind Adharmic actions? Sriman Naaraayan?

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté


    Quote Originally Posted by Anirudh View Post
    Who is behind Adharmic actions.
    Here are my views on this matter. They are guided/supported by the 3rd śloka of the īśāvāsyopaniṣad ( īśāvāsya¹ upaniṣad) that provides substantial insight on this matter…

    asuryā namā te lokā andhena tamasā' vṛtaḥh |
    tam̐ste pretyābhigacchanti ye ke cātmahano janāḥ|| 3
    • asuryā = belonging to asurā-s (demons); it also means ‘night’ and therefore darkness is implied
    • nāma = thus is certain or ‘indeed’
    • te = they, those
    • lokā = worlds
    • andhena tamasā = nibidandhakarena = blinding (andha) darkness (tamasā)
    • vṛtaḥ = enveloped , surrounded by , covered with;
    • tan = (to) them
    • pretya = upon death
    • abhigacchanti= fall into, are trapped into;
    • ye ke = those who
    • ātmahano = killing , slaughter (hana) of the SELF (ātman)
      • Some see this (ātmahano) like this: ātmahanaḥ = yathavad ātmajñānāmajñātva vaiparityena janantaḥ = failing to know ātman correctly,( yathā – that which is right and proper) persists in false knowledge only
      • 'knowledge here does not mean scholastic knowledge but the direct revelation of one's own pure Being, Self.

    • janah = persons i.e. creature , living being , man , person , race


    One translation
    The worlds of eternal misery, covered with unremitting darkness, indeed, do they fall into without recourse, they who, having failed to realize\know the truth about the SELF (Being, presence, pure awareness, Lord of SELF), persist in false knowledge.

    Another view …
    Demonic indeed are those worlds covered-over by blinding darkness. ( It is ) to those worlds ( of darkness) go those
    who are the killers of the SELF (ātmahano), having departed.

    The ‘code’ here is this… the killers of the SELF (ātmahano) are those that have not realized their true essential/core
    nature. It is ~as if~ they killed it by overshadowing the SELF with non-SELF.

    So what is my point? Collectively ( as a society) we are our own friend or foe. Adharma comes to this world aligned
    to our collective purity or impurity, meaning infusion of pure consciousness/Being Self into our collective society.

    इतिशिवं
    iti śivaṁ

    words

    • īśāvāsya = īśā + vāsya
      • īśa = Supreme; complete master;
      • āvāsya = inhabited by , full of

    Hence īśāvāsya is the Supreme that inhabits or dwells (va) in all; We come to say from the 2nd śloka
    that it is īśa that covers all or everything (sarvaṁ)
    • īśāvāsyopaniṣad is written this way as the last ‘a’ of īśāvāsya + the first ‘u’ of upaniṣad when combined = ‘o

    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Who is behind Adharmic actions? Sriman Naaraayan?

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté


    I wrote in the post above,
    So what is my point? Collectively ( as a society) we are our own friend or foe. Adharma comes to this world aligned
    to our collective purity or impurity, meaning infusion of pure consciousness/Being Self into our collective society.
    This begs the question, how to become pure if we live in a society of purity and impurity? Some would argue more impurity than pure?
    I look to this āvāhanaṁ¹ (invocation) from the garuḍa purāṇa (2.47.52).

    apavitraḥ pavitrau vā
    sarvāvastām gataupi vā |
    yaḥ smarat pundarīkākśam
    sa bhāhyābhyantaraḥ suciḥ ||


    What does this say in brief ?
    Whether pure or impure, whether all places are permeated by purity or impurity, whoever opens himself to the Lotus Eyed One gains inner and outer purity.

    In a nut shell, the one that opens him/her self - moves to, puts oneself in contact with, remembers, experiences or 'sees' (sūci) the Lotus-eyed One (puṇḍarīka), then this person will gain inner and outer purity i.e. bhā or luster, light, will manifest within this person. This 'person' can be considered the adhvanīya अध्वनीन, a traveler, the person on the path.

    This Lotus-eyed One (puṇḍarīka) is Viṣṇu or Śiva. Puṇḍarīka पुण्डरीक is a lotus-flower, esp. a white lotus expressive of beauty; and we know 'eyed' is akṣa अक्ष. So Pundarīkākśa the white-lotus (puṇḍarīka) + eyed (akṣa अक्ष) is the puṇḍa पुण्ड or mark or a sign of Viṣṇu or Śiva.

