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Thread: Mind is the cause for bandhan and moksh !!

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    Exclamation Mind is the cause for bandhan and moksh !!

    Respected readers,

    This article is for those readers who who are chanting a mantra either received by a guru or on their own.


    You people do japa of a mantra,have you ever thought what's being used to chant the mantra,it's the senses(eyes,hand,ears..etc) but the
    vedas say that it's the mind which is responsible to elevate one selves--


    मन एव मनुष्याणां कारणं बन्ध मोक्षयोः |
    mana eva manushyaanam karanam bandha mokshayoh (brahma bindu upanishad)

    Mind is the only cause for bandhan(taking birth in this planet) and moksh(to get liberation)
    Eva shabd is used in the above mantra in sanskrit eva means "that only".


    चित्तं एव हि संसारः
    cittam eva hi samsarah (maitreyi upanishad)

    Mind is the only cause to rotate one in the samsara,not the senses.


    मन एव हि संसारः
    manah eva hi samsara (tejo bindu upanishad)

    Mind is the only cause to rotate one in the samsara,not the senses.


    The above mantra(mana eva manushaynaam) is so important that this mantra is quoted in the narada purana,brahma purana
    and many other upanishad's


    anta kale ca mam eva smaran muktva kalevaram yah prayati sah mad bhavam yati nastyatra samsayah | (bhagavad gita)

    The one who quit's his body remembering me only,attains my loka.


    So what do you understand by this, just by chanting hare krishna or any other mantra you can enter golok? no,if you remember
    the form of krishna only and then quit the body then we enter golok.


    So here it is clearly understood that by doing dhyaan(meditation) on krishna only we can remember krishna at the time of death.


    japa koti samam dhyanam(mahabharata,uttara gita)

    Crores of doing japa is equal to one meditation.

    The above shloka is spoken by krishna to arjuna in the uttara gita of the mahabharat,see lord krishna is himself saying that dhyaan is suerior to japa,
    who can be more authorative than krishna who is the knower of all the shashtras.


    And tell me one verse in the gita where krishna has instructed arjuna to do japa.


    Om ity ekasharam brahma vyaharan mam anusmaran

    Chanting the omkara remembering me.


    tasmat sarveshu kaleshu mam anusmara yudhya ca

    Oh arjun remember my form and then do yuddh.


    alodya sarva shastrani vicarya ca punah punah idam ekam hi sunispannam dhyeyo narayano harih
    (skanda purana)

    After studying all the shastras and contemplating on it's meaning again and again,it is dhyaan which has to be done on krishna.


    There is not even one shloka in the puranas which says that japa is the essence of all the shastras.


    ---------------------------

    What happened to ajamila--

    Here also the vishnu dutas instructed ajamila to do manasik bhakti and not with the senses.


    धास्ये मनो भगवति शुद्धं तत् कीर्तनाधिभिः (bhagavatam)
    Dhaasye mano bhagavati suddham tat kirtanadibhih

    I will do kirtan,dhyaan etc through my mind.


    So,how to do dhyaan---

    While you sit in sukh asana and start meditating on krishna the mind will go here and there,so to again fix the mind on krishna
    recollect that point from where your mind has been deviated,now the mind will become firm and you can continue doing dhyaan again.
    Last edited by tsuresh; 28 July 2016 at 04:03 AM.

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    Re: Mind is the cause for bandhan and moksh !!

    Namaste tsuresh
    Here also the vishnu dutas instructed ajamila to do manasik bhakti and not with the senses.
    I have a counter question. Can you distinguish between Mind and Senses or define Mind and Senses without relying on each other?
    Anirudh...

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    Re: Mind is the cause for bandhan and moksh !!

    anirudhhji,

    Mind is the governor(adhyaksh) of the senses and the senses are under the control of the mind.

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    Re: Mind is the cause for bandhan and moksh !!

    Quote Originally Posted by Anirudh View Post
    Namaste tsuresh


    I have a counter question. Can you distinguish between Mind and Senses or define Mind and Senses without relying on each other?
    Namaste..
    I have this same question..
    In kathopnishad and same in geeta it is written that mind controls senses, budhi controls mind and atma controls budhi (intellect)
    There it is written that senses are like horses and mind is the link between horses and charioteer, and budhhi is charioteer.. So mind controls the senses and lead the jeev towards supreme goal..

    So while chanting how can we say that senses are chanting.. Without mind senses are nothing.. Without involvement of mind senses wouldn't work..
    Deaf, blind people's have physical ear, eye but they lack the power to hear or see because of mind.. So senses can't work without mind..

    I agree that meditation is great practice.. But from my view Lord Krishna only suggest that surrender on my form in BG..
    When supreme love flows from your heart you see God which is meditation, god is in your speech which become mantra, and you hear holy voice of God which become Nada
    Pranam
    Aasato ma sat gamay
    tamaso ma jotirgamay
    mrityorma amrutamgamay
    (Bring me from asat to sat, bring me from darkness (ignorance) to light (knowledge), bring me from death to immortality)
    Om Namah Shivay
    Om Vishnave Namah

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    Re: Mind is the cause for bandhan and moksh !!

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté


    Quote Originally Posted by tsuresh View Post
    anirudhhji,

    Mind is the governor(adhyaksh) of the senses and the senses are under the control of the mind.
    Yet they all answer to prāṇa. Prāṇa is tightly connected to the mind's movement. Manage prāṇa and you manage the mind.
    Who says this is so ? The chāndogya upaniṣad (chāndogyopaniṣat), 5th prapāṭhaka ( chapter).

    Pluck out your eyes, cut off your ears , remove your tongue - yet take away prāṇa even for a short time and tell me the result.

    इतिशिवं
    iti śivaṁ
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Mind is the cause for bandhan and moksh !!

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté



    Yet they all answer to prāṇa. Prāṇa is tightly connected to the mind's movement. Manage prāṇa and you manage the mind.
    Who says this is so ? The chāndogya upaniṣad (chāndogyopaniṣat), 5th prapāṭhaka ( chapter).

    Pluck out your eyes, cut off your ears , remove your tongue - yet take away prāṇa even for a short time and tell me the result.

    इतिशिवं
    iti śivaṁ
    Namaste
    Maybe vigyan bhairav tantra also suggests the same..
    Pranam
    Aasato ma sat gamay
    tamaso ma jotirgamay
    mrityorma amrutamgamay
    (Bring me from asat to sat, bring me from darkness (ignorance) to light (knowledge), bring me from death to immortality)
    Om Namah Shivay
    Om Vishnave Namah

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    Re: Mind is the cause for bandhan and moksh !!

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté


    Quote Originally Posted by Soul of Light View Post
    Namaste
    Maybe vigyan bhairav tantra also suggests the same..
    Pranam
    The vijñāna bhairava kārikā-s are interested in one thing: śuddha-vijñāna-kevalatā which is isolating (kevalatā) pure (śuddha) awareness (vijñāna) for the sādhu-s re-recognition (~realization~); that is, the unfoldment of this (śuddhavijñāna) so it can be stabilized and nurtured into god consciousness, one's own Being.

    Most śaivāgama-s have 4 parts (pādaḥ) to them - that of rituals (kriyā) proper way of life (caryā), knowledge/philosophies ( vidyā) and spiritual practices (yoga); all of these combined could be called a practice ( abhāsa - repetition , practice, repeated discipline). The vijñāna bhairava kārikā-s are very focused on yoga.

    Within this offer śrī devī asks bhairava (śiva),
    prasādaṁ kuru me nātha niḥśeṣaṁ chindhi saṁśayam | 7a
    O’lord do me this favor/kindness (prasādaṁ kuru) remove all my doubts (saṁśayam) completely (niḥśeṣaṁ) |

    Śrī devī asks 8 + 1 questions and it is from this vantage point that all of her doubts ( about the highest Reality i.e. bhairava) are removed. All of her questions are of this orientation on this Reality and how to reach it – all on yoga.

    So, what does this have to do with mind (manas) ? All the dhāraṇā –s ( or practices) is to bring the sādhu to ‘unmindedness’ to make the mind melt. If the mind is used it is used as a tool to remove itself. How can this be? It is the notion that samādhi (nirālambana¹ in this school of thought) is where there is no mind. Mind is a collection of impressions; it loves to motor on-and-on. It cares not about anything, it just wants to continue to exist.


    तिशिवं
    iti śivaṁ

    1. nirālambana - supportless; Self-supported , not resting on another , fr
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Mind is the cause for bandhan and moksh !!

