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Thread: Plurals in romanized mantra

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    Plurals in romanized mantra

    I was asked and do not know... What is the correct romanized plural of 'mantra'?

    I know the modern convention is just to add an 's' - but is that really right?
    Basically, there is not even one buddha, only great wisdom. Bodhisattva Hsuan Hua

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    Re: Plurals in romanized mantra

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    śubhāśayāḥ¹

    Within saṃskṛtam there are 3 conditions (vacana) singular, dual, and plural. In English there is just singular and plural. And there are many-many rules, cases, and conditions for speaking saṃskṛtam¹.
    But that said with mantra in the masculine nominative case (as there can be feminine and neuter also) it would be mantraḥ ( singular ) , mantrau ( dual or 2 mantra’s) and mantrāḥ ( plural ) for many mantra’s. This all changes depending on the case endings ( 8 are considered).

    Another example:
    śivaḥ ( singular)
    śivau ( dual – 2 śiva’s)
    śivāḥ ( plural – many śiva’s)

    Let’s call out the dative case ( in English, it is the object coming after ‘for’ as 'for the sake of')

    śivāya is used when grammatically using this format ‘ for’ śiva
    śivābhyām is used when grammatically using this format ‘ for’ the 2 śiva’s
    śivebhyaḥ is used when grammatically using this format ‘ for’ all of the śiva’s

    इतिशिवं
    iti śivaṁ


    terms used

    • śubha + āśayāḥ = ( may you have) bright + disposition of mind
    • rules - pāṇini-ji the grammarian (or vyākaraṇin) in his book, aṣṭādhyāyī (‘eight chapters’), along with patañjali’s mahābhāṣya (‘great commentary’) call out all the proper rules and applications for grammar.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Plurals in romanized mantra

    Grateful prostration to you yajvan!
    Basically, there is not even one buddha, only great wisdom. Bodhisattva Hsuan Hua

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    Re: Plurals in romanized mantra

    Sanskrit is surely a difficult language, for dopes like me. Ran across this:

    http://sanskrit.inria.fr/cgi-bin/skt...mantra;g=Neu;r
    Basically, there is not even one buddha, only great wisdom. Bodhisattva Hsuan Hua

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    Re: Plurals in romanized mantra


    Thanks for link. Will be very useful for beginners like us.
    Anirudh...

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    Re: Plurals in romanized mantra

    Namaste,
    Quote Originally Posted by Skull View Post
    Sanskrit is surely a difficult language, for dopes like me. Ran across this:

    http://sanskrit.inria.fr/cgi-bin/skt...mantra;g=Neu;r
    These factors decide what form a word will take in Sanskrit :

    a) Gender : Masculine, Feminine, Neuter. Yes, Sanskrit has Neuter Gender too. Mantra being a non-living entity has been considered as Neuter Gender.
    b) Ending Sound of the word : Depending upon ending sound as a, aa, i, ee, u, oo, the forms will change as per a standard table.
    c) Number : Singular, Dual, Plural
    d) CaSE

    If you know the gender and ending sound of the word then there are standard tables for total 8 Cases and 3 Numbers i.e. 24 in all. Once you memorise those tables, you can predict form of any word as they would follow the same pattern, if they have the same factors affecting its form.

    In this case, the word is Mantra which is a Neuter Gender word with ending sound as "a" and therefore it would follow the standard table of Patra (leaf). If you want the plural of Mantra in nominative case : Patram (Singular), Patre (Dual), PatrANi (Plural). So, the form of Mantra too will be like that and for plural it will be MantrANi.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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    Re: Plurals in romanized mantra

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    śubhāśayāḥ


    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    In this case, the word is Mantra which is a Neuter Gender word with ending sound as "a" and therefore it would follow the standard table of Patra (leaf). If you want the plural of Mantra in nominative case : Patram (Singular), Patre (Dual), PatrANi (Plural). So, the form of Mantra too will be like that and for plural it will be MantrANi.

    OM
    Yes, I see your point when mantra is considered neuter gender.... yet if one uses the Monier Williams Sanskrit-English Disctionary ( 2008 version) they offer mantra as masculine¹ gender; I use them most often ( 99.9%) of the time. Their entry says 'rarely neuter' ; they also offer feminine gender and we know this will end with mantrā.

    Yet I see how the declination you offer makes sense.

