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Thread: Significance of a body's ashes

  1. #1
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    Significance of a body's ashes

    Namaste

    Before I ask my question I have to tell some details in advance.

    In Christianity you can be burried or burnt. Body or ashes remain in a graveyard. Body in a coffin, ashes in an urn.

    Since some years the ashes can be burried under a tree in a so called ‚friedwald‘, fried – peace, wald – forest.

    My mother wanted to be burried in such a friedwald. She died in October 2015, my father did not fulfill her wish. Her ashes remained in an urn in the graveyard. My father’s motivation was that in the near graveyard he can visit her daily. The next Friedwald was miles away.

    Now my father died, his urn is placed beside the urn of his wife. The following questions arise:

    Should I fulfill my mother’s wish now and transfer her ashes and my father‘s to a friedwald?
    Will there be any satisfaction for my mother‘s soul?
    What significance has the ashes of a body especially after 18 months?
    The soul took a new body again - why care for the ashes of the old one?

    Thank you for your opinions.

    Pranam
    Dance with Shiva - live with Shiva - merge with Shiva

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    Re: Significance of a body's ashes

    Namaste Indialover,

    Quote Originally Posted by Indialover View Post
    My mother wanted to be burried in such a friedwald. She died in October 2015, my father did not fulfill her wish. Her ashes remained in an urn in the graveyard. My father’s motivation was that in the near graveyard he can visit her daily. The next Friedwald was miles away.

    Now my father died, his urn is placed beside the urn of his wife. The following questions arise:

    Should I fulfill my mother’s wish now and transfer her ashes and my father‘s to a friedwald?
    Will there be any satisfaction for my mother‘s soul?
    What significance has the ashes of a body especially after 18 months?
    The soul took a new body again - why care for the ashes of the old one?
    Beliefs work in a big way in what happens to a soul after death. So, if a person believes that he/she must get a certain ritual to be performed for getting peace, it gets attached to that belief and may keep waiting for that ritual to be performed unless the Karmas are so strong that they overcome the force of this belief system. Therefore, I am of the opinion that death rituals should be performed as per the wishes of the deceased person and not by logic or one's own feelings.

    Hindus believe that the disembodied souls may keep waiting for thousands of years in Pitriloka (the abode of the ancestors) before getting a new birth due their own karma and their beliefs and attachments. So, in my opinion, you should not waste time and perform the rituals as per wishes of your parents. It is never too late. Sometimes, due to dissatisfaction of the ancestors, you and your family may have to suffer unwarranted pains and with their blessings your many problems can vanish just like that. Therefore, these things should not be taken lightly, imho.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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    Re: Significance of a body's ashes

    Namaste Devotee,

    Hindus believe that the disembodied souls may keep waiting for thousands of years in Pitriloka (the abode of the ancestors) before getting a new birth due their own karma and their beliefs and attachments.
    I wish to understand this subject in depth.

    1. Irrespective of the faith people practice the above said rule should be applicable to all Humans departed this world. What will happen to those souls belonging to other faiths?
    2. When we do Shraadh, the entire lineage will be benefited. If few souls in the lineage are re born, will they (ie alive at the moment) reap any benefit?
    3. What will happen to those souls whose offspring either dont perform Shraadh or accept other faith and hence do not follow such practices.



    Quote Originally Posted by devotee View Post
    Namaste Indialover,



    Beliefs work in a big way in what happens to a soul after death. So, if a person believes that he/she must get a certain ritual to be performed for getting peace, it gets attached to that belief and may keep waiting for that ritual to be performed unless the Karmas are so strong that they overcome the force of this belief system. Therefore, I am of the opinion that death rituals should be performed as per the wishes of the deceased person and not by logic or one's own feelings.

    Hindus believe that the disembodied souls may keep waiting for thousands of years in Pitriloka (the abode of the ancestors) before getting a new birth due their own karma and their beliefs and attachments. So, in my opinion, you should not waste time and perform the rituals as per wishes of your parents. It is never too late. Sometimes, due to dissatisfaction of the ancestors, you and your family may have to suffer unwarranted pains and with their blessings your many problems can vanish just like that. Therefore, these things should not be taken lightly, imho.

    OM
    Last edited by Anirudh; 01 May 2017 at 04:39 PM.
    Anirudh...

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    Re: Significance of a body's ashes

    Namaste India Lover,

    I am not sure if I had given this link earlier. Sometime ago, Saidevo (a senior member) had given me this link.

    Pranaam

    Quote Originally Posted by Indialover View Post
    Namaste

    Before I ask my question I have to tell some details in advance.

    In Christianity you can be burried or burnt. Body or ashes remain in a graveyard. Body in a coffin, ashes in an urn.

    Since some years the ashes can be burried under a tree in a so called ‚friedwald‘, fried – peace, wald – forest.

    My mother wanted to be burried in such a friedwald. She died in October 2015, my father did not fulfill her wish. Her ashes remained in an urn in the graveyard. My father’s motivation was that in the near graveyard he can visit her daily. The next Friedwald was miles away.

    Now my father died, his urn is placed beside the urn of his wife. The following questions arise:

    Should I fulfill my mother’s wish now and transfer her ashes and my father‘s to a friedwald?
    Will there be any satisfaction for my mother‘s soul?
    What significance has the ashes of a body especially after 18 months?
    The soul took a new body again - why care for the ashes of the old one?

    Thank you for your opinions.

    Pranam
    Anirudh...

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    Re: Significance of a body's ashes

    Thank you devotee for this point ‚the wishes of the deceased person and not by logic or one's own feelings.‘

    The rites were done properly according to Christianity. Only the place of the urn is not choosen according to my mother’s wish.

    Thank you Anirudh for the interesting work of Swami Sivananda.

    What will happen to those souls belonging to other faiths? This question I ask myself also since long.

    Anyhow I believe that Indian lore is the source of everything and the ultimate truth. Lord Shiva says in His Rahasya Purana, chapter 9

    21. Verily, My Law is heard by every Soul according to his own Karma. The righteous ones that on account of their good Karma are born amongst the Righteous Nations receive My Law in full. But those that on account of their evil Karma are born amongst the unfaithful, must content themselves with whatever fragments of My Law they may come by. For, having done a work for the sake of obtaining an end, man must reap a reward according to the nature of his intentions. Thus every man is born in the land that he deserves on his merits or sins. This is the Eternal Law. I am Ever Compassionate and Just and so is My Law.

    May be we have to be reborn again and again until we reach the Righteous Nation where rites are fulfilled according to the Veda. Even not born in India I for myself want to die in Varanasi … Karma will decide.

    Pranam
    Dance with Shiva - live with Shiva - merge with Shiva

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    Re: Significance of a body's ashes

    Namaste India Lover

    May be we have to be reborn again and again until we reach the Righteous Nation where rites are fulfilled according to the Veda. Even not born in India I for myself want to die in Varanasi … Karma will decide.
    It is nice to see people born in different parts of the world would wish to spend their end years in India especially when scores of learned Individuals from India have migrated. That said, I have a different understanding of Bharathvarsha and Sanatana Dharma's geographical spread. It could create a controversy or member might consider it as a baseless claim.

    In Srimad Raamaayana, King Sugreeva seem to have ordered his troupes to go to every nook and corner of the world in search of Sri Sita Devi. Hell will break loose, if we try to understand the real meaning of King's word in that context
    Anirudh...

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    Re: Significance of a body's ashes

    Namaste Anirudh,

    I cannot understand why an Indian leaves India. Sure, I was there only as a tourist, may be my view is too romantic - I do not know anything about daily life. My fascination relates to the scriptures … from Upanishads to myths. Indian lore is unique in this world (just my opinion).

    I do not want to open another east/west discussion … but Bharathvarsha and Sanatana Dharma's geographical spread is defenitely not in the country I was born. And also in India Kali Yuga is present as everywhere. But India preserved something only a foreigner can perceive, the subtle predominates the coarse.

    The verse of Shiva Rahasya Purana I mentioned is a neutral one. But many verses talk about India as the Holy Land and as the land where the righteous live. I am sure Vyasa did not mention India but Bharathvarsha.

    Pranam
    Dance with Shiva - live with Shiva - merge with Shiva

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    Re: Significance of a body's ashes

    Namaste Anirudh,

    Quote Originally Posted by Anirudh View Post
    I wish to understand this subject in depth.

    1. Irrespective of the faith people practice the above said rule should be applicable to all Humans departed this world. What will happen to those souls belonging to other faiths?
    The subtle loka is made of just mind-waves and there are no gross objects or gross senses. The thoughts become many times powerful and if a person goes to places of spiritually advanced souls, he experiences whatever he wants to. These subtle lokas (made of mind-waves and nothing gross) are shaped by one's belief system. That is how Lord Krishna says that a person attains after death as per what he was thinking at the time of death because all through his life, he was attached to those thoughts Bhagwad Gita Chapter 8 verse 6.

    Therefore, as I said earlier, the being encounters situations as per his/her belief system. If he is attached to some rituals to be conducted on the earth i.e. the gross world by his children, he keeps waiting for that ritual to be performed and that is a painful existence and that increases Karma burden on the children.

    2. When we do Shraadh, the entire lineage will be benefited. If few souls in the lineage are re born, will they (ie alive at the moment) reap any benefit?
    Any person has two existence simultaneously i.e. at the Gross level and at subtle level. Even if a person gets a body and that body stays in gross world his mental existence may or may not be attached to his previous birth. If he is attached, he may be suffering from some unknown dissatisfaction in this life too at mental level and he would have no reason to account for that unhappiness. If he is not attached then it doesn't matter to him if his children perform any ritual for him or not because it is all in one's mind (mind survives after death). So, if something is done by his children of previous birth, he would feel unexplained satisfaction and peace even in this life and that attachment would go. Otherwise, these Karma debt will remain and will create situations to even out the balances.

    3. What will happen to those souls whose offspring either dont perform Shraadh or accept other faith and hence do not follow such practices.
    As I told you, Children have natural debt towards their parents and they are supposed to even out these debts in time as per wishes of their parents otherwise these Karma debts create different amazing situations to settle the score.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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    Re: Significance of a body's ashes

    Dear devotee, these details again convinced me to do what I feel that has to be done … just started the administrative work for the transfer of the urn from graveyard to a peaceful forest. Thank you!

    Pranam
    Dance with Shiva - live with Shiva - merge with Shiva

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    Re: Significance of a body's ashes

    Quote Originally Posted by Indialover View Post
    Dear devotee, these details again convinced me to do what I feel that has to be done … just started the administrative work for the transfer of the urn from graveyard to a peaceful forest. Thank you!

    Pranam

    Namaste India Lover,

    I assume you won't misunderstand me.

    Our rational mind does not permit us to believe on matters related to life after death, but see the beauty here. None of us in this discussion have met each other in person, yet directly or indirectly, we all have played some role in fulfilling someones last wish. Human desires (thoughts) are very powerful no matter the individual is alive or dead

    May Sriman Naaraayan bless the departed souls. RIP.
    Anirudh...

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