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Thread: Abuse the giver by abusing the gift....

  1. #1
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    Abuse the giver by abusing the gift....

    Namaste

    Today morning stopped at Shree Hanuman Mandir to have a one on one with him. While circumvallating I don't why but my mind was restless.

    What should I ask him? Whatever I have is the result and effect of my actions. Like it or not, I have no choice to evade it.

    What should I tell him? He knows everything about me.

    What should I offer him. He has Shree Raama Chandra Prabhu deeply engraved om his chest. What else I can offer?

    Can he be my friend? But I am full of so many impurities. Then do I stand to be friend? I don't know....

    My destination is about 2 K.M from his Mandir.I decided to walk instead of public transport so that I can spend sometime with myself. Busses Cars Motor bikes were carrying their payload to their respective destinations. Everything around me was changing its position.

    What's the purpose of this movement? Who is the causal agent. What is he( agent)expecting me.If there can't be anything without a cause, van there be anything without expectation?

    If Sriman Naaraayan (substitute your Ishta Devata) is my causal agent, won't he have an expectation. If I don't standup to his expectation, am I abusing him.

    Why should I abuse myself in turm abuse my causal agent? By not living up to his expectation am I not abusing him?


    Tell Meeee........
    Anirudh...

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    Re: Abuse the giver by abusing the gift....

    Namaste,

    1. When I was born, I brought with me a complete story of how my life would turn up and what I would do on a daily basis.
    2. I am not the doer, He gets things done through me.
    3. My good/bad fortune will be dictated by my past deeds.

    I am constantly torn between some of the conflicting things in the above statements. Westerners bring in the concept of 'free will' and argue that we do have a free hand in dealing with the day to day situations, but I don't find any substantiation of that in any of our scriptures. So, it is a continuing conflict, a lack of understanding to harmonize the basic concepts.

    Regarding being disrespectful to the Creator by not living up to His expectations; if I am destined a life per the storyline handed to me at birth then I am merely following the script. There is no under or over performance.

    When your head starts to hurt thinking about every little thing; give philosophical thinking a rest and live life the best way you can.

    Pranam.

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    Re: Abuse the giver by abusing the gift....

    Namaste,

    My understanding is this :
    a) Per Rig-veda and Vedantic scriptures, "Desire" is the cause of all creation. The first desire at Cosmic Consciousness level is, "May I be many".
    b) This Cosmic Desire gave rise to the whole phenomena of Waking and Dreaming states of this world and these two were fully pervaded by PrajnAnghana i.e. God who is the master of both states.
    c) At individual level too, things are basically driven by our desires. Desires brings in "Sankalpa" (desire to achieve something or do something) and associated several tendencies and "actions" (include our thoughts too) into play with the help of the three gunas of nature.
    d) These actions or karmas becomes driving forces and they guide our future tendencies and actions. This creates a virtually endless cycle and is the cause of our births and deaths and roles played by us again and again during our several lifetimes.
    ***********************
    Is it all predestined or we have our freewill ? If it is all predestined, then there is no motivation for us to do anything good. My study says that nearly 65% of whatever happens in our life is predestined due to our past karmas and balance nearly 35% is affected by our present karmas. If there is nothing in our hand then all sufferings that anyone goes through becomes predestined and that would make God favourably or unfavourably partial to people which violates the very idea of God. So, do we have a free-will ? My understanding is that we have limited freewill within our pre-decided role at Cosmic level.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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    Re: Abuse the giver by abusing the gift....

    Namaste Believer ji

    2. I am not the doer, He gets things done through me.
    Assuming you are quoting Srimad B.G here wish to bring to your notice in-depth explanation has been given by revered Acharyas. I choose Sri Raamanuja Acharya's views to understand.

    It's important to note the context in which that was told by Shree Krishna. If the context is clear then you won't see that as conflicting ideas.

    Remaining 2 aren't conflicting, me thinks..

    In fact we can change the course of the effects of our past deeds. I am not trying to be a spiritual healer here. Do we stop travelling although we know accidents do occur?

    When your head starts to hurt thinking about every little thing; give philosophical thinking a rest and live life the best way you can.
    I liked the humor in your views. At one end we blame ourselves for what has happened to us. From the other we don't want to think whayvwe can learn from simple things. It reminds me the movie I saw long ago. it's about the life of a sailor who reaches no man island due to a violent storm. When his effort to reach his home fails repearedly, draw inspiration from an Ant that won't giveup.
    Anirudh...

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    Re: Abuse the giver by abusing the gift....

    Namaste to all, here my 2 cent of understanding...

    PRE-DESTINED: called as PRARBDHA.......we born with a defined story from birth to death. It will go unstoppable like a FLOW till death. It was decided by previous -previous birth KARMA & DESIRE. This prarbdha will decide major opportunities and setbacks of life,predominant sorrow and happiness of life,illness,death, marriage etc.

    Also it will lead to the next story in similar fashion UNLESS intervened .

    FREE-WILL : This is what decides in ascendance to next horizon.(next level of consciousness). If not applied well,next story will be worse.

    This free will is very relative and can take a soul upward or downward exponentially.

    When this free will is directed towards SPIRITUAL PROGRESS,IT IS NOT AFFECTED BY PRE-DESTINY.

    Also this free can lead to karma which can affect the prarbdha bhog.

    To summarize all with a anecdote :

    SINGING ON KARAOKE

    music and lyrics and SUR is going on. outcome will be decided by HOW YOU SING IN SYNC.
    Man-naathah Shri Jagan-nathah Mat-guru-shri jagad-guruhu.
    Mad-atma sarva-bhutatma tasmai Shri Gurave Namah.


    My Lord is the Lord of Universe; My teacher is the teacher of the
    entire universe; and my Self is the Self of all. My salutations at the lotus-feet
    of such a Guru, who has revealed such knowledge to me.

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    Re: Abuse the giver by abusing the gift....

    Quote Originally Posted by anirvan View Post
    Namaste to all, here my 2 cent of understanding...

    PRE-DESTINED: called as PRARBDHA.......we born with a defined story from birth to death. It will go unstoppable like a FLOW till death. It was decided by previous -previous birth KARMA & DESIRE. This prarbdha will decide major opportunities and setbacks of life,predominant sorrow and happiness of life,illness,death, marriage etc.

    Also it will lead to the next story in similar fashion UNLESS intervened .

    FREE-WILL : This is what decides in ascendance to next horizon.(next level of consciousness). If not applied well,next story will be worse.

    This free will is very relative and can take a soul upward or downward exponentially.

    When this free will is directed towards SPIRITUAL PROGRESS,IT IS NOT AFFECTED BY PRE-DESTINY.
    Also this free can lead to karma which can affect the prarbdha bhog.

    To summarize all with a anecdote :

    SINGING ON KARAOKE

    music and lyrics and SUR is going on. outcome will be decided by HOW YOU SING IN SYNC.
    Namaste anirvan

    Your views remind me another member named as Grames. He is not to be seen in HDF these days.

    Could you please explain what do you mean by spiritual progress in this context. There is tendency to think spiritual progress as choosing ascetic life and alienating from worldly life ie living with your family. Not all can give up their responsibility to opt ascetic life. How different is spiritual progress from the four phases of Purushartha? Responsibility shouldn't be seen as attachment to materialistic pleasures. I have many questions on the Purushartha but at the moment we ll go one step at a time.

    Pranaam
    Anirudh...

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    Re: Abuse the giver by abusing the gift....

    Namaste Anirudha ji,

    Ascetic life is not the only purushartha in hinduism. In fact there is no specific path or best path towards truth. It depends upon the individual and his position on the infinite long LADDER starting from the very primitive ATOM(ANU) to very highest BRAHMAN. Each individual is at some step on this ladder.

    One can attain truth just living a normal worldly life and one may even need thousands of years leading a tough ascetic life. There is no formula or sure short way.

    What my Guruji said in simplified word :

    To attain god,one needs to be mad for him. Normal thinking men are far away from. when you becomes insanely mad for him,he can"t stay long away from you ""!

    So just be a small child and weep for him day and night.he will take to his lap!!!
    Last edited by anirvan; 20 July 2016 at 02:25 AM.
    Man-naathah Shri Jagan-nathah Mat-guru-shri jagad-guruhu.
    Mad-atma sarva-bhutatma tasmai Shri Gurave Namah.


    My Lord is the Lord of Universe; My teacher is the teacher of the
    entire universe; and my Self is the Self of all. My salutations at the lotus-feet
    of such a Guru, who has revealed such knowledge to me.

  8. #8
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    Re: Abuse the giver by abusing the gift....

    Namaste Anirvan
    It depends upon the individual and his position on the infinite long LADDER starting from the very primitive ATOM(ANU) to very highest BRAHMAN. Each individual is at some step on this ladder.
    We Human are born with the capacity go in search of Truth or Moksha or Brahman or any other noun. But how do Animals (especially ferocious) like Tiger Lion etc climb? All through life they kill others for their survival. I was told by a Sri Vaishnava that even animals posses the right to under go Samasrayanam (according to Sri Vaishnavism (I am just a beginner), Samasrayanam is the first step towards Moksha for a Mumukshu). What I derived with that conversation is Every living being has the option to reach Moksha or attain Moksha in that birth itself.



    We reach the position to appreciate wonderful life we have been blessed when we realize insects living in unhealthy environment are also living beings. This thread is primarily to create an awareness that our life is too precious to while away quenching our desires. Every desire brings along misery and pushes you further down. That said, what would inspire animal like Crocodile to climb the ladder.

    Second thing is how could it be infinite ladder? Did you want to say circular? Term circular inspires me to ask an interesting question. But that would digress the discussion.


    PS: I am not trying to discuss Advaita or VA here but wont restrict others to give examples from their chosen path. I gave examples from what I know.
    Anirudh...

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    Re: Abuse the giver by abusing the gift....

    namaste anirudh,

    Pranam Anirudh,


    What scriptures says is that apart from human, rest of livings and non-livings are under the rules of nature"prakriti. So they neither have free will ,nor are they responsible for their actions. so there is no question of moksha.

    But yest,they ascend on the ladder by virtue of nature. Each and every thing from ANU to Galaxy will one day merge into brahman by virtue of nature. But it takes billions of years.

    The purpose of SADHNA is to make this process short,which iss possible onle in human birth,because its KARMA-YONI. Rests are BHOGA-YONE,including Devatas.

    Lower animals life is basically a cooling off period and a preparatory phase before they again becomes human to be eligible to do sadhna. They dont have fully developed chakras,energy body and kundalini.
    Man-naathah Shri Jagan-nathah Mat-guru-shri jagad-guruhu.
    Mad-atma sarva-bhutatma tasmai Shri Gurave Namah.


    My Lord is the Lord of Universe; My teacher is the teacher of the
    entire universe; and my Self is the Self of all. My salutations at the lotus-feet
    of such a Guru, who has revealed such knowledge to me.

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    Re: Abuse the giver by abusing the gift....

    Namaste
    Sorry for interepting between nice discussion..
    But anirvan ji can you put some light on this for me?
    Quote Originally Posted by anirvan View Post
    When this free will is directed towards SPIRITUAL PROGRESS,IT IS NOT AFFECTED BY PRE-DESTINY.

    Also this free can lead to karma which can affect the prarbdha bhog.
    Pranam
    Aasato ma sat gamay
    tamaso ma jotirgamay
    mrityorma amrutamgamay
    (Bring me from asat to sat, bring me from darkness (ignorance) to light (knowledge), bring me from death to immortality)
    Om Namah Shivay
    Om Vishnave Namah

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