getting the whole story

[yajvan]

hariḥ om̐
~~~~~~

namasté & hello

Most-to-many people I have met over the years that say they are practicing hinduism (sanātana dharma some call ārṣa dharma¹) are in fact taking most of their precepts, practices, and clues from two main schools: yoga darśana and vedānta darśana (from the 6 ~ classical~ schools¹) that are known. They are co-mingled in such a way to form a practice or idea of what hinduism is to them. There is no harm to this, but one should know that this co-mingling is occurring. It also suggests ( to me) that not knowing the depth and breadth of both schools , one really does not know what they are picking and what they’re leaving behind. As I have mentioned many times here on HDF, if you do not know where you are going, then any road will take you there. So, within these two schools what are some sailent points that may have been dropped or not viewed in the proper light? Let me offer a few from my point of view... others may vary.

Vedāntic teaching
Many to most have heard of the upaniṣads, and bhagavadgītā , yet are not all are familiar with the vedānta sūtras ( also called the brahma sūtras). These 3 are considered prasthānatrayī¹ or pertaining to the 3 systems some say ‘institutes’ of vedāntic teaching. I cannot tell you just how robust & fulfilling (to me) this knowledge is overall. Yet for many, they do not get around to it, tried it and found it difficult to read, found the amount of reading as insurmountable, or for some just do not find reading/study as something that fits their style. So be it.
Yet, there was a luminary, ādi śaṅkara-ji¹ also known as śaṅkara bhagavatpāda, that not only commented on prasthānatrayī but was kind enough to take the essence of his commentaries and offer it into the work called vivekacūḍāmaṇi ( this term = the crown jewel of discrimination). Not many read this, but I mention it as a compendium¹ of vedāntic thought i.e. the essence of his commentaries on vedāntic scriptures in one place, in succinct format. His offer of 571 verses (śloka-s) on those key points that one has to grasp for the eradication of ignorance , and from my point of view is the principle intent of sanātana dharma.

Many know of ādi śaṅkara-ji and think, oh yes, he has informed us of māyā; that the world is an illusion. Many who enter ~hinduism~ come to know this as a major concept (along with karma). Yet this is only ½ of the knowledge that was heard by those listening. Ādi śaṅkara-ji offers:
· brahman is real
· the universe is māyā , an illusion
· brahman is the universe

Ādi śaṅkara-ji did not stop at the second point, but many did not continue to listen. The point is, many think the universe is apart from brahman and that would be an incorrect view ( within the non dual, advaitin school of reality). To understand what one practices a more complete view is suggested and ādi śaṅkara-ji’s vivekacūḍāmaṇi is a great source. Here is just one śloka from ādi śaṅkara-ji’s vivekacūḍāmaṇi :
Not by missiles nor weapons nor wind nor fire nor even millions of prescribed actions (ca karma-koṭibhiḥ) can this bondage be destroyed; by nothing except the great, sharp, beautiful sword of wisdom (vijñāna) which comes from discrimination (viveka) given by the grace (prasāda) of the Supreme .

Yogadarśana ( school of yoga)
... lets consider in the next post.

इतिशिवं
iti śivaṁ

terms

• ārṣa dharma = the dharma of the seers or ṛṣi-s ( rishi’s)

The 6 darśana-s (schools)
· sāṁkhya
· yoga
· vedānta
· mīmāṃsā
· nyāya
· vaiśeṣika

• ​prasthānatrayī - more can be found here : http://hindudharmaforums.com/showthr...ome-foundation
  

• Ādi Śaṅkara we know as Śaṅkara Bhagavatpāda

· ādi = first, beginning
· Śaṅkara = śaṃkara = causing prosperity , auspicious , beneficent. This is another name for śiva or rudra.
· Bhagavatpāda = Bhagavat+pāda bhagavat is glorious , illustrious , divine + pāda or pādāḥ is added to proper names or titles in token of respect.
With this case pāda it is then a ray or beam of light (considered as the foot of a heavenly body). Yet what is this 1st or beginning? He was the first Śaṅkarācārya, as he set up the maţha-s (some write as mutt's, math's) across India. Why so ? To preserve and perpetuate knowledge of the Supreme. There are 4 +1 maţha-s. Some think more, some stick to 4 ( north, South, East and West). The +1 that I recognize is kanchipuram - Tamil Nadu.

• Śaṅkarācārya is roughly = to ~ pontiff~ .
• compendium - a collection of concise but detailed information about a particular subject

[Anirudh]

Namaste Yajvan,

A very nice post to highlight subtle misconceptions and ignorance(s), although towards the end tilted towards non duality. Won't question the intent, nevertheless, this will help newcomers who want to see a bigger picture and branch out according to the pull.

[devotee]

Namaste Yajvan ji,

Ādi śaṅkara-ji offers:
· brahman is real
· the universe is māyā , an illusion
· brahman is the universe

Ādi śaṅkara-ji did not stop at the second point, but many did not continue to listen. The point is, many think the universe is apart from brahman and that would be an incorrect view ( within the non dual, advaitin school of reality).

Exactly ! This is what people forget ! Thanks for highlighting it in this post !

OM

[markandeya 108 dasa]

Namaste,

I have hopes for this thread, as the middle portion (the universe is māyā , an illusion ) is way misunderstood in this day and age, maybe for a few hundred years in some traditions in India too.

I see Advaita simple explained as reality is One. The material nature cannot come from a separate source, its part of One Absolute reality, but this manifested cosmos is moving and subject to change based on arising conditions which spirals, grows, subtracts into other infinite dimension or dimensions with unlimited diversity and the duality of opposites need each other for further expansion, growth and change.

Beyond or behind all of this is something that is Whole and complete ( and fully Conscious) without change or duality in its nature or identity, which is conscious, or has Supreme Consciousness and is considered as Superior to this reality of changes based on conditions, which again is not separate from the material nature or cosmos, its just something that does not change, its free from the conditions of duality which causes change, but its not abstract or aloof, it just has a deeper essence, more whole more complete Absolute~ Advaita~ Complete, from that Complete realization there is no realization Brahmanda came from a secondary source, the reality we should be seeking to start off is that which is Conscious, that as far as I understand is the reality in which we seek as Sadhakas, but we seek in the wrong places as conditioned Jivas due to Avidya which is to ignore the whole, in that place which is whole, unobscured, in that we finally rest, in that we finally understand everything.

Ultimately words cant understand this as we have still conditions in our mind that see's the object as something outside or seperate of that One reality which is Absolute and fully conscious in all aspects. What I can observe as of now is that the only misunderstanding that has come about is that the Dharmic traditions have lost the age old ability to communicate with other. I do hope that this thread sticks to the same topic before going into Kashmir Shaivism as superior knowledge to quickly, as most cant make that jump yet before Advaita of Adi Shankara has been fully explained properly, espcially the understanding of this material nature as just an illusion, its actually quite dangerous to think this world is only an illusion and something seperate from the Absolute whole, and I dont see that as Adi Shankaras siddhanta.

I dont see Advaita of Adi Shankara as lacking anything, nor any of the diverse Dharma traditions, as the essence is when Mind and Avidya have been dealt with withSadhana & Upaya, or the spirtual practice with awareness or skillful means, that then gives that person the direct experience of these transcendent subjects, which again is only situated in consciousness, if some other philosophies or traditions claim any type of superiority then its false premise and the essence has been lost, the essence being that all Dharma traditions say taht it can only be understood through purified consciousnes, the direct experience of the Absolute reality is when Mind is purified and Avidya has been removed, this is the only thing which will satisfie us and one then see's Truth by superior consciousness itself, no need for philosophy.

Please excuse my writing and expression skills, I dont mean to add any confusion

Pranam

[yajvan]

hariḥ om̐
~~~~~~
namasté & hello

Namaste,
I have hopes for this thread, as the middle portion (the universe is māyā , an illusion ) is way misunderstood in this day and age, maybe for a few hundred years in some traditions in India too.
Pranam

Perhaps we should stay on this idea before moving to the yogadarśana ( school of yoga) conversation... perhaps there can be some value added to the reader.
I will add a few notions I have learned and observed, and welcome all others' inputs and ideas.

इतिशिवं
iti śivaṁ

[markandeya 108 dasa]

Namaste,

I think it would be helpful, as this that part of the teaching is very misunderstood, I do not want to go to much into how falsly it has been portrayed because the true meaning and explanation should be enough for clarity. Neti neti say for example is not exactly negative, for example I read a while ago , in a certain contex that neti neti was not just negative and dismissive of external phenomena, which includes Mind, but also allows for new things to arise in a fresh way, I translated this partially to point to non attachment rather than rejection, and this part of Adi Shankara's teaching that Maya as just an illusion and only fit for rejectuion has not been well described in languages and context outside of natural Indian expressions. I guess part of the problem in modern times is that one may just reject anything that is not the shining Self as an illusion.


Thank you

Pranam

[yajvan]

hariḥ om̐
~~~~~~
namasté & hello

Framing the conversation...
If we look to ādi śaṅkara-ji's vivekacūḍāmaṇi , 110th and 111 śloka-s, theyaddress māyā and brings controversy to many a scholar/śāstṛi ( that would not be me). The 111th śloka informs us of the following as it discusses this māyā. It says,
It is neither real or unreal or both; it is neither undifferentiated nor different nor both; it neither has parts nor is it part-less nor both. It is supremely wonderful and of an inexpressible form.

hold that thought
What is this māyā ? It is rooted ( √ ) in mā or measuring and this 'yā' is restraining . Yet many say māyā is the notion of illusion. How are these two i.e. illusion and measuring/restraining , connected? Māyā is the illusion that the Infinite can be measured out or restrained. It is the idea that this Infinite Being that we experience as the universe ( and what it contains) is made of parts, finite items, zillions of them, but still finite , within boundaries. It is the boundless measured into the boundaries , this is the illusion of avidya ( ignorance).

Another staple¹ of advaita ( not two) thinking is the notion of a rope and a snake (rajju-sarpa). It suggests that one can be confused for the other. This is an example of māyā, of confusing X for Y, hence the illusion. Yet consider this. For this confusion to occur it must occur in dim light. In the full brightness of the day ( code for jñāna) the rope is not confused to be a snake; in no light at all ( code for the deepest levels of avidya or ignorance) there is no confusion because nothing is seen that causes confusion. It is this condition of dim light...
some can call jñāna- abhāva ( the negation of knowledge). Once someone informs the observer, ‘hey that is just a rope’ , the illusion is broken. The snake is a harmless piece of rope.
Let’s go to another or example to contrast the rajju-sarpa idea with another approach.

The mirage
A man sees a mirage, a pond of water in an open dessert. This mirage does not disappear even when the man is told, ‘hey that is a mirage, it’s not really water’. Even when told the person continues to see the mirage, unlike the snake and the rope. See the two ideas here.

conditioned and unconditoned
It boils down to an unconditioned and conditioned view of the world. In the unconditioned view a person, once told that the snake is a rope can extinguish the false notion with ease. In the condition version i.e. the mirage, even after one is told the water is nothing but a mirage, the person continues to see the water as if it was there.

This is one way to look at ādi śaṅkara-ji's view & how māyā works; with both views. He informs us that the world and its works is an illusion, but even after knowing this, we still see the world operating in the same manner. There’s actions and people. We are still within the conditioned/fragmented mind set of the world view. It must be known at the brahman level of perception – the unconditioned/undifferentiated wholeness. It goes back to the 3 steps mentioned above:
· brahman is real
· the universe is māyā , an illusion
· brahman is the universe

That is, knowing all that is ( this universe) as brahman, beyond the intellectual-conceptual idea and as a direct knowledge; direct knowledge means non-different than one’s own Being. Hence the term advaita , not 2, non-different than my Self - all this is none other than an expansion of me.
‘Me’ in this case = Self, Being.

This is just a few notions to start with; I will tag on a few more, but will await others ideas and comments.

इतिशिवं
iti śivaṁ


1. staple – (noun) a principal raw material; a basic or necessary item of food ( food here from a philosophical