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Thread: Punished for being helpful, honest and religious ?

  1. #1

    Punished for being helpful, honest and religious ?

    Last edited by Shiva5; 21 March 2017 at 10:15 AM. Reason: don't want to create any negativity.

  2. #2
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    Re: Punished for being helpful, honest and religious ?

    Hari Om!

    As difficult as it may be, please try not to despair. One never knows what the gods hold in store for us but must have faith that it is for our own good. The trials that you have encountered will make you stronger. Lessons learned.

    Hanuman Chalisa is a fantastic place to start as He is a generous and compassionate Lord and answers all genuine seekers. You are on the right path - keep the faith! Please try to stay positive so that those energies can be attracted to you. Our minds are so very powerful. Sri Hanuman will work His magic in due time, you must trust that this will happen.

    If I may be so bold, may I suggest that you consider meditating on compassion for yourself and others. Perhaps this will be difficult given all the wrongdoings, but please try to put it aside for a short time and know that the pure soul is nothing but love and purity.

    All the best to you my friend. You will succeed and overcome these obstacles one by one!


  3. #3
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    Re: Punished for being helpful, honest and religious ?

    hariḥ oṁ
    namasté & hello,
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiva5 View Post

    • After reading this, I don't want pity or counter productive comments,

    • we helped numerous people that came in our business and needed support of some kind, some needed money to eat, some needed housing, some needed medical help etc.. we neglected our business to help those in need.

    • everyone we have helped has moved on and made millions and now at this age we have to go through this.

    • are we to believe that honest, helping people will suffer and evil people are winning.. everyone that has hurt us are doing very very well.. We don't want money or any help from anyone, just want peace and happiness in our lives, and may god keep all those evil people away from us.

    First and foremost, I do not have the answer to your problems; how things come about in one's life has so many moving parts, even kṛṣṇaḥ informs us that actions are unfathomable. Also, I cannot offer pity, but I do think you want people to understand your plight and that would be empathy (not sympathy). Empathy says, yes, I too have had that experience so I better understand your plight. So , with that said, let me mention a few things.

    When you help other people it is the right thing to do... it is not a transactional behavior. ' Oh, I will do this ( help, right action, support others) and I expect someone will do the same to me... this is why I do it; I am building a bank account. ' You , being a good/honest person do things because it is the right thing to do; it is that simple. It is when you expect a return ( or interest on your efforts) you are disappointed, therein lies the rub, therein lies the stress. I get can this be?

    The only person you can control is yourself, so your decisions and choices are controlled by you, but not the results. Where do I get my support for this statement? The bhāgavad gītā (chapter 2, 47th śloka)
    1 informs us, you certainly (eva) have ādhikāra (claim , right , privilege, control) of your (te or ti) karmaṇi (of your actions) , but never or not (mā) of its fruits (phalesu).
    What then is going on in your life? There are so many moving parts to an action, the fruit ( final outcome) is not in your hands. No doubt you want success, happiness, this is one's aim - so the best you can do is to continue to do the right things the best you can , within the situation you are in. This is what you control. Why do I say this? K
    ṛṣṇaḥ once again provides some insight... success is born of sattva, it is not the means 2. That is, your choice is to be on the side of dharma, of doing right, even in these times of stress.
    Making millions
    - interesting but not the yardstick in life, wouldn't you agree?

    but why is this happening to me?
    From the best I can tell of being on this planet some 64 years is this:
    We are knocked down so we learn how to get back up. The 'getting back up' is where the teaching comes in. I can attest to this from direct personal experience.

    iti śivaṁ

    1. Kṛṣṇa says the following in the bhāgavad gītā (chapter 2, 47th śloka)
    karmaṇi evādhikāras te
    mā phalesu kadācana |
    mā karma-phala-hetur bhūr
    mā te saṅgo'stv akarmaṇi || 47

    2. success, happiness, bliss (sukṛta) is born of sattva (sāttvkaṁ) - bhāgavad gītā (chapter 14, 16th śloka)

    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva


  4. #4
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    Re: Punished for being helpful, honest and religious ?

    Namaste Shiva5

    May be this discussion can help you

  5. #5

    Re: Punished for being helpful, honest and religious ?

    Namaste Shiva5 Ji,

    I can also relate to what you have said because I have seen this type of thing many times where good humble people get exploited. I want to share a few things that I have observed and experienced and come to know via experience. I am not sure it will offer a solution, but in my experience gathering a lot of views from different angles can help and open up broader considerations, even if something are hard to digest. Please bear with me, but I will try to make it as short as possible and trying to leave out as little as possible.

    I grew up in a council and industrial area of inner city Birmingham. During and after the 2nd world war the common household was was living on rations, which was very sparse, not even enough to live on. Most the fit and healthy men would have been by order of the King signed up for the war and sent on duty, they had little to no choice or would face prison. This left a lot of women and not so healthy men back at home, living on very small rations. People would only have small plots of land and they would have to grow their own foods. What came from this was a more sense of community and sharing and helping one another. Everyone was helping each other. After the war due to aid being cancelled by America things got worse, but the common person dug in deeper and the communities got strong based on the principles of sharing, living frugally and learning to go without. I always admire the character of the older generations that went through these tough periods and came out bigger, stronger and better people. Sometimes we are at our best when we are forced into tough situations.

    Also after the war a lot of people from other countries came to Birmingham, we had great diversity between Hindu, Sikh , Pakistan and Jamaica and Irish. I cant say it worked but it did bring in strong close community within themselves. What I admired about Asian people especially is that they had this system of having a pot that they would all contribute into. 5 families could be living in one home, and all worked in the factory, and they put equally in the pot each week and lived very simple. Within time they had enough money in the pot to buy another house, and the families would then live between two houses. They were growing up in hard conditions, long hours of working in factories and subject to racial hatred ( not from me I may add ) I was always interested in other cultures found everything fascinating, seeing new things. Then they would buy a small shop with the money in pot and to cut a long story short in few years facing all sorts of adversity they not only had their own houses, but they had businesses and spare houses where they would rent. I can only tip my cap to them in respect. So many times in adverse conditions great things can be achieved.

    Now fast forward to modern times or recent times. What is happening with the older generations is that the younger generation was brought up on more comfort and had easy times, its natural that parents will not want to put their own family through such struggle. But due to the ways of the modern world, which is based on power of the individual and material gain as success the older generation from their own families in old age are getting taken to the cleaners. Sons are using tactics to get the properties off their parents and swindling the money and businesses of all that hard work, even if its their father or mothers.

    Materialism has corrupted people to such large degrees that its just pitiful. I know many stories and the older generation feel let down, hurt and broken that all their hard work has been just for this. The sons are driving sports cars and their mothers and fathers being ripped off for every penny to many times. Now they are going slowly more into the ways of getting everything stripped that they worked for and told to get government benefits and had all their cash and savings into their sons bank accounts and then put in government elderly care so they wont have to pay. This is increasing, I know many stories, not for everyone, but it is increasing and what a sad thing is. And these people are Asians, who in majority have always had great family ethic, this is spreading in all cultures, due to materialism and the greed it brings.

    English people are the same, they never pay back their parents love and are quite happy to put their parents in old peoples homes and they live their life because they say they are to busy, there was a time when most Asian people would never even dream of thinking to do this, it was the same for British people, but now Asian people are slowly following these trends. So the golden generations that could teach and guide through there wisdom in life are rotting on chemicals with brain damage instead of being cared for and learned from.

    All this for money. my wife is nurse in old peoples home and once a Sikh gentleman came. He was distraught, the wife of his son was English. I wanted to meet him but my wife said better not get involved, I was about to cook prasadam for him and was making a play list of gurbanis for him, but my wife had reservations to take him as it may cause problems but she told him that I went India and he opened up to her, and was very distraught why he ended up there away from his family, in short time due to confusion and despair he died, more than likely of broken heart, he had no idea why this was happened to him, I think most people here will understand how he felt from the point of being Sikh, even I was shocked. I still regret now that I didnt just take a risk and go and visit him and sit with him and talk and feed him and bring his mind back to Dharma, a chance wasted.

    I really think old ways are best, if people were educated in the power of sharing then within a week all problems in this world would be solved, this I am convinced of, but no, the power of the individual and individual success of showing material things is considered supreme goal of life. When I grew up, we had nothing, we went through periods where I only lived and had clothes that were hand outs or second hand from bargain shops. And I feel that this was the best thing that could have happened to me, so there is no sorrow of not being brought up with so called material benefits.

    The only thing that is problem with manufactured poverty is the feeling of inferiority, where material things are seen as the only success, a man can live very simple but then he see's individual people on advertisement boards wearing big smile in nice shiny car, seeing people with beautiful house all smiling and feeling like they live in heaven, it breeds greed and contempt and destroys his simplicity and breeds the deep corruption and then we have crime and problems, but its always the poor who suffer, they get monitored more, pressured more , and simple spirit has been destroyed, or is that just an appearance based on a lie, does it work both ways.

    One could say I was brought up in inner city abject poverty, but luckily I only saw the good things that came out and it gave nothing more than a character and strength to work through even the toughest conditions of life, even if sometimes its not easy, but now is very different, hardship areas are not good places, no one is helping each other, neighbours will cheat and steal from neighbours, when before they would help, they would connect with the suffering and the spirit in the people could not be broken.

    Now so many people have good wealth, but what did they do, get drunk, get fat get obese eat without any conscious, middle class has heavy cocaine problems in the west, more greedy, pile up material responsibilities and many people now are down the doctors with either physical or mental health problems due to exploitation and end up only with stress. In some places you dont only have to sleep with just one eye open, you have to sleep with one and half eyes open and cameras, and this is not only in manufactured poverty areas, its also affluent areas ,material things bring misery and very seldom good qualities, if its out of balance. In nice affluent areas, are they happy, they have dogs, high walls, high gates, electric fences, CCTV, security guards, guns, nuclear weapons, missiles, why because they are they thieves, the balance has been lost and only live in fear and find happiness when the senses are stimulated or the feeling of power is in their minds, a feeling of superiority. So simple getting rich just doesnt work.

    i was not bought up in religious family, but due to my friendships on my street and areas I grew up in we listen to roots reggae music, this has very powerful meaning, how a man was stolen from his land, his dignity stolen, exploited by elite, and forced in labour by greedy society but that society will one day consume and destroy itself, very wise and true words. Is it coming true ?

    People now are so conditioned by the wrong things, if economic collapse happened, will it be disaster, I am not sure, the average person is good, only misdirected and forced to live for the individual or small area dynamic due to pressure, brainwashing. But if it collapsed totally, would we then go back to the land, grow our own food in the back yard, learn to share, learn to empathize again, learn that life has suffering, and this understanding of hardships makes ones heart good.

    A good man he creates great wealth and console his consciousness he gives in charity, this is good, only he does this because he cant reach out to his neighbor with natural love, that inclination is fast becoming destroyed where we want to help each other. We shut down, because of materialism we feel we cant trust, if we show our trust it gets exploited and in these times that lack of trust is called being wise. What a condition we are in, controlled and rules by impesonal society that cares nothing but its only external false image. But good is still around, I havent lost faith in people totally, I just see that most are innocent and misdirected and just wanting to be happy, but there is a fight, but how to do, I dont know.

    For all answers personally I look to Shastra, to guru's, to sadhu's say Like Kabir Ji and many others, who were champions of people but were fearless to speak against corruption of man in his spirit. And also listening deeply even if its painful to our own and others experiences, shastra only deals with experience and we need guidance through experience, not the brain, brain we only use a medium as a tool, a stepping stone to notice and understand what is beyond all these changing conditions and forms.

    Mahabharata is also deeply guiding and gives many meanings to how we can apply in our life. Duryodana would not even give Pandavas the amount of land that a pin could be driving into. Arjuna in the end, after years of hardship, he collapsed, but he collapsed in the right company of Sri Krsna and Sri Krsna gave him a type of strength that transcends the ordinary man. When Sri Krsna left this world Arjuna lost again all his powers and was easily defeated by some daciots. So where is our power, of course we have to find our self, in our own minds, heart and lives through experience and try to get some wisdom and compassion. Is loss of bad friends and getting cheated something bad, maybe they can be the greatest teacher, maybe they need the greatest compassion when the fall in traps of name, fame and wealth, if we have trouble in finances, is it really something bad, if we have found the center of refuge, or we start to surrender with heart and sincerity, is this not the greatest blessing sometimes. Is the problem really only one of perception.

    if we see the enemy of this world, who hides in the heart, with its greed, its hatred and ignorance, and we learn to cleanse our own heart, even if painful, is it blessing, or do we want to be success and hide the wealth that empowers the senses and feeling of superiority which needs to be guarded by guns, gates, high walls, electric fences......

    Maharaja Yudhistira said poverty destroys all mans good qualities, I wonder what he means by poverty, is it poverty of the heart or poverty of the pocket. We dont need to much really, simple food, simple shelter, medicine and simple clothing to protect from elements.

    I heard Krsna lives only in the heart of the rejected and down trodden. We are born with no pockets, we leave empty handed.

    I am not against wealth and stability, I try for my family, but I try keep their mind honest, and not give to much, some values are good. It sounds that your son is helping you, so you are so blessed, and he is blessed to be able to follow ancient way to help parents, what do you want to do, send him into materialism , maybe he will end up meeting all the cheaters and end up with broken heart too, is it a problem that son lives with his parent all life.

    If your not in trouble or in desperate state that you will be thrown on street, or cant feed yourself, and I dont want give you advice, but maybe its a blessing in disguise, sometimes the hardest lessons carry the deepest meaning.

    IN here and other places I am sure you can find a friend who can help spiritually, give you strength when you have non, or just read and be inspired and go deeper into practice and raise the inner vibration to suppress the forces of duality and its attachment.

    Dont think about Karma to much, very hard to understand this, one can only understand karma when they are self realized, it should not be projected upon others, only wish all people well, yes we idenify the enemy, but at the same time we have to know what is real solution, then we are armed with success both for ourself and all sentient beings, and by our own upliftement we uplift everything around us, even the ones who seem to be walking opposite way. Kali Yuga as I understand hides in Gold.

    Last edited by markandeya 108 dasa; 03 March 2017 at 05:47 AM.

  6. #6

    Re: Punished for being helpful, honest and religious ?

    Thank You so much, it's a small world.. I also grew up in Birmingham !.. I will read and digest this all and give my thoughts on this as I have to fly out today to see a friend who was just diagnosed with cancer. Will be back Sunday..... like you said you need supporting people who can guide you and give you hope.. Thank You everyone.. I know I have found the right support group here ... Om Namay Shiva.

  7. #7
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    Re: Punished for being helpful, honest and religious ?


    As soon as I read the post, something from the past came to mind. Thanks to research done by Anirudh, we have old wine in a brand new jug,


  8. #8

    Re: Punished for being helpful, honest and religious ?

    Namaste Shiva5,

    best of luck and prayers to your friend.

    Last edited by markandeya 108 dasa; 01 March 2017 at 03:18 PM.

  9. #9

    Re: Punished for being helpful, honest and religious ?

    Namaste Shiva5 ji,

    I read your post and the replies. I also read the post that people linked to (the one by jaypee) though I did not read the replies there (I only went as far down as where jaypee asks "Why do bad things happen to good people?").

    I sympathize with you but I really do not have anything to say other than the ugly truth, and even this ugly truth may only help the readers. Whether it would help you or not, I do not know.

    First, a little about my beliefs. I do not believe in this 'kaliyug' nonsense. There is no teaching from the scriptures that cannot be practiced, or is not applicable, in this yuga. As for past-life karmas, my belief is that the fruits of those karmas are first handed over to God and then God hands them to me, except if those fruits (even if they are all lemons) were touched by God, they simply canNOT be 'bad'. They can only be good. God gives me lemons because She wants me to make lemonade. I could be out on the street starving and freezing to death, and still think that I need to do something positive out of that. But that is my belief.

    As for you and jaypee, I think I know where you guys went wrong. It is obvious from reading your posts that you believe helping others equals being a good Hindu. But that is <b>not</b> true. It is not your fault. This is what we have all been taught and since it feels good to believe it, we blindly believed it. Now that some of us are suffering and our children have become materialists and consumerists (not good for them), we find that all our good deeds have gone down the drain. Our false beliefs are crashing in front of our eyes and taking us down too.

    Scriptures do not say helping others = good Hindu. They say <b>living by Dharma</b> = good Hindu. Dharma means those deeds, ideas, and teachings that help your progeny (and others) down to the seventh generation. It does not mean helping them monetarily. It means teaching them good values and principles (samskars). Also it isn't just one person and one family that needs to do this. Lots of people in society need to do this. Instead we only teach children to study hard and work hard, and we brag when they are "successful". So is it any wonder that people in society end up becoming self-centered materialists and consumerists bereft of compassion! The people who stole from you did so because they too were taught "not having money = not successful". They <b>fear</b> being not successful and so they lie, decieve, and defraud. The feeling of compassion does not even enter the minds full of fear.

    You have done us a great favour by telling us your situation. The younger readers here (including myself) need to be wise and learn from your experience. We need to learn to differentiate and discriminate between deeds that feel good from deeds that are actually Dharmic. Once identified, we need to share those deeds, values, principles, etc with others and imbibe those into younger generations. As I mentioned earlier, a lot of people in society will have to become Dharmic for this to succeed, since the attraction of materialism is strong enough to overcome the Dharma done by only a few people.

    Wish you all the best. For now I would like to share a short article based on Puranas-
    What is the one thing that no beings can do, except humans? Answer: Arts!

  10. #10
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    Re: Punished for being helpful, honest and religious ?


    "By doing everything according to our dharma and being a good person at all times and praying everyday.. is this our punishment ?."

    - 22 years in the IT industry, a successful businessman with flourishing business where everybody stole;
    - helped everyone with money and favors, never looked at the accounting books to see if the business was making money? Until one day the whole empire collapsed? Give me a break!

    "people around us are so selfish and egocentric and these are the families that we helped settle here and no matter what they do and how they treat people, everything falls in their laps.. is this fair ?.. "

    All of a sudden there is a realization that everyone around is BAD and still God is throwing everything they wish for into their laps?

    "We do not want any money, we just want guidance where we can make a little money to support my wife and myself, without going to our child for every dollar"

    A person with lifetime of experience in the IT industry and as a businessman is asking how to make a little money in a religious forum?
    And the person borrows little money to survive from his son, yet is 'flying out' to see a friend who was diagnosed with cancer - who is financing this trip?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiva5 View Post
    An Hindu person who was a real estate agent came in and offered to help us.....basically stole the business from us
    - It was necessary to mention that the real estate agent was a HINDU and that he stole a 'defunct' business?

    This made up story, told twice in this forum and I am sure in several other places over the internet, is a deliberate attempt to degrade and dehumanize Hindus and to speak ill of Hinduism as a religion. Our simple minded members hang on to every word said by this shyster and give him advice and consolation. Wake up people; don't let others play with your emotions and make you feel bad about Hindus/Hinduism. It is a mind game by a not-so-clever anti-Hindu person.

    Last edited by Believer; 05 March 2017 at 12:14 PM.

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