    इतिशिवं
    iti śivaṁ


    1. masculine (पुंलिङ्ग puṃliṅga), feminine (स्त्रीलिङ्ग strīliṅga), and neuter (नपुंसकलिङ्ग napuṃsakaliṅga)
    Last edited by yajvan; 04 September 2016 at 11:12 AM. Reason: corrected spelling
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Plurals in romanized mantra

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~
    namasté


    śubhāśayāḥ

    I thought to add one more notion , only because it is delightful to talk about. It is the notion of this dual idea...
    I wrote the following in my post above:
    śivaḥ ( singular)
    śivau ( dual – 2 śiva’s)
    śivāḥ ( plural – many śiva’s)
    Note the term śivau ( dual – 2 śiva’s). There is another use for this ‘dual’ or dvi. The grammatical ending ‘au’ forms this duality or 2. Let me show one by example , and then the insight.

    If I say rāmaśca kṛṣṇaśca is it like saying ( in English) rāma & kṛṣṇa . Some may prefer to do it this way: kṛṣṇaḥ ca rāmaḥ - but when I combine ‘ca’ to kṛṣṇaḥ and use the proper grammatical rules it becomes kṛṣṇaśca rāmaḥ.
    Yet I can use the ‘dvandva’ combination form and write it like so: rāmakṛṣṇau – note the au. We still can see the two components within the term (rāma & kṛṣṇa) and we give this ‘dvandva’ ( ‘combination’) the itaretara ( ‘one with another’) sub-category name.

    So, now we can proceed to more a spiritual influence using ‘dvi’ or dual + the dvandva approach + another category called samāsa (union, aggregation , conjunction , combination) category.

    I can say śiva and śakti ( that is, in English).... yet I can apply dvanda samāsa and say śivau. This śivau is the aggregation/union of śiva and śakti (śakti śivau). This is a spiritual orientation within śaivism. By saying śivau you have automatically included śakti. That is, with this dvanda samāsa union the resulting term forms something bigger then each individual term.
    This is how the wise can speak to all different levels of consciousness in one breath. On one level the listener hears ‘oh there are two śiva’s that he is talking about’ and for another śivau is saying śiva and śakti, the whole\aggregate of them.

    This notion is found in the spanda-sandhoha ( the ~milking~ of the spanda kārikā-s) where the author uses the term unmeṣau. In one word he is saying unmeśca nimeṣaca ( the opening and closing of the eyes) is unmeṣcanimeṣau = unmeṣau. In this case he is talking of the Supreme ( paramaśiva’s) expansion and contraction that goes on simultaneously and it is communicated with one term unmeṣau.

    इतिशिवं
    iti śivaṁ



    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Plurals in romanized mantra

    Namaste Yajvan,
    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    śubhāśayāḥ



    Yes, I see your point when mantra is considered neuter gender.... yet if one uses the Monier Williams Sanskrit-English Disctionary ( 2008 version) they offer mantra as masculine¹ gender; I use them most often ( 99.9%) of the time. Their entry says 'rarely neuter' ; they also offer feminine gender and we know this will end with mantrā.

    Yet I see how the declination you offer makes sense.

    इतिशिवं
    iti śivaṁ


    1. masculine (पुल्लिङ्ग pulliṅga), feminine (स्त्रीलिङ्ग strīliṅga), and neuter (नपुंसकलिङ्ग napuṃsakaliṅga)
    I agree. Some of the words are used by some authors as Masculine/feminine and some as Neuter. The more you picturise/romanticise an object as living and humane, the more you like to refer to them as humans and not as non-living things.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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    Re: Plurals in romanized mantra

    Namaste

    Slightly off the topic

    From time to time we discuss about the difficulties in learning, understanding Sanskrit in one form or other. We all know it is not easy to learn leave alone mastering it because of the well known limitation. The connecting string between all of our inabilities is in one way or other we all want to understand Sanskrit just like we read a news paper. This is my gut feeling

    Can anyone with a moderator privilege start a sticky poll post to know how many in this forum actually want to learn Sanskrit? Here we don't need masses to follow, just about a hand full of new interested learners can make a beginning.

    I am active in this forum for the past 4 years, ie close to be 200 weeks. Cut 1 year towards lull period. Remaining is 150 week. Upon reflecting, I feel if I had learned to write one sentence (or one post in Sanskrit) per week, today I would have gained a better knowledge on Sanskrit.
    Anirudh...

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