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Thread: Latest BLOG From The Invisible Hindu The West Disrespects.......

  1. #11
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    Re: Latest BLOG From The Invisible Hindu The West Disrespects.......

    Namaste,

    Quote Originally Posted by markandeya 108 dasa View Post
    I was just thinking yesterday about Yoga in the west and what would a high level sage really think about....


    For me to figure out how a 'high level sage' would think about anything at all, I would have to be spiritually much more developed than a 'high level sage'. And I am nowhere even close to that and will definitely not get there in this birth cycle. I am glad that some people feel that they can get into the heads of 'high level sages' and predict what and how they would think/behave/react.

    Pranam.

  2. #12

    Re: Latest BLOG From The Invisible Hindu The West Disrespects.......

    Namaste

    Well the point being is that they are beyond our comprehension, so we should sometimes be careful of judging some of the methods of teaching. I am not saying that I understand where they are coming from but will take some caution to judge some of the methods that have been taught.

    So you completely misunderstood what I was saying.

    But whats new

    I will add something more to help put what I said into context and what fueled my thought, as far as I know thinking is allowed.

    It was inspired by the introduction in Goraknathas Philosophy, where there is a firm distinction made between the philosopher and the yogi, the philosopher tries to build up a picture or reality of the Absolute Truth using concepts and intellectual ideas, where as the Yogis have had direct experiences in Samadhi which transcends all idea, views and intellectual concepts. One subject that is discussed is that once that experience has been attained they can then use concepts and ideas to express or guide others into that experience, and bring one up to gain the same experience, but not really taking to much interest in the concepts and ideas in themselves, they just use them as methods and tools to help one come to an experience of the Absolute Truth.

    So it doesnt take a massive stretch of the imagination that high level yogis and sadhus are working beyond conventions, I think there are many examples of sometimes some almost eccentric ways within spiritual teachings, this can be found in most traditions, in India sometimes they are known as Avadhutas, and many other forms of mystics in others ones. So its more of a respect and some understanding that transcendence is not limited by our finite views.
    Last edited by markandeya 108 dasa; 17 April 2017 at 06:36 PM.

  3. #13
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    Re: Latest BLOG From The Invisible Hindu The West Disrespects.......

    Namaste

    It is a little strange for me, that the intention of Mystical Soul’s article is not appreciated, not even mentioned in the discussion. He stands to his passion, to Sanatana Dharma, and the forum defines terms. Are you Indians and born Hindus here really not hurt, when your great lore is mocked? Then you are all high level sages indeed – congratulation!

    East and West is an old metaphor – orient and occident.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orient

    Latin says: Ex oriente lux – light (comes) from the east – not only meaning the physical sun. Lot of philosophers, wise and poets got their inspiration from the Orient.

    Following Markandeya 108 dasa’s definition of Sanatana Dharma from ‚Hello from UK‘.

    I just thought to mention some other aspects of Hinduism which is not just restricted to philosophy and written texts, there is so much more to it that supports it too, dance, music, art, science. In fact its a whole living tradition, a whole way of life, it teaches one how to eat properly, sleep properly, exercise in the right way, the whole science of well being ayurveda , there is sacred geometry how to build things properly-vastu, sanskrit language, that in itself is a lifetime study, and even if one cant fully learn Sanskrit even few key words are so beneficial as they represent supra mundane concepts, energies or realities that far transcend ordinary concepts and ideas that most use in daily life. But again everything is always centered around Self realization.

    Pranam
    Dance with Shiva - live with Shiva - merge with Shiva

  4. #14
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    Re: Latest BLOG From The Invisible Hindu The West Disrespects.......

    Namaste India Lover

    Are you Indians and born Hindus here really not hurt, when your great lore is mocked? Then you are all high level sages indeed – congratulation!
    Thanks for pointing it out. Mystical Lover has created a blog, and I thanked him whole heartedly yesterday. Earlier (around 2 years ago) many Indians use to participate in HDF discussions, apparently they are all missing in action.

    That said, it is true Indians don't get hurt. If we are hurt, how can we function as the torch bearers of "M.K brand Secularism & Ahimsa" that was fully protected and nurtured by the government machinery until few years ago. And those who speak-up for Hindus are any way subjected to name-calling, so why should we bother?. Busy at work, can't write more

    Thanks again for congratulating us
    Anirudh...

  5. #15

    Re: Latest BLOG From The Invisible Hindu The West Disrespects.......

    Namaste

    What do you want Indialover, that Indians and better practicing Western Hindus whoever they are come out with flames and torches, sharpened knives and wage an attack on the West or people who dont follow strictly all the tenants of Hinduism and Traditional ways to the most pure brahmical terms. I am not even sure how much these are followed in India, so it not just a western problem its a modern day problem that is global.

    I dont want to be misunderstood, so I am saying one last time that my point that the west should not be demonized for not being as good or coming up to the standard of a naturally born Hindu. I think a lot of these things are quite unfair. The West is learning and is coming from a background and society that doesn't always support natural spiritual growth. If that amount of tolerance is taken away then in my opinion your falling into the hands of the protagonist and causes more division.

    Just because people in the West are not up to the standard of yoga of Patanjali Muni, or may not have the Sanskirt skills of Panini , doesnt mean that they are anti Hindu or that they are consciously reducing the culture of India and Sanatana Dharma. So there should be some tolerance and a time period where people can grow and learn more with a bit more broad mindedness. If that encouragement is there and a better understanding of cultural differences, and how society and education is conditioning people then there should be a wider birth to help people feel natural to grow in their own ways.

    There are also a lot of positives that can be taken out of people who practice Yoga according to their conditioning and values. What you may find with someone who is practicing their own version of Hinduism and Yoga is that they may well be vegetarian, nature lovers, they are usually into different forms of healing, being kind and open minded and accepting all religions , or just being free from views and consider them self as spiritual. Many of these people believe in love, in sattvic values, in protecting the planet from pollution. Maybe some smoke dope, what an outrage, you would never see a holy man in India do that right? Maybe you see some who drink, shock and horror, you would never see a Hindu drink or eat meat, its unheard of right? Or maybe any bad habit was taught and influenced by the west. A lot of people practice Yoga to maintain good health, is that such a bad thing, is it only westerners thatt will do asana to maintain health.

    Maybe Ravana was actually European.

    My point being is that good and bad exist in all people everywhere, and people face challenges in life, and also that true realization cannot be imitated, people may like many of the spirituality that comes from India, but they dont feel that they need to become Indian or Hindu, and why should they. Transcendence and spirituality goes beyond all boundaries. I think most people in the West will see India as liberal in their spirituality because it has so much diversity and tolerance, but traditional conservatives are usually very formal and strict, which is a good thing and they lead by example, I just would prefer that there is some tolerance.

    You may get a dope smoking so called cool guy who goes to India, buys an OM T shirt, gets a tattoo of Shiva does some Yoga course and smokes some Bang and Charas and as a great time, but fast forward 20 years that same person once they have grown up a bit may become a very sincere and serious seeker and look more deeply into teachings of Sanatana Dharma. So lets not be to judgmental and my main point is that we need more good examples, if Hinduism wants to be accepted and acknowledged around the world in a positive light then they have the responsibility to to show the correct examples.

    I would fully agree that India is our last and best bet to regain true spirituality, its still the largest living tradition on the planet and the whole world can learn so much from it and not just he West but the East also has benefited immensely from the knowledge that has come from India. That doesnt mean that everyone has to carbon copy what it is to be a Hindu. In Thailand Ravana is seen as a mortal man with ordinary desires and is looked upon with a degree of compassion that man is born with desires and imperfect. To me ideas like this can be applied just as much as seeing Ravana as some great demon.

    Both India, the East and the West can learn from each other, all sincere people are trying to improve, Krsna Himself calls out 4 types of people who approach him and the highest ones who realize Him as He is are few, and also the sage is undisturbed and lives in equanimity with the comings and goings in the world. So we can also take some advice for contemplation from Gita.

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    Re: Latest BLOG From The Invisible Hindu The West Disrespects.......

    What do you want Indialover … nothing, Markandeya 108 dasa, I just expected an opinion to the blog article from some of the many readers.

    Pranam
    Dance with Shiva - live with Shiva - merge with Shiva

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    Re: Latest BLOG From The Invisible Hindu The West Disrespects.......

    Namaste

    Yet another nobler than the noblest spotted. I rest my case.

    @Mystical Soul : Accept my apologies, if you think I have derailed your effort.
    Anirudh...

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    Re: Latest BLOG From The Invisible Hindu The West Disrespects.......

    Namaste Indialover,

    To me, blog is something too personal. It expresses the author's perspective and is non-negotiable. We read it and move on, as it is normally not up for discussion; as is my thread in this forum about 'Some Personal Thoughts'.

    Regarding 'born Hindus not getting mad'; some Westerners have their ethnic pride to project/defend, others continue to act as the erstwhile colonials and try to impress on us that 'only they' can think straight and we should continue to subjugate to them, some visitors think they have a deeper understanding of the Hindu scriptures because they roamed around in India/lived in some ashrams/studied some mundane philosophy. To butt heads with them on a daily basis ruins our day. So, the easy road to take is to let the sleeping giants think that they lead the philosophical/intellectual thinking of this forum. I am sure you have heard of the four types of men, the lowest being 'the one who knows not that he knows not'. No point in waking up someone in deep slumber and be attacked for doing so.

    Pranam.

  9. #19

    Re: Latest BLOG From The Invisible Hindu The West Disrespects.......

    Namaste

    You think my comments are nobler than the nobler whatever that means.

    I am just giving some balance that if someone wants to target something it cant be done as a geneal thing,I dint make any comments for or against the article.

    Many people in the west are trying to revive their spirituality, some are extremely dedicated, I know of many that get up everyday at 4am and earlier and practice with all their heart and might and have given all their lives in total dedication to Eastern practices, sacrificed so much, a lot more than some people who post on here could ever comprehend.

    Where do they get mentioned. I know lots of western people that put weeks, months and years in retreats and go through so many hardships to develop skills in meditation. These people are westerners. Why not talk about good things and highlight what people are actually doing right, a lot of westerners have also given life long service in one way or another to India and projects for the betterment and upliftment of India and Dharmic causes of India too, why are these people not mentioned.

    I think you would be surprised how many people are interested in Hindu Culture, but many dont know where to start, and get confused and are not always offered the right guidance. Just yesterday I was reading in Dzogchen about the differences of Non Duality within their tradition and Advaita Vedanta, and I there were quite a few that went first to Hindu teachings but then chose Buddhism simply because there was a better structure for them to fit with reliable active teachers that cared about their spiritual progress.

    My only contribution to thread was to say that not all westerners disgrace or disrespect Hinduism, in fact I think far more respect it but maybe do not know how to fit in or integrate, and there should be more encouragement because one will find a very receptive audience if both sides can learn about each others cultural conditioning, I live my life and my views by synthesis and honesty, i would consider that a noble cause in todays world. From both sides we need examples and to promote good examples.

  10. #20
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    Re: Latest BLOG From The Invisible Hindu The West Disrespects.......

    Namaste markandeya 108 dasa

    Although I did not want to write any further on this subject, making one last observation here. However, my comment is not limited to what you have written on this thread alone.

    That said, I will explain my observation by suggesting a simple exercise to you, it is up to you to try it out or not. Actually I can create table with two columns and explain your position to each objection made, but not sure, you will have the interest to see the other side of coin.

    So, please jot down all your points in one side and validate them with views offered from the other side of the discussion. In the last three or four occasions I find myself going in circles to get to the core issue as you begin with something and end up with something else. Can the objectivity be met, if we change the goal post during the discussion?

    Neither I have traveled like you have claimed here nor have spent time in caves/ashrams/etc etc.

    My strength comes from the fact that I am an Indian, and hence can understand my history better than others. There is a proverb in Tamil 'தான் ஆடாவிட்டாலும் தன் சதை ஆடும்' (even if the individual would not want to dance, the individual's flesh will) which is roughly equivalent to 'blood is thicker than water'.

    When ever any Indian visit or come in contact with any devastated site in India, will experience an unknown sharp painful question. When my fore fathers had the intellectual capacity to build these structures why did not they had the capacity to protect it. And that's the starting point of the search called "Who am I"?

    I am sure every Indian irrespective of the IQ would have undergone that feeling. For an Indian it won't matter whether the barbaric act was committed by Mr. X or Mr. Y. What matters to him is that He has lost it because some creature did not the had the heart or the intellectual capacity to accept the greatness of our hard work. PERIOD.

    It would not be an exaggeration if I say, in the past 1000 years or so, we Indians have consumed lot of information (stories) about us from the Elites who passionately visited us.

    If I think deeply, Elite, you often mention in your posts, is not any outsider. Every individual has one or more elite engraved. We mostly fail to see the elite within us because that fits us. You may take offense, but it is OK. Medicine is often bitter. I repeat, I may have the access to modern equipment and accessories but that won't make me modern if I haven't learned to respect. The dictionary I refer says Respect is the "Courteous regard for people's feelings". I meant 'PEOPLE', by the way

    Thank you!!
    Anirudh...

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