    This is considered saṁketa - a hint, a indication, a symbol. But of what? Pundarīkākśa and its'mark' is pure awareness, of unboundedness, of būmān - the fullness of the Absolute, the SELF. It is by opening oneself to the fullness of pure awareness that one gains inner and outer purity. This is anugraha (grace, favor) that is offered (su - to grant or bestow) by Pundarīkākśa, allowing this to manifest in one's daily life.

    इतिशिवं
    iti śivaṁ

    words
    The sūkta by its words

    • apavitra अपवित्र - impure note that apa अप when used as a prefix to nouns and verbs , expresses 'away' , 'off' , 'back'
    • pavitra पवित्र - a means of purification , filter ; a means of purifying or clearing the mind ; rain or rubbing
    • vā वा- 'or', 'on the one side' , 'on the other'
    • sarva सर्व -whole , entire , all , every
    • vastu वस्तु - the seat or place of; any really existing or abiding substance or essence; vasta वस्त- a house
    • gata गत - come to, arrived at; known, understood ; gone to any state or condition , fallen into ; relating to , referring to , connected with
    • pi पि - move, to go
    • yaḥ यःor ya य- mover, goer
    • sma स्म- 'ever' , 'always' (as in remembering) ;
    • smara स्मर -memory , remembrance , recollection ; loving recollection;
      • smaret is = smara स्मर memory , remembrance , recollection ; loving recollection

    • puṇḍarīka पुण्डरीक + akṣa अक्ष= (beautiful, lotus-flowered, lotus-eyed; now the necxt word suggests 'sa' a noun for viṣṇu or śiva it is He that is puṇḍarīka, the beautiful, lotus-eye Lord of spendor (bhā)
    • puṇḍa पुण्ड- a mark, sign; puṇḍarīka पुण्डरीक- a lotus-flower, esp. a white lotus expressive of beauty;
    • akṣa - the eye; also a seed as in rudrākṣa
    • sa स - with, togetther with, along with - as it connect to sa
    • bhā भा- to manifest; light , brightness , splendour ; to appear as , seem , look like , pass for ; be, exist;
    • ba ब -often meaning va व- auspicious; ocean, water; strong, powerful; wind, air
    • bhāya; also a noun for viṣṇu or śiva
    • tara तर- concuring, surpassing, ; a raft ( for crossing)
    • su - is rooted sū सू- grant, bestow
    • ya य- mover, goer and/or yad यद्'so that', 'as in so much' ; masculine - puruṣa
    • sūci सूचि or sūcī सूची- sight , seeing (dṛṣṭi) ; su is rooted sū सू- grant, bestow and applies here to what is granted.

    additional words

    • āvāhana आवाहन- invocation , invitation , inviting, calling; āvāhanaṁ आवाहनं is āvāhana
    • Garuḍa गरुड- 'devourer'; vehicle of viṣṇu that is a winged bird, chief of the feathered race , enemy of the serpent-race
    • Purāṇa पुराण-a class of sacred works compiled by the kavi vyāsa; the word Purāṇa itself means belonging to ancient or olden times; There are 18 major purāṇa-s.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Who is behind Adharmic actions? Sriman Naaraayan?

    thanks for this beautiful question which has been keeping me confused since many years without any proper answers. Definitely its Narayana himself!!!

    That"s why he is PURNA BRAHMAN! Adharma and dharma, light and darkness,hunter and preys. Sinner and blissful. He commits sins and punish himself too. Its like self-correcting mechanism and it keeps itself checked from vicious cycle of sins.

    Just answer your question regarding Rishi"s boon,we can say Rishi has the future vision of Pandu"s death and same can be said about Sun God. The entire process is very complicated when viewed by ignorant peoples like us,but actually all are in perfectly sync and rhythm.

    To understand the nature of prakriti we need to evolve with knowledge and sadhna and decide our path to reach the absolute neutral side of Narayana.
    Man-naathah Shri Jagan-nathah Mat-guru-shri jagad-guruhu.
    Mad-atma sarva-bhutatma tasmai Shri Gurave Namah.


    My Lord is the Lord of Universe; My teacher is the teacher of the
    entire universe; and my Self is the Self of all. My salutations at the lotus-feet
    of such a Guru, who has revealed such knowledge to me.

