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Thread: prasaṅkhyāna (repetition)

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    Re: prasaṅkhyāna (repetition)

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté


    I wrote in the last post,
    With this false notion of ‘you’, it takes some getting use to, some explaining. Why ? Because most will say, I know myself. Well, this is in a general way. One knows their likes and dislikes, values, what to avoid, etc. This may be knowing some expression of you, but note one thing, the nature of ignorance (avidyā) is always dependent on something for its existence.
    sambandhokti ( ~ introduction~)
    I have been trying to think of ways to make this part simple to explain. Depending on who you read this śūkṣma śarīa (subtle body) may be defined as 17 components, some say 19 components, others may say 8, another says the city of 9 gates. See all the moving parts? What is one to do? Shoot for simplicity and for those that wish to see all the other components it is best to read up on them until you are satisfied.

    So, with that said, this post is aligned to the adhikāriṇaḥ pramiti jananko vedaḥ ( one who is eligible for this knowledge). This means if one reads and listens to this knowledge (of Self) and doesn’t ‘get it’ it just means he/she is not ripe for the information. What then to do ? Continue to listen , read, inquire etc. applying the ideas of post 6 above. It is all in the vein of prasaṅkhyāna or ‘repetition’, the core subject matter of this string.

    Let's Begin
    I often site the examples of I am happy, I am sad, I am big, I am little, I am ___( fill in the blank). Let’s see if I can offer a few ideas to get a better handle on this for those that still may be grasping at this. Let me borrow an approach from Ken Weber1 : I have feelings yet I am not those feelings; I have thoughts but I am not those thoughts, I have ideas, but I am not those ideas. I have a body, but I am not the body. In the same vein when I say I am Bob, Bob is just a name, and not authentically who I am. Just as saying I am a manager ( or teacher, student, taxi driver, maid, prime minister) , I really am none of these. Net-net ? People have confused what they do, or how they think, feel , behave, or how they are named for who they are. Why so? Because they have been conditioned in this manner over time ( again and again) and no one has told them otherwise. There are some simple ~proofs~ we can run to support these notions but let me stay out of the weeds for now.

    Click down one level ( and a bit more technical)
    You see , in the example above there is a perceiver, the method of perceiving, and the perceived ; the subject, the object, and the method of how this object is perceived or cognized.
    Cognized here means perceived, know, or become aware of. I can become aware of say a sound, I perceived the sound via my ability to hear. That is the method of perception for sound, the tongue for taste, the eyes for form, the skin and fingers for touch, the nose for smell. These are the methods of cognition... Yet too the mind and intellect also perceive and cognize , say an idea, a feeling ( I am happy, I am sad, I am frustrated, I am mad, etc.).

    Time to point out a thing or two
    When ‘I’ change from happy, to sad it went from one thing to another ( happy to sad), yet this ‘I’ only shifted from one cognition to another. Another example: ( and I think you will see the point). I hold an apple in my hands I perceive the apple via my eyes as an object; I then put it down and pick up a pencil.
    I now went to another object of perception, the pencil. I ‘chose’ in my mind to put my attention on the form of the apple and the pencil. I could have chosen the ‘feel’ of the apple and the pencil as the primary mode of cognition vs. sight. So, there are multiple ways to cognize, yet in each case we think ‘I’ am cognizing this apple or pencil ( this is an internal process) by sight or by feel.
    Within this cognition of the apple the intellect engages to discriminate; let’s say the person thinks ‘this apple is smoother than the pencil’ or 'the red of this apple is just about the same as this red pencil’. We have engaged some discrimination or comparison that occurs ( even a child can hold options on one thing being smoother or the same color as the other). In each case we take note that there is a perceiver, the method of perception (seeing, or touching, or smelling, etc.) and there is the object that is perceived ( the apple or pencil). Yet in these examples the ‘I’ that is the perceiver is the intellect. It serves as being ‘I’.

