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Thread: karmic debts of spiritual person?

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    karmic debts of spiritual person?

    Namaste all!
    I know the law of karma and after starting Learning astrology I came to the concept of karma again.. what we did in past life have so much impact on present life..

    So my question is-
    If any person is suffering, in childhood by any reason he doesn't get to involve in material world like other kids do, he didn't enjoy life much but this all incidences created vairagya or the emotion of virasa in him and he get so much involved in God, starting loving God selflessly..

    So here this all happened because his bad karmas in past life as he suffered and didn't enjoyed or the fruits of good karma as he got highest gift of God and spirituality which is much more important..

    Or simply he is completing sadhna he didn't able to complete in past birth..?
    It's just my doubt.. hope doubt will be cleared from hdf

    Pranam
    Aasato ma sat gamay
    tamaso ma jotirgamay
    mrityorma amrutamgamay
    (Bring me from asat to sat, bring me from darkness (ignorance) to light (knowledge), bring me from death to immortality)
    Om Namah Shivay
    Om Vishnave Namah

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    Re: karmic debts of spiritual person?

    Hari Om!

    What a great query! It seems that you have a good understanding, but please let me add a bit if I may.

    First, if one has Guru, then Guru can take on much of karmic debt. An evolved soul is fortunate enough in life to have been found by such a Satguru.

    Please remember too that one evolves through karmas until a merging with the Divine, thus moksha. Sadhana unfinished in one life is taken up in another. There is no loss, one simply takes up where one left off.

    Not all suffering is bad as often it can be a catalyst, an illuminating force, or a spiritual awakening. An example - when one feels physical or even mental pain, a remedy is sought. This would be the start of healing. An extreme, but perhaps a near death experience would lead one to a spiritual life.

    Then there is the question of samskaras. Many believe that they too carry over from life to life until resolved, thus the "bad karma" that lead to a higher purpose - attaining love for god.

    Would love more discussion on this as well as your additional thoughts.

    Om

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    Re: karmic debts of spiritual person?

    Quote Originally Posted by c.smith View Post
    Hari Om!

    What a great query! It seems that you have a good understanding, but please let me add a bit if I may.

    First, if one has Guru, then Guru can take on much of karmic debt. An evolved soul is fortunate enough in life to have been found by such a Satguru.

    Please remember too that one evolves through karmas until a merging with the Divine, thus moksha. Sadhana unfinished in one life is taken up in another. There is no loss, one simply takes up where one left off.

    Not all suffering is bad as often it can be a catalyst, an illuminating force, or a spiritual awakening. An example - when one feels physical or even mental pain, a remedy is sought. This would be the start of healing. An extreme, but perhaps a near death experience would lead one to a spiritual life.

    Then there is the question of samskaras. Many believe that they too carry over from life to life until resolved, thus the "bad karma" that lead to a higher purpose - attaining love for god.

    Would love more discussion on this as well as your additional thoughts.

    Om
    Namaste ji,
    Thank you so much for your reply, I agree with you..
    Guru takes much of our karma if we are fortunate enough and we become fortunate by karma itself.

    I also think there is no loss in sadhna if one rebirths and its relief to hear it..
    It's strange sometimes peoples born in same environment and in same condition thinks differently.. sometimes there is so much spiritual environment but the person never attracts towards God and vise versa..
    So there must be some connection of karmas and samskaras also..

    I think when we left our sadhna in previous life due to death and in next life to stop ourself from being entangled in Maya God gives us some suffering to create vairagya. There are double benefits, one started attracting towards spiritual world after knowing illusion of this material world and his karmic debts also gets cleared.. and at one stage nothing remains and he merges.. but it's my personal thought..
    I will like to hear more from you and others.

    Pranam
    Aasato ma sat gamay
    tamaso ma jotirgamay
    mrityorma amrutamgamay
    (Bring me from asat to sat, bring me from darkness (ignorance) to light (knowledge), bring me from death to immortality)
    Om Namah Shivay
    Om Vishnave Namah

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    Re: karmic debts of spiritual person?

    Hari Om!

    Exactly! Very delighted that you have shared such thoughts as they pretty much parallel mine.

    Would anyone be so kind as to elaborate on the three types of karma and how each may be exhausted? If not, will try my best in a few days time when it permits but am limited to what have read by only one source. Perhaps you know of them Soul of Light? But only if this does not take away from your original intention. Please advise.

    Om
    Last edited by c.smith; 25 December 2016 at 08:00 PM. Reason: Clarification

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    Re: karmic debts of spiritual person?

    Namaste,

    Quote Originally Posted by c.smith View Post
    ......... Guru can take on much of karmic debt......
    Not sure where this comes from!
    Guru can inspire/guide/lead/exhort/help you to do good so as to relieve you of the karmic debt. But how can one 'take on' somebody else's karmic debt. If you screw up, you fix it. Maybe it was just phrased in a different way.

    Pranam.

  6. #6

    Re: karmic debts of spiritual person?

    Namaste,

    I would agree too that guru does not take any karmic debt, what would he then do it with, would he then have to pay that debt by suffering due to his disciples acts.

    What is karma anyway, the word itself just means action. So guru teaches one how to act in this world so one can then build up their own status fit for liberation and union.

    In terms of Karmic debts, how can one understand karma and its fruition, who knows what will be our next experience, life can turn from good to bad and bad to good within any period of time. Karma is intricate and complex, one can only understand their own situation when we get full knowledge or liberation to a higher status of consciousness, when one can see more clearly into dependant causes and their release.

    Krishna gives the remedy in Bhagavad Gita


    Chapter 4: Transcendental Knowledge

    TEXT 37
    yathaidhamsi samiddho 'gnir
    bhasma-sat kurute 'rjuna
    jnanagnih sarva-karmani
    bhasma-sat kurute tatha

    SYNONYMS
    yathā—just as; edhāṁsi—firewood; samiddhaḥ—blazing; agniḥ—fire; bhasmasāt—turns into ashes; kurute—so does; arjuna—O Arjuna; jñāna-agniḥ—the fire of knowledge; sarva-karmāṇi—all reactions to material activities; bhasmasāt—to ashes; kurute—it so does; tathā—similarly.
    TRANSLATION
    As the blazing fire turns firewood to ashes, O Arjuna, so does the fire of knowledge burn to ashes all reactions to material activities.

    The words I find most interesting are jñāna-agniḥ, which destroy avidya or burn up klesha, the root cause of bondage karma. Lately I am seeing some of the key words more deeply like jñāna-agniḥ, tejas, tapas for example in a more conscious way, or how they relate and are only of the nature of consciousness. Jnana as natural awareness, innate , agni as the supreme heat or light that shows us things more clearly, tapas as purifying heat that give rise to more psychic properties and tejas that balances nama and rupa body mind dynamic. These are just very brief and simple translations.

    I think what is also important as a personal reflection is that one should only be the judge, witness of ones own karma, it seems a great injustice to look at another sufferings as their karma.

    Pranam

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    Re: karmic debts of spiritual person?

    Vannakkam: I third it, after Believer, and markandeya 108. Not sure where it comes from either, but I do have my suspicions.

    Aum Namasivaya

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    Re: karmic debts of spiritual person?

    Quote Originally Posted by c.smith View Post
    Hari Om!

    Would anyone be so kind as to elaborate on the three types of karma and how each may be exhausted? If not, will try my best in a few days time when it permits but am limited to what have read by only one source. Perhaps you know of them Soul of Light? But only if this does not take away from your original intention. Please advise.

    Om
    Namaste
    I was taught that there are several kinds of karma, to include Prarabdha, matured, Karma which are actions we put into motion and are registered in the universe and will eventually come to fruition in due course. Sanchita or stored karma, the storehouse of every action you have ever done, in all the lifetimes you have ever lived. Āgāmī karma is a mandatory karma, you have little choice, if any ie your race, sex or geographical location during childhood, then kriyamāṇa, actionable, present karma, the one that is being done now. I realize these are 4 not 3 but maybe one falls into two catagories. Hope this helps
    In whatever way people surrender unto me, I reciprocate with them accordingly.

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    Re: karmic debts of spiritual person?

    Namaste all!
    Thanks for beautiful conversation.. I wasn't here for few days,
    I will like to know the way to exhausted karma as c. Smith ji said,
    Markendya 108 dasa ji told the verse of geeta about fire of knowledge, what are the different more ways? Tapas also? If yes then which kind of tapas?

    Also about Guru taking karmic debts.. I am not fortunate enough as I don't have Guru.. but until I get Guru God is my Guru.. I heard many times Guru can take karmic debts.. but believer ji also present valid point. Will like to read the fruitful discussion
    Pranam
    Aasato ma sat gamay
    tamaso ma jotirgamay
    mrityorma amrutamgamay
    (Bring me from asat to sat, bring me from darkness (ignorance) to light (knowledge), bring me from death to immortality)
    Om Namah Shivay
    Om Vishnave Namah

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    Re: karmic debts of spiritual person?

    Namaste SOL,

    Quote Originally Posted by Soul of Light View Post
    If any person is suffering, in childhood by any reason he doesn't get to involve in material world like other kids do, he didn't enjoy life much but this all incidences created vairagya or the emotion of virasa in him and he get so much involved in God, starting loving God selflessly..

    So here this all happened because his bad karmas in past life as he suffered and didn't enjoyed or the fruits of good karma as he got highest gift of God and spirituality which is much more important..

    Or simply he is completing sadhna he didn't able to complete in past birth..?
    It's just my doubt.. hope doubt will be cleared from hdf
    The highest goal is getting feeling of detachment from this MAyic world and its fatal attractions and going to God. The highest prayer is : "Asato Maa sad gamaya, Tamaso maa Jyotirgamaya, Mritoyr maa amritam gamaya".

    So, if MAyA acts in a little harsh way to drive us from worldly pleasure to God, it is not due to Bad Karma but due to Good Karma. Getting Worldly Pleasure due to Good Karma occurs when the Seeker does good Karma and still longs for worldly pleasures. The situation that you have mentioned comes when Seeker has done good Karma and wanted to detach from the worldly pleasures and go towards God but was not successful in previous life for any reason whatsoever. So, such situations are created so that he progresses on the Path to God continuing his feeling of detachment from MAyic creations for sensual pleasures.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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