Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 12

Thread: Samadhi

  1. #1
    Join Date
    July 2015
    Location
    Germany
    Age
    63
    Posts
    158
    Rep Power
    381

    Samadhi

    Namaste

    Although I am far away from samadhi but reading the post of Bhairava8 who had a samadhi ‚experience‘, my question is:

    Is samadhi an experience from which one can fall back? I thought samadhi is reaching the fourth state - beyond waking, draming, deep sleep - and this is forever… turiya, satchitananda … final union with the ultimate.

    Thanks for clarification.

    Pranam
    Dance with Shiva - live with Shiva - merge with Shiva

  2. #2
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    66
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Samadhi

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~
    namasté

    I will use a past post to offer one view on the question you pose.

    We are informed by vasuguta-ji in the 1st section (called svarūpa spanda1) & the 17th kārikā, the following:

    tasyopalabdhiḥ satataṁ tripadāvyabhicāriṇī|
    nityaṁ syātsuprabuddhasya tadādyante parasya tu||17


    It informs us,

    to the elevated/awakened one (suprabuddhasya), there is (syāt), always (nityam) and continual (satatam), uninterrupted perception (upalabdhiḥ) of That ( tasya ‘of the real nature’) or of Self.
    It is there ( this uninterrupted perception) in tripada (or the 3 conditions of consciousness wake-dream-sleep). However (tu) to the other one (parasya) That (tad) occurs only at the beginning (ādi) and end (ante).

    This needs a bit more explaining... This says for the one awakened\fully alert and elevated the experience of Self ( That/Being, turiya or pure awareness) is there continually; yet to the other one? Who is the other one? That person, practitioner or yogi or sādhu who is not elevated to the suprabuddhi level, only experiences or recollects it during the entry point (ādi) or exit point (ante) of one’s practice ... of one’s ‘dive’ inward taking that person to the level of the 4th (turīya) or pure awareness.

    For some this too does not occur. They will say, hey I have not even had this experience of the entry or exit point... then one just needs more practice as it comes with the territory.

    Hence we have 3 types of practitioners:

    1. the suprabuddha sādhu
    2. the prabuddha sādhu
    3. the aprabuddha sādhu


    One’s real nature is always there ( how could it not, we would not be alive!) ;
    1. for the elevated one(suprabuddha sādhu) it is a continual experience.
    2. for the prabuddha sādhu the experience comes at the beginning and end;
    3. for the aprabuddha sādhu , he or she is work in process.

    Now the secret is this: for the prabuddha sādhu this pure awareness is found during the entry point (ādi) or exit point (ante). Yet the beauty is this exit and entry point is found many times throughout the day and night, we call it the gap , some call it madhya ( middle), others may call it viśrānti or rest point.
    It is that madhya between wake and dream, even between dream and sleep. It is found between two breaths, that gap between inward and outward breath ( some call sun and moon, others prāṇa and apāna). These are just a few e.g. between two thoughts, between object A and object B, etc.

    इतिशिवं
    iti śivaṁ
    1. This chapter is from the spanda-kārikās, considered a commentary on the śiva-sūtras; note that the śiva-sūtras emphasize prakāśa ( pure being) of the Supreme, and in the spanda-kārikās it emphasizes vimarśa. Vimarśa is the dynamic , creative impulse of the Supreme, paramaśiva.
    Last edited by yajvan; 24 September 2017 at 05:04 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  3. #3

    Re: Samadhi

    Namaste

    There is always the possibility of regress right up to the point of full Self realization. This is discussed between Arjuna and Sri Krsna in 6th Chapter. Positive being that no matter what advancement is made is never lost. Some of the key points in the yoga systems is Abhyasa and Vairagya or constant practice and detachment, also niskam Karma Yoga or doing prescribed practices without a desire for the results.

    As Swami Laxman Joo says, no matter what happens and no matter what level of God consciousness one is at just carry on remembering God and he will carry you.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MG1V1XUZSww

  4. #4
    Join Date
    July 2015
    Location
    Germany
    Age
    63
    Posts
    158
    Rep Power
    381

    Re: Samadhi

    Thank you yajvan and markandeya 108 dasa.

    Reading your answers and chapter 6 of Bhagavad Gita samadhi may be called an experience.
    How do you call the final union, the final oneness with the ultimate, when rebirth has found its end?

    Pranam
    Dance with Shiva - live with Shiva - merge with Shiva

  5. #5
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    66
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Samadhi

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~
    namasté


    Quote Originally Posted by Indialover View Post
    Thank you yajvan and markandeya 108 dasa.

    Reading your answers and chapter 6 of Bhagavad Gita samadhi may be called an experience.
    How do you call the final union, the final oneness with the ultimate, when rebirth has found its end?

    Pranam
    You ask very reasonable questions. First we need to be mindful of the notion of ~ experience~. Most to many will think, 'oh there is me, and then there is this samādhi1' . Let's start here:

    • There is no 2.
      • It is ~as if~ saying I am experiencing this ball in my hand. There is me, the experiencer and there is this object, the ball. It is not like that.

    • When the experiencer (consciousness) rests in itself, this is samādhi. There can be no two.
      • This is called pure consciousness, un-directed, un-assigned consciousness, pure awareness. It rests in itself.

    • If we wish to use the term 'experience' it would then be pure awareness experiencing itself. Some call restfully alert. It is lively silence, awake-fullness; yet awake in itself, yet perfectly peaceful, alert, calm and collected.


    Now, what is the final term, the final union? My teacher always called it wholeness/fullness.

    This wholeness/fullness is termed pūrṇapātrapratibhaṭa -fullness or a full vessel i.e. overflowing , supreme; when fully blossomed it not the collective individual feeling of parts and a notion of togetherness as if a team or collection of people. It is something much more profound.

    It is when there are no other 'I's that are seen, not even one's own 'I' ( individuality) . It has melted away or cannot be found, tagged or located. No boundary exists ( the boundary of individualism is no longer). There is just Being, fullness, wholeness every were, this is the wholeness, without parts.

    But yajvan, what happens to people ? What does this person who perceives only Being and homogeneous Self everywhere, what happens to the containers of being we call a person ?

    The wise say that people become the ~fragrance ~ of the Self. They are expressions of this Being.

    The principle offered here is this: The world is as you are. If you live in diversity then the world is filled with the multitude of differences. Yet if one resides with one's on Being (Self) then the world is none other then this extension... pure homogenous being. In a previous post it was called satatoditam2.

    iti śivaṁ


    1.
    samādhi- union , a whole; completion. The silence of Self.
    2. satatoditam, without break or pause; 'without break or pause' is some times called avicchinnātaparamārthaṁ, uninterrupted, yet the word I often use is satatoditam (satata + udita)
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  6. #6
    Join Date
    July 2015
    Location
    Germany
    Age
    63
    Posts
    158
    Rep Power
    381

    Re: Samadhi

    Namaste

    The concept of two or not two is not important for what I think about … the liberation from the wheel of birth and death, the point of no return into a carnal body.

    Until now I thought this is called samadhi, obviously that’s wrong. What about moksha and mukti?

    Pranam
    Dance with Shiva - live with Shiva - merge with Shiva

  7. #7
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    66
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Samadhi

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~
    namasté


    Quote Originally Posted by Indialover View Post
    Namaste

    The concept of two or not two is not important for what I think about … the liberation from the wheel of birth and death, the point of no return into a carnal body.

    Until now I thought this is called samadhi, obviously that’s wrong. What about moksha and mukti?

    Pranam
    Please note that 'moksha and mukti' is when there is no 2. That is why it is important. The idea of 2 is the very basis of ignorance.

    iti śivaṁ
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  8. #8

    Re: Samadhi

    Namaste Indialover,

    You are not wrong about samadhi, as samadhi means union and when union is attained liberation from birth and death is also attained. The words Moksha, Mukti and Nirvana also mean liberation from cyclical existence.

    Samadhi is also used to describe the supra mental faculty, or mental realms or absorption's above, deeper or beyond the ordinary mind and can be experienced in layers, in Patanjali yoga sutras I think there are 10 levels of Samadhi that are spoken about. So to have an experience of Samadhi doesnt necessarily mean that one attains to full realization of the Self and never fall back into ignorance. The importance of Samadhi or the development of Samadhi is to gradually wear down the samskaras or mental impressions or the conditions in the mind that covers or veils the Self.

    The more one becomes ingrained in samadhi practice, through cultivation of meditation, dhyana new forms of language related to the success of Self realization are opened and the function of Dhi or spiritual intellect becomes more prominent in that supra-mental world above the ordinary mind.

    Mind somehow or another has superimposed itself over our true nature and Samadhi or the cultivation of Samadhi cleans out the chitta or storehouse mind. The samskaras are deep and well rotted in the chitta, so Samadhi comes in drops and levels of intensity to reconnect with the true Self in Turiya, this is the path of Samadhi.

    There is much to be said about this, especially the practice and cultivation, which should be regular leading upto constant. Thats why until one reaches the highest level of Samadhi nirvikalpa samadhi there is always chance of regress due to the deep imprints of our samskaras.

    Although I haven't read it, only browsed some time ago Light on Yoga Sutras by Iyengar is a good source of study. But the best study is through sadhana practice and observation of mind states, thats why I say that Samadhi have levels of their own language, if dhi~supramental faculty is activated in equanimity of mind one will gain insight knowledge that one can understand for themselves without any or much need of external study or verification.
    Last edited by markandeya 108 dasa; 27 September 2017 at 04:57 AM.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    July 2015
    Location
    Germany
    Age
    63
    Posts
    158
    Rep Power
    381

    Re: Samadhi

    Thank you so much for this great exemplification, markandeya 108 dasa.

    Pranam
    Dance with Shiva - live with Shiva - merge with Shiva

  10. #10
    Join Date
    September 2006
    Age
    66
    Posts
    7,705
    Rep Power
    0

    Re: Samadhi

    hariḥ oṁ
    ~~~~~~
    namasté

    You are not wrong about samadhi, as samadhi means union and when union is attained liberation from birth and death is also attained

    The following post is for the general reader. It is to advance the conversation a bit more. It is not to answer Indialover’s question directly as that has been accomplished by markandeya 108 dasa in post 8.

    One must be mindful that it is patañjali’s yogadarśana that emphasizes the notion of samādhi¹ i.e. is brought to light in one's spiritual thinking. Different schools ( darṣaṇa-s
    ) have differing ( yet not opposed) view points on the term used; but for this post we will view all schools in harmony on this matter.

    Within this samādhi, it can be with eyes closed or with eyes open. When the eyes are open it suggests the sādhu has stabilized the level of samādhi to even experience it while in activity. This in fact is confirmed in the bhāgavadgītā (chapt 2.48) with kṛṣṇaḥ-jī’s words, yogasthaḥ kuru karmānī- established (or steadfast) in yoga ( union) perform actions (karma). That is, even with your eyes open, you are established in the yoga ( union) of Self ( pure awareness). It is not lost to one’s daily activities. This idea was reviewed tangentially in post 2 above as the elevated/awakened one (suprabuddhasya).

    Yet what of the person with eyes closed ( in his/her practice) ? This person is the prabuddha sādhu, the experience comes at the beginning and end (from post 2 above); The experience of samādhi ~may be remembered ~ when entering it and leaving it , yet not in the middle, while in it.

    So from patañjali’s yogadarśana point-of-view there are two terms to be aware of, aligning to the subject of samādhi :
    · samprajñāta - distinguished , discerned , known accurately; mind is 'partially arrested'.
    · asamprajñāta - this is the 'fully arrested' state. Some call this object-less i.e. nirvīja made up of nir = nis 'without' + vīja = bīja 'seed' - hence without seed, or objectless. When emerged in it, there is no object of meditation, some call it knowledge-less as no subject and object exist to be inspected or used.

    The 1st one, samprajñāta samādhi , is considered a one-pointed condition and brings about the cessation or weakening of kleśa-s (affliction’s of which 52 are usually called out); yet be mindful there is some vehicle that is used to create this one-pointedness. This is all well and good, yet ( as mentioned several times above) there is still ‘two’ that is occurring. There is the practitioner and there is this object of mediation that brings one-pointedness and we can call it the practice. This help or vehicle is called as 4 by patañjali-ji3. I will not go in to these as it wanders the reader off course of what is to be offered here.
    The other point to note is that the mind is 'partially arrested'. Why so? Because it returns after one’s practice (meditation); For some silence may be there for a short time, then passed impressions arise and the mind becomes fully engaged in the world of diversity.