    What's the point ?
    Prior to this intellect there is something, and it is Self. One could say that this ‘I’ just mentioned ( intellect acting as 'I') is an object of the Self. That is, of all the things you think are very close to you as a thought, a feeling, etc. are also ~objects~ to the Self. Just when you think there is nothing behind ‘I’ , as the final stop in the progression of being ‘you’, there is something that is more refined than ‘I’ and that is Self. Some call Self the ultimate subject, as nothing can take it ( the Self) to be an object - as if it were a pencil or the apple just mentioned.
    So when I talked in brief about
    śūkṣma śarīa ( the subtle body) and all the moving parts of 17, 19, etc. components, the Self is not a part of these as all these ~components~ are external to Self - one could say they all are potential objects of the Self.

    But what is it ?
    If you read the paragraph again you will see I called out perception and awareness and cognition. Note we as humans say, I was aware of that,
    or I perceived a color, or smell, or taste, or what ever sense you are using ( including a thought); all these perceptions/cognitions are applying awareness in a direction. Yet the source of this is pure awareness, Self. It is pure consciousness, this is Self. Svāmī lakṣman-jū said the Self is like ākāśa ( pure space) filled with consciousness.

    You can see why this simple definition makes sense. If it is ~like~ pure space it is unbounded and with no constraints, yet it is filled with something, awareness itself. Seems simple, yet defining awareness takes some doing. We talk more of what it does than what it is,and will leave that for another time as speculation comes in.

    Yet just like space it does not announce itself! This seems to be one of the sticking points for people to ‘get’. For those looking for Self, they are looking for some-thing, some feeling, something special, some anouncement. Yet the Self is simple , pure, stainless, unbounded , it does not announce itSelf. You see if you experience some dazzle or bright light that then is an object and not the final subject of everything, the Self.

    Think of it this way ( as many use this example).
    • A movie is occurring on the movie screen. We see all the colors, all the movements on the screen, yet it all occurs on a white screen , that allows or ‘shows’ the movie. Like that, Self is that pure screen . It is something. Yet many of us are looking for It as something on the screen because we are conditioned to look for movement, color, action to compare and contrast.
    • The Self allows the field of action to occur. Think of this. Can anything ever happen, ever, without existence first? Self is pure existence; yet this existence is something, just as pure space is something. But people argue , hey space is nothing! I say you are right. It is no-thing! There is no-thing in space, as it is perfectly pure no-thing. Yet without space, tell me one thing that can exist out side of space? Even a thought which is close to no-thing still requires the ~space~ of consciousness to exist.
    • Go into an absolutely dark/black empty, soundless room. What do you perceive ? Nothing ( no-thing) - not in sound, sight, smell, etc. That in and of itself is a perception.


    So, one may leave with the impression that nothing occurs with the re-recognition of Self ( Self-realization). This is not the case , so says vasugupta-ji in his spandakārikā-s:

    तमधिष्ठातृभावेन स्वभावमवलोकयन्।
    स्मयमान इवास्ते यस्तस्येयं कुसृतिः कुतः॥११

    tamadhiṣṭhātṛbhāvena svabhāvamavalokayan|
    smayamāna ivāste yastasyeyaṁ kusṛtiḥ kutaḥ||11

    this says,
    when at that time ( or at that stage) you ( or he who abides - tasyeyaṁ āste) perceives the nature of Self (adhiṣṭhātṛbhāvena svabhāvam ) you will be wonderstuck (smayamāna iva).

    One must ask who then is doing the perceiving?

    इतिशिवं
    iti śivaṁ


    1. Ken Weber – wrote the Forward section of Talks with Rāmaṇa Maharṣi

    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  2. #12
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    Re: prasaṅkhyāna (repetition)

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté


    I wrote in the post above,
    When ‘I’ change from happy, to sad it went from one thing to another ( happy to sad), yet this ‘I’ only shifted from one cognition to another. Another example: ( and I think you will see the point). I hold an apple in my hands I perceive the apple via my eyes as an object; I then put it down and pick up a pencil.
    There is a very revealing thing that occurs when one's perception\awareness goes from one object to another ( even a thought is an ~object~). In the example I offered an apple and a pencil.

    My attention is on the apple, but then I switch it to the pencil ( this too is quite interesting, this intent of switching from one thing to another, but will leave it for later). There is an in-between time of cognition #1 the apple and the switch to cognition #2 the pencil.
    Not many pay attention to this, but there is a small-small gap in-between ( madhya, middle most). What is there? It is pure awareness, just awareness by itself , undirected ~ as yet~ going to another object. This gap (madhya) is there between any two perceptions ( thoughts, touch, sightings) - here you can find this pure awareness. We even find it between wake and dream, dream and sleep - see post 6 & 8 here if there is interest:
    http://hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?14819-Self-Enquiry-vs-Open-Awareness-confusion&p=130407#post130407 .




    इतिशिवं
    iti śivaṁ
    Last edited by yajvan; 18 May 2017 at 09:00 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  3. #13
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    Re: prasaṅkhyāna (repetition)

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    from post 11 above,
    this says,
    when at that time ( or at that stage) you ( or he who abides - tasyeyaṁ āste) perceives the nature of Self (adhiṣṭhātṛbhāvena svabhāvam ) you will be wonderstuck (smayamāna iva).

    One must ask who then is doing the perceiving?
    I am hoping on reading post 11 a question comes to mind: if the intellect is in fact an ~ object~ when compared to Self, and Self is the final stop, there is nothing beyond or behind Self to view it ( Self) as an ~ object~ who or what then perceives Self for enlightenment to occur? What is perceiving Self to be wonder-struct ?

    This re-enforces the notion that Self cannot be held as an object of perception like a pencil or apple , to be inspected. Yet consider this: Self in and of itself is pure awareness. This pure awareness fuels ( or is ) all other awareness ; the wise call it the rays from Self that take-on the form or enable the intellect, mind, etc. to function. Even if one cares to say I know the Self, this 'I' is nothing other than Self ( itSelf) as 'I'.
    So, this Self being awareness in fact has the capacity to know itSelf ... it needn't depend on any other function to know its Self ( by itself). Why ? Because it is completely independent - it depends on nothing ( no thing) for any thing. This was offered in post 10 above via the term
    svātantrya1 .

    Now this is supported ( the Self realizing, revealing 'vivṛ' itSelf) in 2 places, the kaṭhopaniṣat (kaṭha upaniṣad) and muṇḍaka upaniṣad 3.2.3. Let me point out the verse from the kaṭhopaniṣat 1.2.23 :

    यमेवैष वृणुते तेन लभ्यः
    तस्यैष आत्मा विवृणुते तनूं स्वाम्
    ॥ २३
    yamevaiṣa vṛṇute tena labhyaḥ
    tasyaiṣa ātmā vivṛṇute tanūṁ svām || 23

    pending how on translates the verse as there are some subtleties that bring out even more knowledge, the core message is (the) Self reveals (vivṛ) itSelf to whom it chooses. It also can be read as he chooses Self to whom the Self has chosen. Said in more ~ street terms~ , the one pursuing the Self is that one that the Self has chosen (already) to do so. This in many arenas is called His grace or kindness, favor (anugraha).

    For those that enjoy more connections in the matter, ādi śaṅkara-ji’s commentary on the īśavāsya upaniṣad 16th śloka says by the grace of thy Self I see that most auspicious form. I will let the reader look up this śloka and make the connections for their discovery.

    इतिशिवं
    iti śivaṁ

    1. svātantrya - independence. It is said (in kaśmir śaivism) This Supreme independent (svātantrya) state of God Consciousness (caitanya) is the form. But the form of what? It is the 'form' of everything. This implies that solid ( body) or spiritual ( non-body) , material or non-material however subtle, has this form. It is the essence of everything, and this is the Supreme, Brahman.



    Last edited by yajvan; 25 May 2017 at 10:10 AM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  4. #14
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    Re: prasaṅkhyāna (repetition)

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    I wrote above,

    So, with that said, this post is aligned to the adhikāriṇaḥ pramiti jananko vedaḥ ( one who is eligible for this knowledge)
    We are looking at the adhikāriṇ ( the eligible one) just for a moment. It is the person with ārurukṣu or desire to rise or ascend or advance ( some say step by step).
    I
    n the śrīmad bhāgavad gītā 6.3 verse below it is call out by kṛṣṇaḥ-jī as ārurukṣormuneryogaṁ or yogaṁ ārurukṣu muni –
    that muni that wishes to reside in yoga (to ascend, step-in are my words just used here, not kṛṣṇaḥ -jī’s) karma (action) is said to be (ucyate ) the means (kāraṇam). (This is not the end of the śloka but just the part I wish to use for the moment.)


    आरुरुक्षोर्मुनेर्योगं कर्म कारणमुच्यते।
    योगारूढस्य तस्यैव शमः कारणमुच्यते॥३

    ārurukṣormuneryogaṁ karma kāraṇamucyate|
    yogārūḍhasya tasyaiva śamaḥ kāraṇamucyate||3

    this then is quite revealing ( for me). I have informed you on many-a-post that the mischief of actions ( too many actions and their binding influence) got us into the place we’re are at. Stuck in ignorance. Here we are told action is said to be the means... so , what’s up? It is those actions that are more refined and we would call it abhyāsa or continuous practice, continuous endeavor. It is abhyāsa, skill in action.

    What then is this 'karma (action) is said to be ( ucyate ) the means (kāraṇam)', this skill ?
    • right actions – those that are life supporting ( some like to classify these as yama and niyama yet too can be called out as the 4 gate keepers1)
    • abhyāsa ( practice) in the form of upāyae ( method or means) i.e. sādhana = upāya = a means by where one reaches their aim, can be looked at in 3 ways:
      • śāmbhavopāya (śāmbha + upāya) - this is considered the highest means
      • śāktopāya - this is considered the middle means
      • āṇavopāya - this is considered entry level
        • there is one more that is called anupāya or no upāya, which is above the 3 just mentioned; and the aspirant observes that nothing need be done, just be as you are. We can leave that for another time.

    Now the beauty & epiphany regarding these means (upāyae or kāraṇam2) that I am coming to really appreciate is the following: These ~means~ are none other than His (the Supreme’s) energy or śakti to begin with i.e. His śakti has become the upāyae . Once I read that things began to fall into place:

    • śāmbhavopāya (śāmbha + upāya) – is His energy of will
    • śāktopāya – His energy of knowledge
    • āṇavopāya – His energy of action


    So , one can see the entry level āṇavopāya – His energy of action is aligned to the verse above: ārurukṣormuneryogaṁ karma kāraṇamucyate |
    That is , to rise-up to step-up and reside in yoga ( union). To step-up can also mean to ‘step to the next' upāyae listed above.

    This is in fact true as one upāya cultures one to be fit for the next upāya. This aligns to the theme of this post. The aspirant becomes the eligible one (adhikāriṇ) by practice. You see in the final analysis all humans have eligibility to their own nature ( Being) , no passports are required and this is confirmed by kṛṣṇaḥ-jī’s own words - karma (action) is said to be (ucyate) the means (kāraṇam); yet I have in brief offered that it is not any old action, but a more refined skill and intent in actions that are expressed as abhyāsa ( practice).

    In one sentence it is : upāya उपाय - a method, technique, way of doing delivers one to upeya उपेय that which is aimed at.

    But wait a minute yajvan, you have switched from śrīmad bhāgavad gītā to some other scripture ! Yes, this is true. I used the wisdom found in kaśmir śaivism ( trika śāstra ) to explain this sloka in more detail. But let's switch back to the śrīmad bhāgavad gītā ( chapter 7) for one moment for comparison.
    puṇyo gandhaḥ pṛthivyāṁ ca tejaścāsmi vibhāvasau|
    jīvanaṁ sarvabhūteṣu tapaścāsmi tapasviṣu||9||

    This verse says,
    I am (asmi) the sweet (punyaḥ) fragrance (gandhaḥ) of the earth (pṛthivyām), the brightness (tejas) in fire (vibhāvasau), life (jīvanam) in all (sarva) beings (bhūteṣu) and (ca) tapas in the sādhakāḥ (tapasviṣu)||9 ( my term of
    sādhakāḥ is used )

    Here kṛṣṇaḥ-jī informs us He too is none other than the practice (tapas) of the aspirant. Hence this tapas = upāya = śakti of the Supreme = kṛṣṇaḥ-jī.
    The knowledge aligns from what is offered in vedānta ( code for śrīmad bhāgavad gītā) and with trika śāstra ( code for kaśmir śaivism).

    इतिशिवं
    iti śivaṁ

    1. 4 gate keepers - In the yoga vasișțha ( also known as yogavasișțharāmāyaṇa) , vasișțha-ji informs śrī rāmaḥ , there are 4 gatekeepers at the entrance to the realm of enlightenment: self-control, spirit of inquiry, contentment, and good company.
    2. kāraṇam - instrument

    Last edited by yajvan; 04 June 2017 at 11:25 AM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  5. #15
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    Re: prasaṅkhyāna (repetition)

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté


    from post 14 above I offered,
    In one sentence it is : upāya उपाय - a method, technique, way of doing delivers one to upeya उपेय that which is aimed at.
    If we look to the 4th chapter (called jñānayoga),
    34th verse of the śrīmad bhāgavad gītā, we find the following:
    tadviddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā|
    upadekṣyanti te jñānaṁ jñāninastattvadarśinaḥ||34

    ... the jñāninaḥ ( or the realized) will initiate you (upadekṣyanti te)

    There is much more to this verse and in my humble estimation is one of the most concealed and insightful verses in the śrīmad bhāgavad gītā; yet many to most have passed it up , as I did for many-a-year. I will only offer one part of the śloka (verse); to address it in full should be done in the uttara form here on HDF.

    The term upadeṣa ( found in the dictionary as upadeśa) in the verse (upadekṣyanti) literally means instruction, initiation. Typically one is initiated into a upāya उपाय - a method, technique. Yet there is more here than meets the eye.
    • upadeśa = upa + deśa
      • upa = to get nearer and nearer; placed side-by-side
      • deśa is rooted √ in diś and this term = ‘in the proper place’; one’s own home, is another definition.


    We have a better understanding of initiation (upadeśa) and method (upāya): It is that method that places nearer (side-by-side) into one’s proper place, one’s own home. Yet what is ‘into one’s proper place’? It is the fullness of one’s own Being. It is none other than turīya1 or the 4th .

    The 3 means called out in post 14 above are to place one in one’s true home. It is this condition that faces inward.
    Svāmī lakṣman-jū comments on it as pūrṇatūmukhyī daśā - the condition (daśā) of facing (mukhya) fullness/wholeness (pūrṇa). That fullness is called Self, Being, god consciousness, brahman, etc.
    Yet one is facing inward, next to , side-by-side this fullness via the practice of experiencing samādhi (pure awareness, even-ness). When it is both inside and outside ( code for eyes open or closed) this turīya swells to become turyātīta or ‘beyond’ turīya. Then one resides in the Self-referral condition.
    One’s Self is never lost. That is why it is called Self-referral. The Self-experience, the Self-frame-of-reference is never lost. The silence of the Self is always present , even in wake-dream-sleep.

    This condition from another school’s point of view is the re-recognition of one’s true Being, one’s core nature (pratyabhijñā). I can offer a few ideas on this school for an upcoming post.

    इतिशिवं
    iti śivaṁ


    1. turīya -( some write turya) or the 4th. It is called the 4th for some very simplistic reasons. It is by conversation we talk of wake-dream-sleep states ( or avasta-s); well the 4th one is therefore named turīya, from the term catúrya meaning the 4th. Unlike wake-dream-sleep these are self explanatory by the term itself, yet turīya is quite a different story. For now let’s call it pure awareness, some like to call it transcendental consciousness, others call It Being, still others call it Self.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  6. #16
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    Re: prasaṅkhyāna (repetition)

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté


    I wrote the following in post 14 above,
    this then is quite revealing ( for me). I have informed you on many-a-post that the mischief of actions ( too many actions and their binding influence) got us into the place we’re are at. Stuck in ignorance.

    Why did I say that? You will find many posts here on action and its influences. Yet the crisp insight is offered in the 3rd chapter ( called karmayoga as you would expect) 37th verse of the śrīmad bhāgavad gītā. It says the following ( the actual verse in saṁskṛt is offered just for my practice)

    श्रीभगवानुवाच
    काम एष क्रोध एष रजोगुणसमुद्भवः।
    महाशनो महापाप्मा विद्ध्येनमिह वैरिणम्
    ॥३७
    śrībhagavānuvāca
    kāma eṣa krodha eṣa rajoguṇasamudbhavaḥ|
    mahāśano mahāpāpmā viddhyenamiha vairiṇam||37

    this says,
    śrī bhagavān uvāca ( or the blessed or most adorable Lord said), It is desire, it is anger, born of rajo-guṇa all consuming and most evil (mahāpāpmā) Know this to be the enemy here on earth.
    We know that rajoguṇa is part of the traiguṇya1 ( pertaining to the 3 guṇa-s). Rajoguṇa is responsible for motion and actions ( it spurs activity). Desire and anger is one expression of rajoguṇa in action. When a desire is fulfilled some joy is experienced and makes an impression. We like this joy and so we want to do it again and again ( this is the crux of conditioning). Yet when a desire is unfulfilled there leaves the residue of anger (krodha).
    Now this krodha is anger but call also be passion, wrath. Some call it out also as the child of lobha and nikṛti ( greed and dishonesty)
    For more on this, consider the following: http://hindudharmaforums.com/showthr...ighlight=lobha

    Anger also spurs us to more action: ‘how will I attain that thing I wanted! I didn’t get it the first time, what then do I need to do to capture this ( object, feeling, etc) '. You see, krodha upsets the apple cart and this is why kṛṣṇaḥ-jī says it is rajo-guṇa that is the enemy here on earth. Anger creates the unbalance, and desire looks to get that balance via attainment back in place. We are told that this push and pull of the mind, intellect and ego is what overshadows (the)Self.

    One can see how an individual is spurred to action... in both ways; by successfully completing\satisfying a desire or by unfilling a desire. In both cases one either wants to do it again ( oh , that was pleasurable ) or wants to achieve the unfulfilled desire ( oh! I didn’t make the team, I didn’t get that new car, I didn’t get the date I wanted...I must try harder!).

    Now to the jijñāsu (desirous of knowing Self) this is an obstacle. Why so? The next verse tell us:

    धूमेनाव्रियते वह्निर्यथादर्शो मलेन च।
    यथोल्बेनावृतो गर्भस्तथा तेनेदमावृतम्
    ॥३८॥
    dhūmenāvriyate vahniryathādarśo malena ca|
    yatholbenāvṛto garbhastathā tenedamāvṛtam||38

    as fire is covered by smoke, as a mirror by dust , as an embryo is covered by amnion ( or membrane) this is covered by that (tenedam or tena +idam ).

    So, one then needs to know what ‘this’ (idam) is and 'that' (tena) which is called out. It is discriminative knowledge (jñānam) that is covered (āvṛtam) by that. Now ‘that’ being called has the form (rūpeṇa) of kāma or desire. This is all from the 39th verse. Hence
    • discriminative knowledge (jñānam) = knowledge of the Self.
    • it is covered (āvṛtam) restrained by that = kāma or desire.

    I will write it the way my teacher translates the 39th verse:
    Wisdom ( i.e. jñānam) is veiled by this insatiable flame (duspūreṇa analena) of desire (kāma) which is a constant enemy of the wise , oh son of kuntī (arjuna)

    Kṛṣṇaḥ -jī is laying the facts out before arjuna based upon arjuna’s initial question found in the 36th verse: What impels man to sin ?

    So, many a person i.e. the jijñāsu thinks, I will just stop having desires! Simple as that, and all will be well. Well for those that have tried this and failed again and again, a simple ‘I will not have any desires ‘ is a tall order to fulfill. That is why post 14 and 15 above were created. There needs to be some strategy some method - in one word niyamya needs to be considered for the senses ( indriyāṇi), mind (manaḥ) and intellect (buddhi). This is where this desire (kāma) and wrath (krodha) roam.
    What is this niyamya ? It is the introduction of, and establishing ‘law and order’ within this realm of being human. How is that done? That is reviewed by śrī bhagavān from verse 40 to 43 and will suggest the HDF Reader take a look.

    इतिशिवं
    iti śivaṁ

    1. traiguṇya – the grammar structure here is interesting. The suffix ‘ya’ is a secondary suffix called taddhita pratyaya. When doing this triguṇa becomes traiguṇya , then meaning ‘belonging to the 3 guṇa-s ‘ or regarding the 3 guna-s. This falls into a part of grammar that studies aggregate word formations ( there’s 5 types) of verbs and nouns creating compound words and the like.
    Last edited by yajvan; 08 June 2017 at 10:32 AM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  7. #17
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    Re: prasaṅkhyāna (repetition)

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté


    SELF + ego = jīva ____________-or-
    Pure Being/Pure Consciousness (SELF) +
    ahaṃkāra1 (ego) =
    jīva ( the living personality within limits )

    If I take away
    ahaṁkāra, I then get SELF = SELF.

    What if I take away SELF to this equation? Is that even possible ? SELF is the light that shines through the ego to give it the appearance of an entity or internal organ. It, ( ahaṁkāra) in and of itself cannot rely on itself for its own light. It is a borrower.



    इतिशिवं
    iti śivaṁ

    1.
    ahaṁkāra - conception of one's individuality; the making of 's'elf ( small 's') or SELF within boundaries.


    Last edited by yajvan; 07 June 2017 at 06:21 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  8. #18
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    Re: prasaṅkhyāna (repetition)

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~

    namasté

    from post 17 above,
    SELF + ego = jīva
    And I wrote back in post 4 above,
    The notion of I + John , let’s just look atI
    One really needs to focus on what is offered here as it can slip through the cracks of understanding, hence my suggestion for re-reading it a few times.
    I need to take apart ‘I’. From the quoted paragraph above I said “ ‘I’ is = to awareness and that is Absolutely internal and subjective”. Well sort of. This ‘I’ according to padmapāda-ji1 can also be sub-divided for our inspection. Yet one will say, how is that possible it is just one thing ? This is my experience, one thing! Let’s take a look.

    ‘I’ is known as ahaṅkāra ( some spell ahaṁkāra), one’s individuality, ego. Yet this ahaṁkāra is tightly coupled with pure awareness. So much so that one cannot discern the difference. It is experienced as one thing. This pure awareness is non-different than Self, Being.
    We now can make another observation ...
    When one says I ( am) + John it is this part of the equation SELF + ego = jīva
    Most to all of us take ego to be I , and John as jīva.

    Where is SELF? It is always there... it is the light, svyaṁprakāśa3, that allows I + John to be, yet we do not have this as our purview, our point of reference.
    You see, this SELF is so Self-sufficient so independent (svātantrya1) it needs nothing to exist. It is existence itself – totally Self-sufficient. Yet for the human living within limits I , and John is dependent on every thing e.g. food, clothing, maintenance of the body, etc.
    Even who we 'think' we are, we are dependent. We think we’re smart, well that means there must be someone less smart; tall, then some one must be short; a manager? there must be something to manage; a husband? there must be a wife. The point is, for our limited view of ourselves and all we think we are ( i.e. John) , its all relative to other things around, above and below us.

    But SELF? It has no limits, nor boundaries of any sort ( ever). We as ‘John’ come and go. What comes and goes? The relative portion ( ego and what ever name we give to jīva); but SELF ? it does not come and go. Why so? Because it was never born. You are That.

    स य एषोऽणिमैतदात्म्यमिदँ सर्वं तत्सत्यँ स आत्मा तत्त्वमसि श्वेतकेतो
    sa ya eṣo'ṇimaitadātmyamidam̐ sarvaṃ tatsatyam̐ sa ātmā tattvamasi śvetaketo2

    this briefly says,
    ... you are That śvetaketu

    If a person who has been taught (informed/made aware of) tattvamasi and does not understand its meaning, it is because he does not recognize the meaning of the term tvam (you) – sureśvarācārya , see post 3 above


    इतिशिवं
    iti śivaṁ

    1. svātantrya - independence. It is said (in kaśmir śaivism) This Supreme independent (svātantrya) state of God Consciousness (caitanya) is the form. But the form of what? It is the 'form' of everything. This implies that solid ( body) or spiritual ( non-body) , material or non-material however subtle, has this form. It is the essence of everything, and this is the Supreme, Brahman.
    2. from the chandogyopaniṣat (chandogya upaniṣad) 6th chapter ,6.8.7 & 8, where uddālaka āruṇi instructs his son śvetaketu on the nature of brahman.
    3. svyaṁprakāśa – see post 5 above
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

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