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    Where to start understanding this cosmos

    Dear All, Namaste !

    Typical Jyotish study start understanding rashi's / graha's etc but I think there is a much deeper aspect which no-one talks OR cares about. The 3 Guna's / 5 tatva's ... basic building blocks of this cosmos. I was recently watching youtube video lecture by Shri Visti Larsen on Panchanga where he was linking grah's & their positions to tatva's and link the base tatva dosha's (or otherwise) to how they impact our understanding in this world... thus making impact in our life / relationships / material life etc.

    I think right way to start learning Jyotish is not by starting with cramming rules but to know how this cosmos is made up of, what is the fabric of this cosmos and how it flows from there into our existence. Perhaps Vedic Rishi's have absolute understanding of these aspects and hence they were able to create this science called Jyotish in the first place. And thereby also, this profound understanding of how this cosmos works (and how these rules can be flexed - read remedies), become dangerous knowledge if given in wrong hands thus was protected only for right people.

    Where is the "Right Entrance" to this knowledge of cosmos, and how to make one first capable of receiving this blessing of knowledge into one's life ? Your experiences and suggestions please.

    Pranam !

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    Re: Where to start understanding this cosmos

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté & hello


    Quote Originally Posted by rohitsingh_81 View Post
    Dear All, Namaste ! Typical Jyotish study start understanding rashi's / graha's etc but I think there is a much deeper aspect which no-one talks OR cares about. The 3 Guna's / 5 tatva's ... basic building blocks of this cosmos.
    I'd like to offer a slightly different point of view for one's kind consideration. You have talked a bit of the mahābhūta-s. Yet when we look a bit broader, on a macro scale, the total constitution of reality ( of which the graha-s fit in )is made-up of:

    • śuddha or ‘pure’ unqualified, undifferentiated
    • a śuddha or ‘impure’ or qulified and differentiated ( the world of things)
    • and then there is this śuddhāśuddha condition, or pure & impure.

    Note that ‘impure’ does not designate ~dirty or bad~ ; it only means that the pure is now co-mingled with the impure of the world ( code for things, elements and the tattva-s of shape form , size, smell, touch, sight, etc.)

    What of this?

    The sāṃkhya¹ school recognizes 25 tattva-s ( that-ness) ; the school I align to (kaśmir śaivism ) sees the 25 but also suggests there’s 36 in total. It is just a more refined view . Within this 36 :
    • 1 to 5 are pure, śuddha , unqualified
    • 6 to 12 are pure-impure , śuddhāśuddha
    • 13 to 36 are impure, aśuddha or ‘impure’ or qualified and differentiated ( the world of things, forms, shapes, ideas, smells, taste, etc)

    Now for one that has been studying this school for a while will say , oh there’s 37 and this I would would agree as the 37th is paramaśivaḥ which contains all, is the expression of, and all-inclusive sum total of the 36 and beyond the 36. So of a person said 37 is paramaśivaḥ, I’d say yes, and above this must be 38, and I too must agree, because paramaśivaḥ is uttara , or unsurpassed, and all-inclusive at the same time.

    What is my point ?
    If one addresses the mahābhūta-s (earth, fire, wind, etc) as the building blocks of the cosmos per your post, one might ask what then is the building blocks of them (the mahābhūta-s) ? Well, that leads one’s investigation to the five tanmātras, and then to buddhi , ahaṃkāra , manas, the organs of cognition, organs of action etc. etc. We get more refined as we go down the list of 25 or 36 tattva-s. In fact as you have mentioned the mahābhūta-s do in fact make up the cosmos, but they’re the tip of the iceberg. they are the ~final 5~ tattva-s.
    My point is the universe is not known without consciousness , it is the core of the universe. So much so it is the seen ( all the objects), the method of seeing ( our perceptive tools of cognition) and it is the seer ( the experiencer of the universe) all at the same time. This is clearly pointed out in ādi śaṅkara-ji's dṛgdṛṣya-viveka ( inquiry into the seer and the seen) & also is a key principle of the discussions in our upaniṣads.

    When you ask of a deeper aspect of jyotish, it is Being/consciousness. Without it no one could take the 1st step into jyotish.
    By knowing ‘that’ all else is known... this idea is a core offer of the chāndogya upaniad and a direct question asked in the muṇḍaka upaniad(1.1.3) ; once we know 'that', Being, pure consciousness, all else is known.



    इतिशिवं
    iti śivaṁ


    terms

    • sāṃkhya – note that saṃkhya = count up, reckoning ( Hence the counting of 25); it is also one of the six orthodox schoolsknown in Indian philosophy;
      • It is attributed to the seer kapila-ji. If one is paying attention the śrīmad bhāgavad gītā they willnote it is the first level of knowledge kṛṣṇaḥ -jī offers to arjuna in chapter 2.

    Last edited by yajvan; 15 December 2016 at 12:46 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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    Re: Where to start understanding this cosmos

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté & hello

    By knowing ‘that’ all else is known... this idea is a core offer of the chāndogya upaniṣad and a direct question asked in the maṇḍaka upaniṣad(1.1.3) ; once we know 'that', Being, pure consciousness, all else is known.

    This seems quite a lofty statement! How can one get a sense of it? Let me offer the response found in the chāndogya upaniṣad (chāndogyopaniṣat) section 5.1.3.

    It is the response the sage āruṇi-ji gives to the student śvetaketu¹, he says:
    My dear, knowing what is real in a single clod of clay makes everything made of clay known. By knowing gold, all ornaments and bangles of gold are thereby known; knowing steel all that is made of steel is known. Variation is in name only.

    ‘this’ ( the world, the universe) in essence is none other than ‘that’ (pure awareness).

    इतिशिवं
    iti śivaṁ

    1. śvetaketu – grandson of aruṇa and son of āruṇi. His name ( always part of the story) śveta+ketu = white + bright, clear rays, intellect. He therefore is of pure intellect, clear, bright.
    Last edited by yajvan; 14 December 2016 at 04:44 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  4. #4

    Re: Where to start understanding this cosmos

    Dear Vajyan Ji, Namaste !

    You have opened the Pandora's box... thank you for these pointers or should I say gems. Mahābhūta-s are just the start and tip of iceberg as you rightly said when I found this image and it takes a while to grasp the vastness of what is depicted here.



    "My point is the universe is not known without consciousness , it is the core of the universe."
    I used to practice Dynamic Meditation (given by Osho Rajneesh) many years back and only glimpse I have of consciousnesses is from that experience. It is state of Satori / no-mind (just for those 2-3 seconds when it occurs and disappears) where there are NO thoughts clouding mind and only pure consciousnesses that remains very much attached to senses such that only "seeing" remains and "Seer" disappears. That's a different subject however.

    From the perspective of this science, you mentioned to refer to chāndogya upaniṣad. Could you be kind enough to advice if this would be a good point to start reading ? I dont live in India and moreover dont understand Sanskrit. Could you point me to some online english / hindi source if you know of please. Also you mentioned "When you ask of a deeper aspect of jyotish, it is Being/consciousness. Without it no one could take the 1st step into jyotish"... do we need to necessarily join a param-para OR have a guru to start this journey OR self study can take a bit before we are qualified to seek a Guru ? Please let me know your thoughts.

    Pranam !

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    Re: Where to start understanding this cosmos

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté & hello

    Let's see if I can add some ideas and value ....

    Thank you for the chart that was offered. To go deeper and wider ( and add clarity) consider this book:
    "Kashmir Shaivism the Secret Supreme Revealed by Swami Laksmanjoo" - that is the title as seen on the book. The chart you offered is directionally correct but needs some clarity added. This book will add the luster to one's understanding.

    you mention,
    I used to practice Dynamic Meditation (given by Osho Rajneesh) many years back and only glimpse I have of consciousnesses is from that experience. It is state of Satori / no-mind (just for those 2-3 seconds when it occurs and disappears) where there are NO thoughts clouding mind and only pure consciousnesses that remains very much attached to senses such that only "seeing" remains and "Seer" disappears. That's a different subject however.
    That clarity of mind you mention, even for 2-3 seconds, will grow with practice... so this is quite important for one to continue to groom this. Do not look for it, just allow it to occur during your practice, create the seat to invite it in, but do not pursue it. It is like trying to jump over your own shadow. Note too the consciousness that you use now is none other than that, but it is applied consciousness i.e. awareness. You are never without it.

    re: chāndogya upaniṣad ( some like to spell chāndogyopaniṣat) - I have yet to find an on-line source that I would recommend. The one that is excellent and I continue to use again and again is "Chāndogya Upaniṣad by Swami Muni Narayana Prasad". Is it jyotish oridented? No, it is Being/brahman/pure awareness oriented for one to get their bearings on the matter.

    Yet to say is there ONE book that solves the notion of getting one's bearing on Being/Existence/pure awareness? That all depends on one's level of awareness/consciousness. To the wise, only one or two words may be sufficient to rid them of the dross of ignorance. It always goes back to one's clarity of consciousness. All knowledge is an expression of that - knowledge is structured in consciousness. This takes some getting use to .

    इतिशिवं
    iti śivaṁ




    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  6. #6

    Re: Where to start understanding this cosmos

    Dear Yajvan Ji

    Many thanks for pointing to the book "Kashmir Shaivism, the secret supreme". I was able to find a PDF copy on net and have been reading it (although in religious & pious pursuit, it seems wrong to read a pirated copy). Have finished chapter 1 & 2 and here are some doubts if you could clarify please:

    1. There seem to be perfect mapping (1-to-1 mapping) from MahaBhuta's to TanMantra's and similarly to Janendriya's. But I am confused if this 1-to-1 mapping is also applicable to Karmendriya's (somehow I am unable to see logic here as is visible with TanMantra's & Janendriya's).
    2. Prakarti is where the 3 guna's arise & flow. Would it be right to say that Guna's reside within AntehKaran's (mind, body & Ahamkaraka) ? In pure material existence (Mahabhuta's) I am unable to relate concept of Guna's ?
    3. The composition of Purush is both subjective & objective elements; then he interact with Prakarti limited by 6 elements of Maya. From here, the 2nd chapter takes us into 6 fold path of universe. Path has the same meaning here as Tao in Taoism but hereinafter I was unable to comprehend anything in chapter 2. Can you advice what is your understanding of 6fold path. Just an outline would perhaps help me grasp the direction.

    Many thanks once again.
    Pranam !

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