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    Re: Who is behind Adharmic actions? Sriman Naaraayan?

    Namaste Yajvan ji and Anivaran ji

    Thanks for sharing your views. We are discussing about a system which has countless players indulging in countless Adharmic activities right from abusing our own body (bestowed to us a vehicle to reach Sriman Naaraayan) to entire world we live.

    Arjuna knew to negate Bhramasthra fired by Aswadhdama but modern science wasn't even aware of the effects of Hiroshima Nagasaki. Yet they chillingly dropped it.Why should Japan feel the heat when massive Adharmic activities like concentration camps were carried out in the epic center of WW2.

    Even Thousands of perl harbour cant equate the destruction caused by the exploded Nuke. It might hurt American members but their action was nothing less than what Aswadhdama did.

    If you folks are interested please validate your views with the modern challenges to Humanity like increased vulgarity in personal life, covet terrorism and deprivation.

    Let's say system would correct itself but when? In the 432000 years (kali yuga) we barely crossed 1%. In comparison the days of Mahabharata was not as bad as World war 2 especially the atrocities of Holocaust. Now please go back to my initial question and Validate your views.

    In my limited understanding (bestowed by Sriman Naaraayan) I firmly believe we are living in battle field. We are responsible for the course of this battle. Our Guide is Sriman Naaraayan and the rule book is Srimad B.G. And Sriman Naaraayan is not responsible for the Adharmic actions.

    PS. I took WW2 example to help you understand the scale of destruction and post effects. By any means we can't say the system has corrected itself.
    Anirudh...

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    Re: Who is behind Adharmic actions? Sriman Naaraayan?

    Namaaste Anirudh,

    Its prakriti where everything is happening. The rule is prakriti should remain balanced with 3 gunas ; satva,rajas,tamas. whenever there will be gross imbalance,we have to understand that whole tatva going towards Nirguna state.

    Its not happening as of now. But yes,its very bad time of KALI, and its getting worse day by day.

    If you look at history and purana, you will observe that the punishment or reward to a persons comes sometimes very late,sometimes instant. just look at Duryodhan,from childhood till 18yrs of forest roaming of panadavs,he was growing and growing with strength. Ravana was the king for some half of a KALPA before killed.

    The cosmic time is extremely slow(infact there is nothing called time as its eternal existence) in comparison to human time as our life is very small and we want to see all result in our life time.

    Insects are born and die in billions of numbers and also die in a span of few days on daily basis.so if few lakhs of human dies in a single incident,its not a bid deal on cosmic plane as humans life and insects life are not different except that humans are more evolved.

    The cycle of prakriti revolves from absolute tamas through rajas to suddha sattva.Just for example- A simple atom/dust particle gradually evolves through life of bacteria-plants-insects-animal-human.....in lakhs or millions of years.its like COOLING OFF period before its again become eligible to take human form.

    Similarly a persons who commits enormous sins has indirectly descended to severe tamas and he naturally has to evolve gradually from very primitive life form,for example ferns,grass,insects,mosquito,animals,plant till finally gets chance to become A HUMAN again. All this process has happen in cycles of tamah-rajas-satta of prakriti.

    What is sin in hinduism? what is Punnya? The deed which takes us towards ignorance,towards Tamas and close our spiritual progress is called SIN and Reverse is Punnya.
    And prakriti always try to correct it towards upward evolution: towards sattva, light,knowledge and liberation .This force of prakriti is called YOGAMAYA.

    The reverse force which propels us downward to sustain the flow of creation is called MAHAMAYA.
    Last edited by anirvan; 18 April 2016 at 07:39 AM.
    Man-naathah Shri Jagan-nathah Mat-guru-shri jagad-guruhu.
    Mad-atma sarva-bhutatma tasmai Shri Gurave Namah.


    My Lord is the Lord of Universe; My teacher is the teacher of the
    entire universe; and my Self is the Self of all. My salutations at the lotus-feet
    of such a Guru, who has revealed such knowledge to me.

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    Re: Who is behind Adharmic actions? Sriman Naaraayan?

    Namaste all,

    Very good inputs in this thread ! I would like to share my understanding on this issue :

    a) Anirvan has rightly said, "It all happens in Prakriti". Whatever happens is due to Prakriti's three Gunas. Lord Krishna makes it very clear in Bhagwad Gita :
    "God neither causes the doership nor the actions in this world. He is also not involved in causing the results of the actions. It is the Nature (Prakriti) that works." So, even though nothing ever happens without His consent, He remains untainted with all actions, doership and results of Karma accruing to anyone. It is nothing but the Laws of Prakriti in action.
    b) So, it is the Prakriti which is responsible for anything "good" or "bad" happening in this universe. How does Prakriti works ? Prakriti works through its three gunas : Sattva, Raja and Tama. Now every guna creates possibility of action in a certain direction. The sum-total of these gunas is a Constant. Mathematically speaking, if Sattva = S, Raja = R and Tama = T and Constant is C then we can write :
    S+R+T=C.

    If you increase Sattva and Raja then Tama will decrease accordingly to ensure validity of the above equation. Similarly, if Raja + Tama are increased then Sattva will decrease in the similar proportion. The whole game of "good" and "bad" is the play of these three gunas. The more the Raja + Tama the more "Bad" things will happen. The more the element of Sattva, the more "Good" things would happen.

    c) So, in one way, we can say that God is not responsible for whatever "good" (DhArmic) or "bad" (AdhArmic) in the universe. It is actually the "gunas" of Prakriti which are responsible both for "DhArmic" and also "AdhArmic" actions. Now, how does it happen because Gunas / Prakriti by itself is inert ? Prakriti is not a separate entity but a part and parcel of Brahman in Saguna state. The Purusha (Nirguna Brahman) reflects itself into Prakriti just like Sun reflects on various water pots kept in the sun. This phenomenon is called ChidAbhAsa. This phenomenon creates illusion of agents who can work. All the Jeevas are created in this fashion. Now, these Jeevas have Mann (Observing mind), Buddhi (Intellect) and Ahamkaar (feeling of having a separate identity, capability of enjoying and suffering in Prakriti with mind alone or sense-organs+mind, doership etc. come from Ahamkaar). Now these act as independent entities and the entities can increase or decrease these gunas in different proportions acting with Mann, Buddhi and Ahamkaar and act as per predominance of particular gunas. This has the capability of creating possibilities of both DhArmic and AdhArmic actions within the limitations of gunas / past impressions / prevailing circumstances.

    d) So, can we really say that God is not at all responsible for anything Good or Bad that happens in this universe ? In one way, "Yes", as I have stated above. However, if we look the whole phenomena from a different angle, this all comes from God alone. How ? Because Prakriti has no separate existence or power of its own. So, the three gunas are actually part of God alone even though He is unaffected by the Gunas Himself. So, when Prakriti acts, actually passively God acts because without ChidAbhAsa, Prakriti cannot act.

    e) However, there is another angle to this issue. Is there anything really happening when Brahman remains unchanged untainted even though innumerable things keep happening in the universe within Prakriti ? As Prakriti is not separate from Brahman, how can Brahman remain unaffected when there is any change in Prakriti. Advaita VedAntins say that actually "Nothing happens" ... it is all illusion created by Prakriti / MAyA of Brahman.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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    Re: Who is behind Adharmic actions? Sriman Naaraayan?

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté
    Quote Originally Posted by Anirudh View Post
    Namaste Yajvan ji and Anivaran ji
    In my limited understanding (bestowed by Sriman Naaraayan) I firmly believe we are living in battle field. We are responsible for the course of this battle. Our Guide is Sriman Naaraayan and the rule book is Srimad B.G. And Sriman Naaraayan is not responsible for the Adharmic actions.
    What you have offered makes sense... some see this battlefield outside of one's self within the world of things, societies and belief systems. Others might look to the mahābhārata and suggest this kurukṣetra occurs within ourselves.
    My teacher told us many times,
    the world is as you are. I found this insight to be true. That is, if one is happy, balanced, with a light heart, and knows the truth, then the world follows suit and things are looked at evenly. Things are looked at as the course of time unfolding. It is the wise that see the world properly and they do not grieve (
    so says the
    bhāgavad gītā ). How can this be?
    It suggests to me that we ( those yet to unfold the SELF to the SELF) have a blemish in our view and understanding. We do not have 20-20 vision on the truth of life, on Reality.

    इतिशिवं
    iti śivaṁ





    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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