    Namaste to All,


    Originally Posted by tsuresh

    anirudhhji,

    Mind is the governor(adhyaksh) of the senses and the senses are under the control of the mind.
    Tsuresh ji, you are not able to define mind with out the usage of the word sense. It is meaningful to say Mind controls (substitute any word instead of control, bottom line is-an action is taken upon something) sense but my point is where is Mind when there is no sense?
    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté



    Yet they all answer to prāṇa. Prāṇa is tightly connected to the mind's movement. Manage prāṇa and you manage the mind.
    Who says this is so ? The chāndogya upaniṣad (chāndogyopaniṣat), 5th prapāṭhaka ( chapter).

    Pluck out your eyes, cut off your ears , remove your tongue - yet take away prāṇa even for a short time and tell me the result.

    इतिशिवं
    iti śivaṁ
    Quote Originally Posted by Soul of Light View Post
    Namaste..
    I have this same question..
    In kathopnishad and same in geeta it is written that mind controls senses, budhi controls mind and atma controls budhi (intellect)

    Pranam
    Namaste

    What is prāṇa ? Is it the ability to breath in and breath out or the thing that keeps the body alive (I term it as elixir of life OR Atma or LIFE; give any name, doesn't matter) or brain? If it is breathing, then it is controlled by brain. If it is brain, lungs and heart can be made to work artificially.

    Atma exist independent of the body but can we define it without the body?

    What is the difference between Yajvan and Anirudh and Soul of Light, if we remove the respective identity (body). Three things to be noted here.
    1. Without the body Yajvan or Anirudh or Soul of Light can't be defined or experienced
    2. Body is an continuous chemical reaction of basic elements.
    3. Body creates and perceives senses.

    Let's see from an another angle.
    We read about things like penance, state of samadhi etc. How this is achieved? Who or what activity starts it? Three words comes into my mind, now. They are Silence, Rest and Death.

    What is the difference between Silence, Rest and Death? Silence and Rest can be activated and deactivated , but if death is activated can it be deactivated ? What is Silence or Rest? We can find it from dictionary. So without worrying about it, let's explore how it is activated? Don't we require a trigger to activate Silence, for eg a teacher in case of a noisy student and your (self) teacher when you start creating unbearable noise (unbearableness is relative and subjective). Can Silence be automatically activated without an influence? If the answer is NO, then WE face two questions. First one is, how the Influence is started. Second being, what collects and acts on the Influence? This is cyclic right

    If the answer is YES, please explain.

    Now back to the original question. How can we do Manasik Bhakti without senses?


    Thanks....



    Last edited by Anirudh; 28 July 2016 at 08:41 PM.
    Anirudh...

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    Re: Mind is the cause for bandhan and moksh !!

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté


    Anirudh,
    I am looking at your post and see it is all in quotes and cannot discern (with confidence) what and which questions you are asking.

    May I ask some slight re-arrangement and suggest perhaps one idea/question to field at a time ? We then will not boil the ocean and be able
    to address your needs and perhaps improve the overall comprehension of the offer for you and for the readers of HDF.

    thank you,


    इतिशिवं
    iti śivaṁ







    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Mind is the cause for bandhan and moksh !!

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté


    Anirudh,
    I am looking at your post and see it is all in quotes and cannot discern (with confidence) what and which questions you are asking.

    May I ask some slight re-arrangement and suggest perhaps one idea/question to field at a time ? We then will not boil the ocean and be able
    to address your needs and perhaps improve the overall comprehension of the offer for you and for the readers of HDF.

    thank you,


    इतिशिवं
    iti śivaṁ








    Namaste Yajvan,

    I have formatted my post. I wanted to answer all the replies made to my post (in one post) as I thought it will be easier to read. I am making series of questions because they are inter related and my reply is more like interactive session. If it doesn't make sense, I shall delete them as I don't have a better way to put it without asking related questions. It's my way of thinking, ie keep asking question and then answer it and make questions on the answer. Finally I get to the bottom when I have no more question to answer.

    Thanks

    PS: Apparently there are many typos in the post. May be that would have made it difficult to read. I will minimize them in future
    Last edited by Anirudh; 28 July 2016 at 08:43 PM.
    Anirudh...

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