Concept of God

[nekozuki]

Okay I'm getting really sick of the Evolution vs. Creation debate, it's getting old lol.

[coolbodhi]

Question is very nice and easy to raise such question.

My response

1. Sages had determined many ways to understand a subject. Our perceptors classified them in three ways. They are Praatyaaksha, anumaana and Saastra. Presence of god can be determined only by Saastra and not by other two means.

Who decided that god can only be determined by Saastra? What is Saastra anyway? I will take an educated guess and say that it means scripture. Am I correct?

Now, if scripture is the only way to understand a subject as you say, this raises more questions.

Which scripture? There are many and to make things even more difficult some are contradicting others.

Is god a subject to be understood or do we feel him like we feel the cool breeze but never see him?

As you are trying to understand lord by anumaana this is not allowing you to reach him. The basic idea is this - Praatyaksha and anumaana are limited and finite hence such things cannot refer to some thing that is infinite. Let me give you a practical example

But reason and the ability to comprehend is all I have. All I have are my senses. Yes, they are finite but that's all I can count on. Why did god give us limited abilities if we can not understand him with such things?

Why must I rely on scripture? I have already dropped my scripture from another religion because using reason I found it to be opposite of my experience. What good is your scripture and which one?

I want to you make a infinite number by adding any number continously. all mathematicians will say as long as you add finite numbers you will get only finite answers. Suppose you try adding one infinity to anything immediately you will get infinity. This infinity is greatest knowledge - knowledge of soul, god and their relationship which can be obtained only by infinite source which Saastra. As Isha ritely points out

poornamataha poornamitam poornaath poornamadhayasyathe
poornasya poornamaadaaya poornamevaava sishyathe

Infinity emanates from infinity

You call scripture infinite source, on what basis? Isn't the scriptures written by humans that had the same abilities like you and I?

2. Now to answer you question directly.

God has bestowed super powers on you. It is just hidden. Why it is hidden? if you fall back and become mischievous there is no point in giving you super powers.

Why would I become mischievous especially if I am supposed to be part of god? Oh yes, I am a conditioned soul but then again why am I conditioned to begin with? The point of being conditioned is, what? Does it please god to see souls in conditioned life?

These super powers are terms as Asta Siddhi which you can obtain by performing different duties as prescribed by scriptures. This super power has another form called gnaana which you can get by reading many scriptures, being in satsanga , by loving god.

What is asta siddhi and what are the duties I can perform to get it?
How does one love god a thing that I have not seen?

This super power has another name called Yoga which you can practise. This super power has another name called aatma which you should realise by scriptures or all by yourself by abstaining from preyas and concenrating on sreyas. There are so many super powers like this

Have you attained any of these super powers that you talk about or are you just spitting out what you read in scriptures?

Pls do not deny your soul what it rightly deserves

what's a soul and how do I find it and more importantly how do I find out what it rightly deserves? Did you read in a scripture what a soul is and what it righly deserves or do acutally have an experience and you have realised or found it?

[ramkish42]

Who decided that god can only be determined by Saastra? What is Saastra anyway? I will take an educated guess and say that it means scripture. Am I correct?

Now, if scripture is the only way to understand a subject as you say, this raises more questions.

Which scripture? There are many and to make things even more difficult some are contradicting others.

Is god a subject to be understood or do we feel him like we feel the cool breeze but never see him?

Welcome after a break Cool.

One thing I want to make clear at this junture, as I am already in a debate, I cannot afford to have another debate running parallely, hence do not count on me if your intentions are debating.

For clarifications I may respond or I may not, depending on time

Regarding who - Great Guru Maharishi Veda Vyasa, whom God has authorised to classify Vedas and puraanaas

Regarding Saastra - Fundamental scripture in general. For Hindus, it is Veda, Itihaasas and Puraanaas. For Muslim, it is Koran, Hadiths, Tafsirs and Fatwas. so on

Regarding Educated Guess - As long as you can make an infite guess, you can. But with finite mind, you can take only finite guess and not infite guess, which the finite science as acknowledged

Regarding feeling and subject of understanding - First you must acknowledge the presence before feeling it and understand it. To acknowledge the presence of it, you have to depend on Saastras - scriptures. Once you know what is god, then you can feel and understand it. Before Newton spoke about gravitational force, no one ever felt of talking about it including great Socrates and Archemides. Because you know newton law of gravity, you can feel it. If newton never been here, and gravity not yet discovered, you could still cannot corroborate why things in space stay at their own space and orbit

But reason and the ability to comprehend is all I have. All I have are my senses. Yes, they are finite but that's all I can count on. Why did god give us limited abilities if we can not understand him with such things?

The idea of god is verily a child like play in creation. If god created you for praising him verily he would had given all means and abilities to know him. When a child plays it makes it own rules, Static objects fly for the child and dynamic toys stay at one place. Highly dynamic objects are ignored by child - these rules are made by me but child wants to play whatever it feel like. You make a rule - child will object for it

Creation is child like game for god. As our scientific mind has objects the very game of child and dispenses it for ignorance, we miss to see the bliss of being a part of it. How to experience the bliss - set aside the thought that ignores it

The problem I can see, how you can count on your senses. All that with our senses we can count on is a reason for happening once a event had happened. Can the same reason help us in saying what is going to happen for sure. Point like would like to make is, we cannot count on our senses

Why must I rely on scripture? I have already dropped my scripture from another religion because using reason I found it to be opposite of my experience. What good is your scripture and which one?

Only reason you can apply before dropping a scripture whether it matches with standard of humanity. If a scriptures allows one to steal from others, kill others, intoxicate, destory people who do not concur, allows insulting women, attaches much importance with materialistic views for sex and money, such scriptures should be dropped.

I am sure what you dropped and why you dropped, but the fact is it is irrelevant to me as long the above rule is applied.

Some stretch this rule by giving the chance to the scripture to substantiate its view point

I am not asking you to go with my scripture, as you said you can educated, suggest you study some material and check for yourself. Once humanitarian cause is applauded, then we will discuss on philosophy

You call scripture infinite source, on what basis? Isn't the scriptures written by humans that had the same abilities like you and I?

Scriptures when considered all scriptures as a lot, it becomes infinite and verily few scriptures has infinite divine source, but not all scriptures. Many books are written by humans.

But abilities like you and I is the questionable thing. I never got any nobel for literature inspite of so many people managed to get one. Very recently we had one university professor who lived during the life time of Madan Mohan Malavia, who managed to byheart the entire encyclopedia britannica. I cannot corroborate why USA managed to make an Atom bomb first inspite of Germans trying to make the same with the same knowledge and ability

Why would I become mischievous especially if I am supposed to be part of god? Oh yes, I am a conditioned soul but then again why am I conditioned to begin with? The point of being conditioned is, what? Does it please god to see souls in conditioned life?

You will not be mischievous or otherwise based on your karma, a rule made by god for enable his child play. You are an automated part of the game, you wil decide what you are going to do.

It is immaterial of god whether a soul is conditioned or not, but verily how helpful you are for the game and how disturbing you are for the child game matters

What is asta siddhi and what are the duties I can perform to get it?
How does one love god a thing that I have not seen?

Some one else will guide you on that for my views on such siddhis are different

Have you attained any of these super powers that you talk about or are you just spitting out what you read in scriptures?

I have not got those siddhis, but I have seen people of great Gnanaa

what's a soul and how do I find it and more importantly how do I find out what it rightly deserves? Did you read in a scripture what a soul is and what it righly deserves or do acutally have an experience and you have realised or found it?

Hindu scriptures tells you what a soul is and what it rightly deserves

I did read what a soul is and what it rightly deserves

I have nearby experiences, yet have lot of wavering and distractions to realise in toto. On the path, hence, in nearby will realise in full

Jai shree krishna

[TruthSeeker]

6. Parasu rama - Might is right - (this might resemble communism idea - killing rich and powerful)
7. Shri Rama - Conquest of rich and polite people
8. Bala Rama - Conquest by polite people, need not to be rich enough
9. Shri Krishna - conquest by politically correct people

Even by classical evolution-

Parasurama is an amsa avatara (atleast according to many Hindus, but not all)

Rama - purna avatara, but still apprently experiencing some human limitations. For eg, Rama was exiled to the forest, he was bound by Nagapasha etc.

Krishna - purna avatar who did what he pleased. There is not even a hint of Krishna being in distress from any point of view.(granting that Rama only pretended to be suffering)

Thus, even from Vamana, the homosapien, the evolution of the soul towards becoming God follows in Parasurama, the amsa avatar, Rama, the Nara-Narayana, and Krishna, the Narayana.(In Mahabaratha Arjuna is Nara, whereas in Ramayana, Rama represents both Nara and Narayana and hence his apparent limitations)

Obviously, this is an advaitic viewpoint.