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Thread: Right to live - Restricted only to blessed?

  1. #1
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    Right to live - Restricted only to blessed?

    Namaste

    What is the difference between the soul/atma/life residing (although temporarily) in Human being and non Human being?

    We have discussed on the process and timing of life entering womb to judge abortion against issues like rape and probable danger to mother and child in case of infection etc. There are various interpretation of scriptures but every one will agree that life is born because of the Karmic cycle.

    Every day lakhs of animals are killed or permanently injured purely for the purpose of human gratification (garments, food, medicine, fashion & grooming). I started practicing vegetarianism only few years ago, so I don't have the moral right to preach. But tell me one thing, by killing a animal to satisfy my tastes buds (not necessarily my tongue alone) am I not stopping their right to live? One may argue, if every one choose vegetarianism there won't be enough vegetarian food left in the world. I think it is a shallow argument because a cattle or a bird or a fish before it is healthy enough to be sold would have consumed a lot of vegetarian products.

    Most important point is that they don't even harm us.

    What's our reaction when a wild animal enter into our living area. Forget about python, lion, elephant etc, what is first our reaction when we see mosquitoes, bed bugs, cockroaches, rodents etc in our living area? We don't think twice before killing it. In a isolated incidents we shall do the same thing with bigger and powerful animals. Why? Self protection? Right?

    It is said only Humans have powerful faculty called mind and hope every one has the ability to experience the animal's reaction upon seeing a invading hand into its living area also called as forest, river, ocean and sky?

    So, back to my question. Right to live - Restricted only to blessed?

    Members may feel this thread should have been posted under Vegetarianism sub forum, but, I am viewing it from a different plane....

    PS: It is not clear to me how an animal in the current birth can elevate to the higher plane in the successive births.
    Anirudh...

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    Re: Right to live - Restricted only to blessed?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anirudh View Post
    Namaste

    What's our reaction when a wild animal enter into our living area. Forget about python, lion, elephant etc, what is first our reaction when we see mosquitoes, bed bugs, cockroaches, rodents etc in our living area? We don't think twice before killing it. In a isolated incidents we shall do the same thing with bigger and powerful animals. Why? Self protection? Right?
    Namaste

    Consider that non-injury, non-harm, ahimsā applies to us also. If there is an invasion of squirrels, mice, raccoons in one's house, as I experienced, I think one should do whatever possible to remove them without harming them. I tried trapping and releasing them far away, but that didn't work very well. I called a professional wildlife remover. In my state they are legally obligated to not euthanize animals unless they are clearly sick and pose a danger. One raccoon trapped in my attic was in such a condition, very sickly but putting up a fight. The contractor could not capture it, and it was clear it would not survive in the wild if he did catch-and-release, so he euthanized it (dart gun with a lethal dose of sedative). In that case it would have done more harm to the animal to try to release it into the wild. For the mice I dumped the contents of my cat's litter box outdoors where I thought the mice where getting in. No more mice, no mouse-killing. The squirrels were also trapped and released.

    As for insects, consider that they carry pathogens that can be harmful to humans and domestic animals. I will say bluntly that I will not put up with cockroaches or other insects running around in the kitchen where I prepare food, or where my dogs and cat eat. Fortunately I haven't had to deal with that. Btw, when wildlife invades your home, the droppings they leave are also a danger to humans and domestic animals. Their scents also attract other species, hence my three-fold invasion. Some spiders, and wasps and hornets can also be dangerous. For the typical homeowner removal of a hornets' nest or colony of spiders could pose a danger, and is best left to a professional. Yes, their removal method of choice is pesticides (which nowadays are usually repellents and don't actually kill the vermin).

    I know others may disagree with me, but you have to weigh the risks. In the interest of my family's safety, which I have an obligation to ensure, I will risk the karmic effect. "You pays your money and you takes your chances", as the saying goes.
    śivasya hridayam viṣṇur viṣṇoscha hridayam śivaḥ

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    Re: Right to live - Restricted only to blessed?

    Namaste

    I often think about why must animals all over the world suffer like they do … what have all these souls done - where do they come from - where do they go … there is no answer … even not in Indian scriptures, where I generally find answers for everything.

    I am vegetarian I do not want to be a part of the killing, more I cannot do for myself. But from the cosmic fiew I am sure it is right as it is.

    I wonder why so many of the characters in the epics go for hunting. In my country we are told this is a symbolic meaning for the animalistic nature which has to be defeated. I can accept this.

    Until now I did not find any hint in any ancient Indian scripture that tells me not to eat meat but on the contrary – read about Kaushika:

    ... 'Sir! Who are you? What do you know about virtue? I think you are the only person in the whole world who knows the complete meaning of the word. Please teach it to me!'
    The butcher smiled. 'Every person who does his duty and does it cheerfully with his whole heart leads a virtuous life....'
    Kaushika frowned. 'Sir you are a butcher! How can you....'
    The butcher smiled. 'It is my profession. My parents before me and their parents have all been butchers. I am just doing my family profession. There is no shame in it. I do it as my duty. My parents, my wife and my children....They are my life and I do everything that I can do to keep them happy. I do everything for them.....'

    http://hindumythologyforgennext.blog...cher_4809.html

    And a totally different story

    http://keralamythology.blogspot.de/2014/01/pakkanar-and-legend-behind-ivy-gourd.html

    In Periya Purana not only Kannappa Nayanar is a hunter but it is one of the cruelest stories and it is called poetry ... start reading verse 724. This is no hunt for satisfying hunger …
    http://shaivam.org/english/sen_th12_kannappa.htm

    Pranam
    Dance with Shiva - live with Shiva - merge with Shiva

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    Re: Right to live - Restricted only to blessed?

    Namaste,

    Such questions are very perplexing, to say the least.

    Many, many things are done out of necessity. Warmer climates attract termites and the houses have to be periodically fumigated to rid them of all the termites. Humid areas have many flying insects which will kill you with their bites; so, they have to be dealt with. The Eskimos don't have any agricultural land. They depend on others sending them grains and vegetables during summers. For winters, they catch big fish, slice it into chunks and survive by munching on thin slices cut from blocks. In US, the Govt. will fine/jail you for harming a pet but bigger animals are labeled as 'livestock' and it is acceptable to kill them for food. In India, we use a battery operated Chinese made net like gadget to zap mosquitoes which can give you Dengue or Zika or other horrible diseases. So, killing is part of life and the great kings of our historical scriptures all hunted. In today's world, even humans are being slaughtered on a daily basis by bombs or other means. So, the non-ahamsic behavior seems to be part of the bigger picture which I can't see. Food, fear and desire to have everyone conform to a certain religion are causing much distress, both to animals and to humans.

    Pranam.

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    Re: Right to live - Restricted only to blessed?

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    from post 1,
    What is the difference between the soul/atma/life residing (although temporarily) in Human being and non Human being?
    This struck me in a funny way ( not suggesting humorous) – it just resonated in my head as being obtuse (only to me) – that is, I do not think in this manner.

    It is not this ātman exists in the body ( in the city of eight¹) ; it is, we reside in it.
    This is the profound insight of the 12th verse , 7th chapter of the bhāgavadgītā where kṛṣṇaḥ -jī informs us,
    I am not in them ( natvahaṁ teṣu) they are in me (te mayi) ||

    Within trika śāstra or non-dual kaśmir śaivism this notion of the bhāgavad gītā is represented by the term sarvasarvātmakam̐ - everything and all (sarvasarva note ‘sarva’ repeated twice), or wholly and completely is ātmaka (ātmaka is defined as ‘consisting of the nature’) = paramaśivaḥ


    इतिशिवं
    iti śivaṁ


    1. the city of 8 :

    • It is this tanmātragocaraḥ or the field of the tanmātra-s ( made up of 5) + 3 more i.e. buddhi, ahaṁkāra , and manas which = 8 , or puryaṣṭaka, the 8 parts/components. This city of 8 is part of the human condition, that becomes conditioned.
    • Relating this city of 8 to the bhāgavad gītā verse, it is = to the 3 guna-s.

    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Right to live - Restricted only to blessed?

    Namaste

    Thanks for all of your replies. I agree with most of the views shared here that focus on the safety measures. I wish to discuss on the other points raised, unfortunately I am not able to spend time due to unexpected turn of events. Thanks to Sriman Naaraayan things are calming down.
    Anirudh...

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    Re: Right to live - Restricted only to blessed?

    To answer every thing and any thing by rational thinking is beyond capacity of mind and intellect !

    Even there is no fixed written rule for birth and death for a soul and when a soul enters to a body

    conceived in mother"s womb .

    There are exceptions keeps coming with adventure of scientific research. Who have ever imagined

    about stem cell based growth of new animals,where even a male sperm is not required at all? If legal
    hurdles will be removed by govt,this is possible to create a human just from A DNA from any tissue of
    a human,be it male or female,No sperm or no eggs required, still we can have a human baby.

    So from where this soul comes from? Scripture says human souls comes to father"s body through food,

    transmitted through sperm into egg of mother.

    So is there a new soul get created by the process ? or a new subtle body gets created?

    Lots of unanswerable questions,whats the solution?

    Follow the Bhagabat Gita, who asks us to introspect and decide what is shreya and what is preya.

    and follow the pathof SHREYA !!! Its not the action,but the intention what matters !!!
    Man-naathah Shri Jagan-nathah Mat-guru-shri jagad-guruhu.
    Mad-atma sarva-bhutatma tasmai Shri Gurave Namah.


    My Lord is the Lord of Universe; My teacher is the teacher of the
    entire universe; and my Self is the Self of all. My salutations at the lotus-feet
    of such a Guru, who has revealed such knowledge to me.

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