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Thread: Concept of God

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by nekozuki
    Obviously, you don't watch the Discovery Channel or Animal Planet and believe me I've learned a lot more from those two channels than the biology classroom because the textbooks aren't updated with last year's finds.
    Nekozuki - you're cracking me up! That's the best laugh I've had for ages.

    You're telling a highly respected saddhu who represents the tradition that made scientific discoveries about 5,000 years ago which the West are only now just catching up with, to watch the Discovery Channel! This is priceless stuff!

    Look, I'm assuming that you claim that you're a Hindu. If that is the case, then you might do well to go back to your own source literature, the Vedas. There you will learn that your ancient forefathers knew far more about the natural universe than the West will ever know.

    This is because the West has set up its "science" in an objective way - in other words, it rules out the observer from the experiment.

    The ancient rishis learned a lot from studying nature, and they put these findings into the Vedas. But they also learned even more from going within themselves to the "inner universe" that is within all of us, and seeing nature from that perspective.

    The rishis who compiled the Vedic teachings put themselves (or their Self) in the middle of the scientific enquiry, rather than cutting themselves (or their Self) out of it. That gave them a much more holistic, and therefore, truer view of the universe than the Western scientist has, peering down his microscope in a laboratory.

    By this more holistic method of enquiry, the Vedic sages discovered so much about astronomy, astrology, natural medicine and they even discovered mathematics - the same mathematics is used all around the world today and called 'mathematics' because it was first taught in 'maths', or yogic hermitages.

    And especially as a health worker, you would do very well to read the works of Dhantanvari in the Atharva Veda: http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/av/index.htm

    Dhantavari was the discoverer of ayurvedic medicine, and all preventative (so-called complementary) medicine today is based on ayurveda.

    By using the objective, scientific approach to medicine, the West has once again got it wrong. Never before has so much money been spent on healthcare in the UK and the US, and never before have the hospitals of those countries been full to overflowing with the ill and weak.

    Your mission - if you choose to accept it - should be to read Dhantanvari and then start converting your healthcare colleagues to the advantages of ayurveda.

    You will learn far more that way, and by meditating on what you read, imho, than you'll ever get from the Discovery Channel!
    Gill

  2. #22
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    Then where's the fossil record of this common ancestor? Yes, you will learn more through the Vedas and meditation and so forth, but we're talking about something completely physical. In my personal opinion I think we came from our own species because if we came directly from apes there wouldn't be any. I would like to go into ayurveda medicine but here I'm not going to make a living off of it unless you can give me some insight about it.

    And I have no idea who I'm chatting with on here, it's the internet. I don't like arguing evolution on a spiritual Hindu site so how about we drop it since opinions are clashing.

    But I do agree that Western science sucks All it can create are materialistic things. Their theories change constantly.
    Last edited by nekozuki; 17 April 2006 at 06:58 AM.

  3. #23

    Aat

    Science is cool. Math is cooler. Spirituality can be coolest to absurd~depends on the version#.

    Western sceince doesn't suck~but how it has become the tool of market forces to enhance our physical comfort only (most of the time) sucks. ~S.A.D.H.U is cool for example (ok he does suck from time to time).

    Btw, Aquatic Ape theory is much older than genome project. This wikipeda site has some history~but frankly I also don't find it too convincing.

    Fianlly nothing wrong in discussing contemporary things in a hindu site~hinduism is not a closed box dogma.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquatic_ape_theory
    http://www.aquaticape.org/

  4. #24
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    I just wish Western science would find a way to make better space shuttles so humans can finally land on Mars, and it won't be just talk after that.
    Last edited by nekozuki; 17 April 2006 at 12:44 PM.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singhi Kaya
    Dear Ramkish, can you please site some evidence why Praatyaaksha, anumaana are not valid path of God realization?

    Needless to say, it makes no sense to me.
    I am not very sure whether I am exceeding my limits in discussing this topic here. But as I did to special few, I want to repeat it here too.

    Maharishi Veda Vyasa has made Vedanta Sutras. It is popularly known as Brahma Sutras. (Discussions on Brahma Sutras in public forum is not encouraged but I trust it is no banned, hence I proceed further)

    Many Aacharyas made commentaries to these Brahma Sutra. In this the very first says

    1. Let us, then, ponder God
    2. From whom the creation happened
    3. Scriptures alone forms the source of this knowledge (Knowledge of god)

    I had given you meaning for first three sutras.

    As Rishi said, Scriptures alone are the source of knowledge that leads to understand Lord, thus I said, Pratyaksha, anumaana are not valid knowledge to realise lord.

    This is further corroborated by Katopanishad ananya prokete gatiyaatra naasti - Self learning will not lead to eternity thus indicating self learning will not lead to knowledge of lord. (Shankara Bhashya on this is different, but people who read shankara Bhashya should read bhashya of Madhavaacharya on the same before coming to conclusion)

    Let me give you an analogy.

    Many say to me that this is a complex universe and this can only be created by Lord, hence lord exists. This is a combination of pratyaksha - see the world, and anumaana - concluding lord exits.

    If we accept it as true, then we also know, sages like Viswamitra created a similar world like thing exclusively for one man, (for that fact, all brahma rishis are bestowed with such powers of creating universe), then we have to conclude that sage viswamitra is god for he created the world. As this is not true, concluding on basis of pratyaksha and anumaana might lead one to wrong conclusions, hence it is barred

    Similarly with tadoore tadvantike people know the object that is far off cannot be near and vice versa. Logic gives not way for this. Many say, we have air which is far off as well as near, but I like to point out, beyond atmosphere where is air to indicate it is far off. For this entire earth, atmosphere i.e. air is only near but not far off. nature of lord should be same for all hence logic, induction, deduction are applicable to few but not for whole hence it fails utterly.

    Hope I am clear, else buzz me
    Last edited by ramkish42; 17 April 2006 at 01:46 PM.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Singhi Kaya
    I believe you neko, we came from a fish of some sort to start with
    This is evolution

    1. Macha - Fish - Pisces
    2. Kurma - Tortoise - Amphibians
    3. Varaha - Pig Vertebrates starts here
    4. Narasimha - Combination of man and beast
    5. Vaamana - Homo sapien

    From here all homo sapiens and proceeds with political theory

    6. Parasu rama - Might is right - (this might resemble communism idea - killing rich and powerful)
    7. Shri Rama - Conquest of rich and polite people
    8. Bala Rama - Conquest by polite people, need not to be rich enough
    9. Shri Krishna - conquest by politically correct people

    Further
    10. Shri Kalki - we are yet to occur, hence let us not comment on it - could be restoring/creating golden ages

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by nekozuki
    Then where's the fossil record of this common ancestor? Yes, you will learn more through the Vedas and meditation and so forth, but we're talking about something completely physical. In my personal opinion I think we came from our own species because if we came directly from apes there wouldn't be any. I would like to go into ayurveda medicine but here I'm not going to make a living off of it unless you can give me some insight about it.

    And I have no idea who I'm chatting with on here, it's the internet. I don't like arguing evolution on a spiritual Hindu site so how about we drop it since opinions are clashing.

    But I do agree that Western science sucks All it can create are materialistic things. Their theories change constantly.
    The problem is physical, emprical, analogical and calculated science.

    This is clear case of perception - Pratyaksha. As our scriptures says perceptions is primary source of knowledge and we stop much with this and few occasions we stretch to logic - deduction and induction - Anumaana. When we reach this stage, many controversies arises, thus we do not move further.

    This stumbles the entire movement. To make a break through either we have jump from first to last, or quickly pass the rest by.

    When it comes to texts we often see, old is surpassed, old texts are replaced by new books - so on and so forth. Hence, we also say old books like vedas and its ideas are wrong for we direly want to replace it with something new ( in this case, we are not sure which is that new thing ). However, I would like to point out few old things which will never be old even years pass by,

    1. Marriage
    2. Our relations - father, mother, wife husband and love for them
    3. money
    4. Food - we eat - probably i think this is oldest practise
    5. breath and sleep - this is old as food itself but when we understand protozoans age allocation is dubious

    These old ideas or practises never fades.

    We relate Vedas and other hindu texts with modern - erasable old ideas but not with the above.

    I think it all depends on what you realte and how you understand. In confusion, it is better to seek a learned guru.

    Jai shree krishna

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by ramkish42
    10. Shri Kalki - we are yet to occur, hence let us not comment on it - could be restoring/creating golden ages
    Shri Kalki...comes to.... Destroy Islam ...damn I'm obsessed
    Last edited by Singhi Kaya; 17 April 2006 at 02:28 PM.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by nekozuki
    I just wish Western science would find a way to make better space shuttles so humans can finally land on Mars, and it won't be just talk after that.
    That was a good one..LOL

  10. #30
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    I know that Kalki may not come for thousands of years now but could it have any connection to 2012. According to Mayan legend we are in the fourth world (we're in the fourth yuga I believe) in 2012 we will enter the fifth world? Am I just thinking funny?

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