    The second one asamprajñāta samādhi – the mind is fully arrested; the ~noise~ has stopped, the chatter has subsided, that is all fluctuations ( as patañjali calls it) are arrested; he uses the term nirodhaḥ4 (destruction, annihilation). One resides in Self ( pure awareness). This is one’s frame of reference. The silence of the Self that never leaves. It is there in wake-dream-sleep. In fact wake-dream-sleep appear within it, as expressions of it and one watches it from the silence of the Self. In words of patañjali’s yogadarśana he calls this out as dharma-megha5 or cloud pouring virtue in the last chapter3. One now can fulfill the instruction offered by kṛṣṇaḥ, yogasthaḥ kuru karmānī.

    So, one may think this is the end of the line. It is not. More unfoldment is possible. In brief words, this Self extends to all corners of the universe, in fact all things reside within Self ( Universal Being). This person who has become established in Self ( which was always there, it is not ‘gained’ like an object) is now the truly in the position to be the akhaṇḍākaraḥ - whole, entire, not fragmented source. In words of patañjali’s yogadarśana this may be called kaivalya6, or absolute unity ( there is no 2).

    Some schools argue over this term kaivalya due to the fact that it too can be considered ‘isolation’; for some that seems foreign to the idea of unity. I see no fault with this term , and its application seems quite profound. It is the ‘isolation’ of only one, there is no ‘other’ anywhere to be viewed, seen, or experienced. All is none other than ‘me’ everywhere.

    What was offered here was skimming the subject... if one wished to go a bit deeper consider the following HDF posts:
    http://hindudharmaforums.com/showthr...-light-on-yoga
    http://hindudharmaforums.com/showthr...1jali-s-sutras

    iti śivaṁ

    1. samādhi समाधि- is one pointed absorption; One can say the mind is absorbed or 'concentrated' - but it is not the act of concentrating
    • samādhi ( just to say consistent) sam + ā + dhā : sam or sama = sameness, evenness, homogeneous + ā = although completely + dhā = take hold of , hold , bear , support. Hence samādhi = 'to hold sameness/eveness completely'.

    2. called out – see patañjali’s yogadarśana, 5th sūtra, 1st chapter.
    3. by patañjali-ji
    • vitarkavicārānandāsmitārūpānugamātsamprajñātaḥ||17
      samprajñātasamādhi (samprajñātaḥ) (is achieved) by means of (anugamāt, of these 4) vitarka, vicāra, ānanda and asmitā (vitarkavicārānandāsmitārūpa)||1
      7, chapter 1
    • 4. yogaścittavṛttinirodhaḥ||2
      yoga (yogaḥ) is the suppression (nirodha)
      nirodhaḥ - restraint , check , control , suppression , destruction;suppression or annihilation of pain

    5. prasaṅkhyāne'pyakusīdasya sarvathā vivekakhyāterdharmameghaḥ samādhiḥ||29
    6. tadā vivekanimnaṅkaivalyaprāgbhārañcittam||26
    then (tadā), mind (cittam) inclines (nimnam) toward discriminating (knowledge) (viveka) directed (prāgbhāram) toward complete liberation (kaivalya)||26
    Last edited by yajvan; 29 September 2017 at 02:06 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Is ultimate samadhi necessary not-dualistic?
    By orlando in forum Patanjali
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 21 December 2012, 06:09 AM
  2. Samadhi
    By wonderland in forum God in Hindu Dharma
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 26 January 2011, 06:38 AM
  3. That state before Samadhi
    By Hiwaunis in forum Patanjali
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: 22 May 2009, 12:35 AM
  4. Pre-Samadhi?
    By rmystic in forum Meditation
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 12 July 2008, 08:45 PM
  5. Brahmagyan, Jivanmukti and Samadhi are they equal
    By Hiwaunis in forum On Dharma
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 18 February 2008, 03:52 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •