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Thread: karmic debts of spiritual person?

  1. #11
    Join Date
    September 2006
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    Re: karmic debts of spiritual person?

    hariḥ oṁ

    Quote Originally Posted by Soul of Light View Post
    Namaste all
    So my question is-
    If any person is suffering
    Note that one need not go further than this part of the sentence to offer some insights. I look to rāmaṇa mahaṛṣi¹ for clarity on this matter...

    Q: _____If God is all, why does the individual suffer for his actions? Are not actions prompted by Him?
    mahaṛṣi: this logic is applied only when one suffers but not when one rejoices ( or when happy, content, and the same) ?

    Q: _____but when will suffering cease ?
    mahaṛṣi: not until individuality is lost. He who thinks he/she is the doer ( of actions) will also be the sufferer.
    If both good actions and 'bad' actions are His, why should you think that enjoyment is yours alone? Or suffering is yours alone ?

    iti śivaṁ

    1. 'Talks with rāmaṇa mahaṛṣi' - 1937, June 14th. ISBN 1-878019-00-7
    Last edited by yajvan; 25 March 2017 at 10:02 AM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva


  2. #12
    Join Date
    May 2014
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    Re: karmic debts of spiritual person?

    Namaste Devotee ji and Yajvan ji..
    You both cleared my doubt.. Thanx for conversation of Maharshi Yajvan ji..
    My all doubts are cleared now regarding this topic..

    Aasato ma sat gamay
    tamaso ma jotirgamay
    mrityorma amrutamgamay
    (Bring me from asat to sat, bring me from darkness (ignorance) to light (knowledge), bring me from death to immortality)
    Om Namah Shivay
    Om Vishnave Namah

  3. #13

    Re: karmic debts of spiritual person?


    In Vedanta, the following analogy is used to explain Karma.Vedanta says that you are the bowman in every birth. The quiver of arrows represents Sanchita Karma.A bowman stands aiming at a distant target. He takes out an arrow from the quiver and releases it. While the arrow is floating through the air, the bowman takes another arrow from the bundle of arrows in the quiver and fits it in the bow. He is ready to shoot another arrow even as the other arrow is going towards its target in one direction.
    Sanchita Karma is the sum total of the good and bad deeds of all your past lives.
    The arrows in the quiver are all the good and bad actions from your past life. All the good and bad actions from your past life reside in the quiver as residual effects for your future life.
    Vedanta further explains that the arrow that you have shot is that portion of the sanchita or past karma that is responsible for your present body and destiny. This is called Prarabhdha karma.

  4. #14

    Re: karmic debts of spiritual person?

    Namaste to all,
    Thanks for beautiful conversation. I am very happy to read all conversation. I am new comer to this forum. I am 33 year old.
    I had suffered so much mental pain in young age of my life and in childhood I was shy and full of fear always. And suddenly One day my life has been changed by god(rebirth). All mental suffering gone. It's like someone has given me gift of knowledge. I realized I have done good karma in past life and God has given me gift in this life to continue God's path.

    Jai shree Ram.

  5. Re: karmic debts of spiritual person?

    Karma is quite complex and is affected by many, many factors.

    It is affected by our good actions and by our actions. And it is affected, greatly, by prayers, by prayers of repentance and by meditations.

    Generally, most karma is returned within about 100 years. If you did a murder in a past life, it will be paid back within 100 years or so. But it can also be paid back 5 years or in 20. It varies widely.

    But no one escapes, not ever.

    Now, if you give up all your selfish actions and devote your entire life to God, the weight of your punishment can be greatly reduced.

    Paramahansa Yogananda tells a story of a great Yogi sitting around with some disciples, around a campfire. The Yogi takes a piece of wood out of the fire and burns one of the disciples. The disciple screams in pain. The Yogi looks at him and says that karma decreed that he had to die in a fire, but the grace of the Yogi allowed this one burn to fulfill the needs of karma.

    If we see children suffering greatly, it is often simply because, in a past life, they abandoned a child to suffering or directly harmed a child. Or there can be a wide range of other reasons. Children (and adults) can suffer greatly, without having done anything wrong.

    Suffering is also purification that brings the soul to God.

    So, a greatly suffering soul, is always close to God.


  6. #16
    Join Date
    February 2011
    chennai, India
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    Re: karmic debts of spiritual person?

    My two penny worth.

    So long you think you are the doer, the karmic debt keeps accumulating in you. So long you train to believe that you are not the doer and you are a mere executor of the divine will, all debts are not to your account.

    My prayer in the morning to my Guru is this. "I surrender my body, mind and Atma at your feet. My each word, deed and feelings are surrendered at your feet. Let your will be done."

    With this I start my day.



    I would agree too that guru does not take any karmic debt, what would he then do it with, would he then have to pay that debt by suffering due to his disciples acts.

    What is karma anyway, the word itself just means action. So guru teaches one how to act in this world so one can then build up their own status fit for liberation and union.

    In terms of Karmic debts, how can one understand karma and its fruition, who knows what will be our next experience, life can turn from good to bad and bad to good within any period of time. Karma is intricate and complex, one can only understand their own situation when we get full knowledge or liberation to a higher status of consciousness, when one can see more clearly into dependant causes and their release.

    Krishna gives the remedy in Bhagavad Gita

    Chapter 4: Transcendental Knowledge

    TEXT 37
    yathaidhamsi samiddho 'gnir
    bhasma-sat kurute 'rjuna
    jnanagnih sarva-karmani
    bhasma-sat kurute tatha

    yathā—just as; edhāṁsi—firewood; samiddhaḥ—blazing; agniḥ—fire; bhasmasāt—turns into ashes; kurute—so does; arjuna—O Arjuna; jñāna-agniḥ—the fire of knowledge; sarva-karmāṇi—all reactions to material activities; bhasmasāt—to ashes; kurute—it so does; tathā—similarly.
    As the blazing fire turns firewood to ashes, O Arjuna, so does the fire of knowledge burn to ashes all reactions to material activities.

    The words I find most interesting are jñāna-agniḥ, which destroy avidya or burn up klesha, the root cause of bondage karma. Lately I am seeing some of the key words more deeply like jñāna-agniḥ, tejas, tapas for example in a more conscious way, or how they relate and are only of the nature of consciousness. Jnana as natural awareness, innate , agni as the supreme heat or light that shows us things more clearly, tapas as purifying heat that give rise to more psychic properties and tejas that balances nama and rupa body mind dynamic. These are just very brief and simple translations.

    I think what is also important as a personal reflection is that one should only be the judge, witness of ones own karma, it seems a great injustice to look at another sufferings as their karma.


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