Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 16

Thread: Viraja's 101

  1. #1
    Join Date
    July 2012
    Age
    52
    Posts
    2,088
    Rep Power
    2640

    Viraja's 101

    Namaste,

    This is by far a small collection of thoughts, that I have gleaned over the years browsing around the net on various spirituality articles, pertaining to Hindu way of spiritual thinking.

    I am bringing this to your perusal, so if you have any thoughts, corrections, or further interesting points to explore along these lines, you can contribute them in this thread.

    Hope you will find these interesting!

    1. Truly supreme gods value 'you' as a person, more than they value your devotion to him/her!


    2. Truly supreme gods do not retaliate for an offense made against them. The offense may be intentional or unintentional.


    3. Bhakti yoga is supposed to be the supreme path to god, of all types of yogas. Thus, Nama Sankeerthana, or continuous recitation of god's name, is more potent than yogic meditation.


    4. When you pray sincerely to one form of supreme god, he/she will point you to the right direction (god) for directing your prayers at, for your materialistic pursuits. (This is specifically said of so-called 'Ishta Devata' in Jyotish).


    5. The whole body with all its nadis and the 7 chakras, simulate in miniature the 14 lokas (7 underworlds and 7 upperworlds). Divine energy permeates all through them.


    6. Many gods, as opposed to the popular belief, are capable of offering 'mukthi'. The only difference might be in the type of mukthi they offer - such as Sayujya, salokha, etc.


    7. Shiva/Vishnu are 2 different but equal forces - Vishnu is described as a 'dormant energy' that permeates everywhere, Shiva is described as the 'active force' that makes even an atom tick. (From a facebook scholar's research). This is the principle behind Lord Vishnu's assuming of female form when wandering with Lord Shiva in the forests and their parenting of Lord Aiyappa! Because forcefulness is masculine and energy that permeates everywhere is neutral (can be both masculine and feminine).


    8. God is essentially the 'purusha'. When merged in light, all of us signify the same unified essence. This is god, the purusha. But in manifest world, the various diverse aspects of the divine, in the form of all living things, signify the 'prakriti' or the split 'nature'. Prakriti is essentially the feminine spirit. This is the reason why some male gods have more than 1 wife - to show the relationship between many 'Prakriti' and the one 'Purusha'.


    9. The only single effort that forms the fundamental of all forms of penance (tapas) is 'silence'. Yes, it is the silence in essence, when we try to quieten every atom or every thought, and make it inactive.

    Thank you,

    Viraja
    Last edited by Viraja; 19 October 2016 at 04:24 PM.
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Age
    54
    Posts
    750
    Rep Power
    1525

    Re: Viraja's 101

    Hari Om!

    Viraja Ji,

    This post is well written, the points are well taken, and are potent reminders. Thank-you.

    The one exception I take is the assertion that bhakti yoga is supreme (you have labeled it safely as "supposed to be".) Have always been told that Raja yog is superior because it contains all of the yogas. Might you agree?

    Please comment and dispel my limited knowledge.

    Om

  3. #3
    Join Date
    July 2012
    Age
    52
    Posts
    2,088
    Rep Power
    2640

    Re: Viraja's 101

    Namaste C.Smith,

    I wrote that point after reading this message here: http://yoga108.org/pages/show/51-bha...a-introduction.

    Please pay attention to the monkey/cat analogy.

    I am also looking forward to scholar's views on all points I stated above.

    Thanks,

    Viraja
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

  4. #4
    Join Date
    October 2012
    Location
    Bhaarath
    Age
    51
    Posts
    1,113
    Rep Power
    1502

    Re: Viraja's 101

    Namaste Viraja,

    1. Truly supreme gods value 'you' as a person, more than they value your devotion to him/her!
    2. Truly supreme gods do not retaliate for an offense made against them. The offense may be intentional or unintentional.
    I assume the above two statements have scriptural references to support, can you provide if my assumptions are correct?
    I am NOT good in English, so when you word it as 'supreme gods' (assuming in gods the 's' stands for plural form), are there multiple supreme gods? Can that be possible?

    Since we all believe God reside in all of us, and if I make offense against an another person, will the God keep quite?

    My understanding of Hinduism differ with the above two. Hope you will throw light on the above two statements.

    Thanks in advance.
    Anirudh...

  5. #5
    Join Date
    July 2012
    Age
    52
    Posts
    2,088
    Rep Power
    2640

    Re: Viraja's 101

    Namaste Anirudh,

    Sri Adi Sankara gave Hindus the 'Panchayathana puja'. This would not be possible, if there aren't multiple supreme gods. If your understanding is different from this, and you want to assert it is impossible for there to be multiple supreme gods, you need to provide your reasons for that.

    (As a SriVaishnava, I believe there is only 1 paramatma, but that does not delude me into thinking and believing other gods cannot be powerful too.)

    As stated in OP, I am looking for clarifications on what I read and experienced so far.

    As per Hindu view, god(s) will forgive if we intentionally or unintentionally denigrate them directly, but will not forgive the offense extended to their devotees or fellow humans. This idea is the fundamental principle behind many kshetras (pilgrimage spots) in India, be it Kala Samhara Moorthy story or Pandurang mahatmya as described in 'Maha Bhakta Vijayam' by LIFCO. I hope this answers your question part 2.

    If your understanding on the 2 quoted statements are different, as I have requested in the OP, you are free to discuss them here.

    (I find it funny every time I post any topic, you come sounding a bit confrontational, all the time!! If it is just me, then pl. ignore this).

    PS: I find it surprising no one seems interested in points 7 and 8! My intention behind posting this very thread is to 'stimulate' thoughts, so it can be an enriching give-an-take of sorts for all participants, and never intended to dictate anything!

    Thanks,

    Viraja
    Last edited by Viraja; 20 October 2016 at 02:35 PM.
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

  6. #6
    Join Date
    July 2012
    Age
    52
    Posts
    2,088
    Rep Power
    2640

    Re: Viraja's 101

    Namaste,

    In continuation to my previous reply, I thought of adding these instances.

    Sri Rama, a perfected being of 16 different virtues, valued his baktha's qualities more than their devotion. This is the reason why it is said in the Badrachalam Ramadasa story, why Sri Rama let his greatest devotee suffer for long in the prison before relieving him from the clutches of imprisonment eventually.

    Also, I beg the readers to forgive me of the error of forgetting the name of the devotee - it is another Rama devotee in the great 'Baktha Vijayam' story who prays for eternity to get the darshan of Rama. Rama does not want to bless this to this particular devotee and finally due to the devotee's persistence, Sri Rama appears in the form of a buffalo at the said time. The devotee and his people do not recognize Rama and chase the buffalo away. Sri Ramachandra takes this as the devotees unprepared state to have his darshan and never gives the devotee a second chance. If I am successful finding that book which I think I may have lost, I will definitely look it up for the devotee's name.

    These 2 instances prove that the Lord god value people for who they are than their devotion to him/her.

    This may be a very simple thread for the well-learnt scholars of this forum, but nevertheless can be useful for interrogation and finding some interesting info, given scholars can provide their valuable corrections and clarifications.

    Thanks.
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

  7. #7
    Join Date
    July 2012
    Age
    52
    Posts
    2,088
    Rep Power
    2640

    Re: Viraja's 101

    (A quick update: I just heard from a company and I will be taking a technically intense interview in a few days time. Therefore, I will look into further posts here upon my interview completion. )
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

  8. #8
    Join Date
    October 2012
    Location
    Bhaarath
    Age
    51
    Posts
    1,113
    Rep Power
    1502

    Re: Viraja's 101

    Namaste Viraja,

    (I find it funny every time I post any topic, you come sounding a bit confrontational, all the time!!
    Not at all. If you have observed my posts, I do the same with all members, if I find the post difficult to comprehend.

    Sri Adi Sankara gave Hindus the 'Panchayathana puja'.
    Sri Sankaracharya advocated non duality. I have got a simple question, if there is no duality, how can we differentiate? Let's leave non duality as well as Vaishnavism, even then, it is not clear why we must assume multiple Gods having equal powers (because we use the word supreme). For eg, What Sri Shani is capable of other devata's can not, at the same time, Sri Shani too has limitations. Say for eg, Sri Aanjaneya is immune to Sri Shani.

    So my argument is either there can only be Gods (not multiple supreme Gods) without ranking or if there is a ranking it should be hierarchical.

    I find it surprising no one seems interested in points 7 and 8! My intention behind posting this very thread is to 'stimulate' thoughts, so it can be an enriching give-an-take of sorts for all participants, and never intended to dictate anything!
    Again, I assure you, don't want to create a difference of opinion or unnecessary rift. My p.o.v is different traditions should not be projected as contradictory to each other in a non hierarchical (I am not clear if such a thing exist) world. If we are not clear with basics, misunderstanding lead to myths like one god fighting the other, which actually makes Hinduism to look like a Saas Bahu (in laws) serials. Another point is if we consider the cycle of Karma as truth, then, every action has equal and opposite reaction. In that case, how can God wont do the course correction?

    Last but not the least, please don't get offended with my questions.

    (A quick update: I just heard from a company and I will be taking a technically intense interview in a few days time. Therefore, I will look into further posts here upon my interview completion. )
    Best of luck
    Anirudh...

  9. #9
    Join Date
    December 2007
    Age
    63
    Posts
    3,218
    Rep Power
    4728

    Re: Viraja's 101

    Namaste Viraja,

    Before I comment on your post, please forgive me if my thoughts are out of sync with yours because I am non-dualist. Moreover, my writing is not to find faults as I have no authority to do so and it is just an exercise of sharing our thoughts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Viraja View Post
    1. Truly supreme gods value 'you' as a person, more than they value your devotion to him/her!

    There is some misunderstanding here, Viraja ! Supreme God cannot be more than one even by definition. How can we have two supreme entities ? If there is more than one "supreme" then it simply means that both are the same.

    This confusion arises because of the PurANas. If you read Vaishnava PurANa then Vishnu would be depicted as the supreme whereas if you read Shiva PurANa, Shiva would be depicted as the supreme. In fact, if you read Devi Bhagwad purANa, Adi Shakti (called with whatever names as Durga etc.) is considered the supreme. To be honest, it is not limited to only the PurAnas but even in the Vedas and that sometimes confuses us. However, my study of Vedas/Upanishads/Bhagwad Gita/PurANas tells me that God is One alone but is perceived in various forms by different devotees. Rig Veda tells us : "Ekam Sad Vipra bahudhA vadanti". Lord Krishna says in Bahgawd Gita chapter 13 : "Though undivided That (Supreme) appears as divided among the living entities. That is to be known. That alone is the Creator (BrahmA), the nourisher/sustainer (Vishnu) and the Destroyer (Shiva)." Remember that this shloka has been said in continuation of various other shlokas in the praise of Brahman (Verse 13 of Chapter 13) which has been stated to be neither Sat (Being) nor Asat (non-being). Please refer to Shlokas 13 to 18 of Chapter 13 of Bhagwad Gita. If you read Upanishads, they Talking of just One AtmAn, One Brahman and One God. MAndukya Upanishad says, "AUM is Brahman. This all is Brahman. This AtmAn is Brahman and this Atman has four parts (aspects/states)". This Upanishad tells us that Brahman in its third state is God, the master of the first two states (the Gross and subtle worlds). Katha Upanishad tells us that AUM (AtmAn) is supreme and that is to be known. SvetAsvatar Upanishad tells us that Rudra is One alone God who is the supreme and it is He who creates, nourishes and destroys. Shri Tulsidas said it the best : "Jaaki rahi bhaavanaa jasi, prabhu moorat dekhi tin taisi". (Everyone perceived God as per his own thinking). Mudgala Upanishad tells us, "He became as He was worshiped".

    2. Truly supreme gods do not retaliate for an offense made against them. The offense may be intentional or unintentional.
    God, if He / She can be offended by our deeds, cannot be God in its Real state. Lord Krishna says in Bahgawd Gita, "No one is dear to me and I despise non one)". In PaurANic stories, stories of God getting angry is narrated.. In fact, in Bhagwad Gita or Vedic stories too, the instances of God getting angry has been stated but that is all figuratively told. Lord Krishna says, "The one who sees saints and the sinners with equanimity is the best". How can God who advises this for others, can have another rule for Himself. What actually happens that when one does something to displease God, actually one does some bad Karma and that gives one bad result as per Laws of nature and we figuratively say that God has become angry and has punished the person.

    3. Bhakti yoga is supposed to be the supreme path to god, of all types of yogas. Thus, Nama Sankeerthana, or continuous recitation of god's name, is more potent than yogic meditation.
    Bhakti Yoga is the best path for the Bhaktas but not for the JnAna yogis. It is futile to discuss this issue as the definition of what is best changes from person to person. A seeker chooses the path as per his status in spirituality. In Bhagwad Gita, Lord Krishna says, "I love the JnAni Bhakta the most. Jnani who considers that "this all is VAsudeva" alone is rare."

    4. When you pray sincerely to one form of supreme god, he/she will point you to the right direction (god) for directing your prayers at, for your materialistic pursuits. (This is specifically said of so-called 'Ishta Devata' in Jyotish).
    God itself is all gods. God acts in two dimensions of Reality. In one dimension He alone exists and in the other he exists as many forms and names for the fulfilling of needs of the bhaktas. So, if you pray to any form as God, He is fully powerful to grant all your wishes if you so deserve or if he grants his grace.

    5. The whole body with all its nadis and the 7 chakras, simulate in miniature the 14 lokas (7 underworlds and 7 upperworlds). Divine energy permeates all through them.
    Yes.

    6. Many gods, as opposed to the popular belief, are capable of offering 'mukthi'. The only difference might be in the type of mukthi they offer - such as Sayujya, salokha, etc.
    True. This is because of Bhaava (feeling) with which God is worshiped in various forms.

    7. Shiva/Vishnu are 2 different but equal forces - Vishnu is described as a 'dormant energy' that permeates everywhere, Shiva is described as the 'active force' that makes even an atom tick. (From a facebook scholar's research). This is the principle behind Lord Vishnu's assuming of female form when wandering with Lord Shiva in the forests and their parenting of Lord Aiyappa! Because forcefulness is masculine and energy that permeates everywhere is neutral (can be both masculine and feminine).
    That who is Shiva, He alone is Vishnu. In PaurANic stories they sometimes act with limited powers and with superimposed characteristics. These role splayed by God either alone or in multitude of forms/names arises to satisfy the bhaava of the bhakta. These all stories are in relative planes of existence. That is why the Devalokla is not considered eternal.

    8. God is essentially the 'purusha'. When merged in light, all of us signify the same unified essence. This is god, the purusha. But in manifest world, the various diverse aspects of the divine, in the form of all living things, signify the 'prakriti' or the split 'nature'. Prakriti is essentially the feminine spirit. This is the reason why some male gods have more than 1 wife - to show the relationship between many 'Prakriti' and the one 'Purusha'.
    Prakriti is considered feminine because only Prakriti can create. Prakriti is God's power of creation. This Prakriti is also called MAyA or YogamAyA. Lord Krishna says that Prakariti has eight parts -- five mahabhootas, Mann (observing mind), Buddhi (Discriminative mind or the intellect) and Ahamkaar (the "i" feeling in the beings). This Prakriti is Paraa nature of God and is the mother of all beings. God puts the seed (as Father does) within this Prakriti to create the beings. What is this seed ? This is God alone in the heart of all beings. This seed and the God too is the Purusha. Seed and God are not different ... but that may lead us to some other discussion and derail the topic.

    9. The only single effort that forms the fundamental of all forms of penance (tapas) is 'silence'. Yes, it is the silence in essence, when we try to quieten every atom or every thought, and make it inactive.
    Agree. This silence silences all our tendencies. However, it should not be misunderstood as silence of words alone. Silence of all activities is the supreme state of God i.e. Turiya state.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

  10. #10
    Join Date
    July 2012
    Age
    52
    Posts
    2,088
    Rep Power
    2640

    Re: Viraja's 101

    Namaste, Anirudh ji and Devotee ji,

    Its a pleasure to read your answers.

    I will read them at length and reply in a couple days time (past Monday).

    Greetings,

    Viraja
    jai hanuman gyan gun sagar jai kapis tihu lok ujagar

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •