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Thread: Tibetan Buddhism, Tantra, Tantric Shaivism & Advaita............Comments are welcome!

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  1. #1

    Tibetan Buddhism, Tantra, Tantric Shaivism & Advaita............Comments are welcome!

    Hi everyone,

    I have noticed that the Buddhadharma in Tibet is using Tantra and Tantric Shaivite implements and format
    and that both in Tibet and in the Pali texts Brahman is never mentioned. Only the god Brahma is and is summarily negated
    as a source of refuge. As a matter of fact, Shiva/Rudra and Vishnu are not even in the "Buddhadharmic" picture in the Pali or Tibetan texts!

    I have also noticed that a certain monk called Luang (insert middle name) Bua taught Buddhadharma essentially the same as
    Advaita Vedanta and in particular that the citta is eternal & indestructible. This is interesting because typically in many Buddhist circles,
    there is nothing eternal & indestructible. Very strange to see this actually particularly in regards to the state of Nirvana.

    I have read books from Swami Satyananda Saraswati that in meditation Shunya is reached but
    that there is a state beyond that. He agreed with the Buddhas' view on Shunya too.

    This has caused me to come to the conclusion that ultimately Advaita & Buddhadharma is teaching the same thing but
    using different terminology.

    How do you see it?

    Mangalam to you all.........
    Stefos
    Last edited by Stefos; 14 December 2016 at 07:37 AM.

  2. #2

    Re: Tibetan Buddhism, Tantra, Tantric Shaivism & Advaita............Comments are welc

    Namaste Stefos,


    What you say is true. Although Acharya Maha Bua is not saying citta is the atma, he is saying that the same citta is present in each birth. The closest thing in the pali sutta of the transcendent state free from individuality is in Kevatta sutta where he talks about Viññanam anidassanam or consciousness without any footing in the elements. The cosmology of this sutta is the same as Bhagavatam and other Hindu traditions.

    The best place to start how Tibetan Buddhist are linked to shiva shakti tantric practice starts at the 7 main universities of northern India at the time.

    http://www.hitxp.com/articles/histor...shila-nalanda/

    The picture that I have painted around this time that there was only Dharma, it was not as sectarian and divided although it was diverse. Shramanas were probably yogic groups that practiced all types of forest practices of dhyana and samadhi and other yogic disciplines. They may have been at odds with some of the brahminical ways, but Siddharta taught Brahmins to be better Brahmins via awareness of Dharma. Most of his closest disciples were Brahmins. It was a great time of discovery and the universities were recording and studying according to those discoveries, but these discoveries did not just happen overnight or due to the appearance of Siddharta, it was already inherent in the minds of the people.

    I also think it was a very healthy period, as some say that it was a time when Siddharta refuted and denied any Vedic Authority, this I dont accept, he said the highest mantra was Gayatri Mantra, I can give many accounts of the synthesis or even better how they were deeply related and integrated within each other, but I dont really take notes I just follow themes and learn along the way.

    Many Advaitins have freedom to study Buddhism and many things are similar and ultimately the essence is the same, they have influenced each other and kept traditions pure that pre existed both Siddharta and Adi Shankara.

  3. #3

    Re: Tibetan Buddhism, Tantra, Tantric Shaivism & Advaita............Comments are welc

    Namaste,

    Quote Originally Posted by markandeya 108 dasa View Post
    Namaste Stefos,


    What you say is true. Although Acharya Maha Bua is not saying citta is the atma, he is saying that the same citta is present in each birth. The closest thing in the pali sutta of the transcendent state free from individuality is in Kevatta sutta where he talks about Viññanam anidassanam or consciousness without any footing in the elements. The cosmology of this sutta is the same as Bhagavatam and other Hindu traditions.

    The best place to start how Tibetan Buddhist are linked to shiva shakti tantric practice starts at the 7 main universities of northern India at the time.

    http://www.hitxp.com/articles/histor...shila-nalanda/

    The picture that I have painted around this time that there was only Dharma, it was not as sectarian and divided although it was diverse. Shramanas were probably yogic groups that practiced all types of forest practices of dhyana and samadhi and other yogic disciplines. They may have been at odds with some of the brahminical ways, but Siddharta taught Brahmins to be better Brahmins via awareness of Dharma. Most of his closest disciples were Brahmins. It was a great time of discovery and the universities were recording and studying according to those discoveries, but these discoveries did not just happen overnight or due to the appearance of Siddharta, it was already inherent in the minds of the people.

    I also think it was a very healthy period, as some say that it was a time when Siddharta refuted and denied any Vedic Authority, this I dont accept, he said the highest mantra was Gayatri Mantra, I can give many accounts of the synthesis or even better how they were deeply related and integrated within each other, but I dont really take notes I just follow themes and learn along the way.
    I knew something was up in the way that the Theravadins taught about the 5 aggregates and the citta.

    Thank you for that key quote and information.

    Yes........I will re-look at the Kevatta Sutta and research the other info.

    Thanks,
    Stefos

  4. #4

    Re: Tibetan Buddhism, Tantra, Tantric Shaivism & Advaita............Comments are welc

    Hello there,

    Based on your studies, I have a question for you in our sharing:

    Buddhism says "no eternalism and nihilism."

    If that's the case, How is it that Buddhism talks about Nirvana being release? In other words, the state of release must be eternal in my mind!
    Also, In Dzogchen & Mahamudra, the nature of mind is eternal! The mind is not............2 distinct things.

    Can you please shed some insight on this?
    Thank you,
    Stefos

  5. #5

    Re: Tibetan Buddhism, Tantra, Tantric Shaivism & Advaita............Comments are welc

    Namaste Stefos,

    In my understanding this is seen from 1st persons experience of wanting to be something and not wanting to be something, and is based on craving- tanha, which is a root cause of suffering, this is within the context of our experiences within the conditions, , if this is penetrated by insight then sama/ equanimity will be found, not easy.... takes a lot of practice. This is not related to atma vichara on deeper level, which really kicks in once we have been firmly established in equanimity, where on can explore consciously deeper levels of dhyana and samadhi.


    There were many epithets that Siddharta used for Nibbana, one being Shiva, and when he used the word Nibbana it would be in a context that would have a direct impact on the mind of the person he was talking to.

    For example if say he saw a person who was very hot and feeling discomfort from blistering heat and was sweating, panting and he approached The Buddha the awakened one and asked him what is nibbana~nirvana, he would simple say, Nibbana is cooling, calming, refreshing and this would then give him direct insight into the nature of nibbana and would change his life, its the power behind the words and not the words themselves that transforms and gives release, although this may or may not apply to Sanskrit as Sanskrit is a manifestation through Sabda-sound and Vach-speech of cosmic/universal vibrations and beyond, but I dont know enough Sanskrit to explain properly with any authority.

    Mind has many meanings in different Systems that gets translated into English, usually within Chan, which one could say is a very close relative to Dzogchen where Mind is our true nature. Within Vedanta Mind means something different as in the compounded structure of Ego, intellect, mind, memory or ahamkara, buddhi, manas, chitta. So Mind in Buddhist schools mostly Mahayana is not always the same context as Mind in Vedanta, but its also not a black and white division, because both include chitta and chitta can only be one thing.

    Its a great study and as I am finding, you will find that bridge if this is your way, it will come together at some point. But it needs some practice, I find retreats really helped me, gives time for things to settle. As far as know Mind or pure Mind means chitta, one may ask why chitta is our original nature, its a good question, takes some time to work out, chitta is originally pure and if one has developed chitta to not become or not annihilate what arises then there isnt really any need to say what is the experience or give it a term, one can say Buddha or simply awake, what rises ceases and in the end is peace, nibbana.


    Its very clever really and always deals with whats obstructing Absolute Truth, i.e the 5 kleshas. Transcendence is transcendence, it cant be uttered or understood while we are bound within limited conditions.

    I will post some good titles to read from both Theravada/pali tradition and Mahayana Chan, that could help with some essential understanding , for me very important books and very simple and easy to read with the essentials of Buddha dharma outside of comparative studies.

    Ok 3 books that may help ( and these just my personal choices )

    1.The Sutta-Nippata Tranlsated by H. Saddahatissa

    2.The Surangama Sutra - Commentary Ch'an Master Han Shan Translated by Upaska Lu K'uan Yu

    These two will give you a good understand of early Buddhism 1. and 2.Chan Buddhism and Mahayana

    And a recent addiction although not read all of it yet

    Sun Faced Buddha The teachings of Ma-tsu amd the Hung Chou School of chan introduced and translated by Cheng Chien Bhikshu.

    The Sutta-Nippata has been perhaps the best revelation of early Buddhism I have come across, its very simple and beautiful and a compilation of suttas, if within Buddha dharma there was only one book that should survive it would be this one for me.

    Sun face Buddha I only recently borrowed it and The Surangama Sutra you may want to check a few different translations.


    Pranam
    Last edited by markandeya 108 dasa; 20 February 2017 at 06:38 PM.

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