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Thread: Correct to have demolished Budhdhist temples to build Hindu temples?

  1. #11
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    Re: Correct to have demolished Budhdhist temples to build Hindu temples?

    Quote Originally Posted by markandeya 108 dasa View Post
    If there was any degradation of Buddha Dharma it would have been through the popularization of tantra.
    I have read a legend that Vishnu supposedly introduced tantra to Buddhism to degrade and ultimately destroy it. This is an amazing idea, as tantra as a system was, and is, both Buddhist and Hindu but it's such a bad-boy, that just implicating it is perhaps inevitable. I think tantra was always a minority pursuit and viewed with suspicion by main stream society. It's certainly 'problematic' in some ways, both then and now. I have been told that it is regarded as degenerate black magic in India nowadays, though I think yogic teachings on subtle prana and inner fire feature in ancient pre-Buddhist texts.

  2. #12

    Re: Correct to have demolished Budhdhist temples to build Hindu temples?

    Namaste srivijaya,

    I am not sure that sri vishnu would create a tantra to destroy Buddhism as Sri Vishnu is Suddha sattva and the preserver of all things good. I've come across some accounts that Vishnu and Shiva have been used as war Deities in the past. Most of Vishnu avatars are Ksatriyas but it's munande men that corrupt whatever real meaning is behind the original.

    There maybe diverse ways to practice tantra, in my partial understanding it's the unity between masculine and feminine energy, the balance of plus and minus, positive and negative dualistic energies in states of sama and samadhi that give rise to supra mental realities, that's why in many of the tantric arts it's shown as a union and then gradually degraded into physical sexual activity, but that was never the original teaching as far as I know. This is just a basic explanation.

    When things go mainstream it looses it balance and often sacred practices go towards material elevation and thus degradation is set into motion.

    I will still stick to that siddharta was an ( awkaned) ambassador of true dharma using his royal status, as the sakhya lineage were fierce and this gave siddharta the chance to speak openly about the corruptions in society at the time. And he represented an ancient way. If a simple sadhu or tyagi or any other opposed at the time they may have been dealt with swiftly.

    There is one story I will try to find it or wait until it appears but in the final days of the Buddhist council meeting to establish the purity of the teachings siddharta said that his teachings would be changed before the coals on his funeral pire ( which was a vedic ksatriya ritual) went cold.

    But there is a method to revive his orginal teaching, beyond all controversies and corruption in man which reflects in the mundane written word, and that is the noble eighfold path, the dharmachakra.

    I will also stick to unless something very striking comes up and replaces it that buddha dharma, which was a continuation of the ancient dharma was kept in tact by latter acharyas.

  3. #13
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    Re: Correct to have demolished Budhdhist temples to build Hindu temples?

    Namaste,
    Ineresting discussion. On the point of Vishnu, in buddhism, in the Theravada tradition at least, Vishnu is considered the protector of dharma in this case the Buddha dharma. In fact in bodhgaya India, buddhist monks of that(theravada) tradition are encouraged to visit the nearby Vishnu temple to view his flat feet which are visible as part of a stone structure. This makes sense as Vishnu is never the destroyer of dharma.
    My 2 cents.
    satay

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    Re: Correct to have demolished Budhdhist temples to build Hindu temples?

    Namaste

    Quote Originally Posted by srivijaya View Post
    Should Buddhism ever gain any kind of following in India new temples can be built. It's only a building after all. The true dharma is in the heart.
    Buddhism indeed has a large following in India; dharmasaa is the home of dalai lama! Many historic temples and monasteries are maintained by indian buddhists and the indian government. For instance, Bodhgaya is very well maintained and is visited by buddhists from all over the world. Same thing for monastery in dharmsala.
    Last edited by satay; 12 December 2017 at 05:07 PM.
    satay

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    Re: Correct to have demolished Budhdhist temples to build Hindu temples?

    Quote Originally Posted by markandeya 108 dasa View Post
    There maybe diverse ways to practice tantra, in my partial understanding it's the unity between masculine and feminine energy, the balance of plus and minus, positive and negative dualistic energies in states of sama and samadhi that give rise to supra mental realities, that's why in many of the tantric arts it's shown as a union and then gradually degraded into physical sexual activity, but that was never the original teaching as far as I know. This is just a basic explanation.
    Namaste markandeya,
    Some of the tantric texts I've read are pure sorcery in their original context. Binding and killing enemies, evoking spirits in cremation grounds and so on. They seem to have little or nothing to do with sexual arts of any kind or higher energy/spiritual practices. They subsequently evolved into these higher systems (or at least some were adapted for such purposes). Even some open sadhanas request protection from bandits, wild elephants and so forth, which were a genuine concern for people, and still can be. I can well understand mainstream distrust of this material and the need to keep it secret.

    Also, the history of the Thugs (an Indian loan-word) comes to mind. Wouldn't have wanted to meet one of those chaps on a dark night.

  6. #16

    Re: Correct to have demolished Budhdhist temples to build Hindu temples?

    Namaste srivijaya,


    It will need someone who can translate tantra in it pure meaning. There is so much superstition around. Better to just stick to the eightfold path and the sattvic ascension.
    Last edited by markandeya 108 dasa; 12 December 2017 at 03:46 PM.

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    Re: Correct to have demolished Budhdhist temples to build Hindu temples?

    Quote Originally Posted by markandeya 108 dasa View Post
    Namaste srivijaya,


    It will need someone who can translate tantra in it pure meaning. There is so much superstition around. Better to just stick to the eightfold path and the sattvic ascension.
    Namaste markandeya,
    I agree. I can only work with that which I understand. All else I set aside.

  8. #18

    Re: Correct to have demolished Budhdhist temples to build Hindu temples?

    Namaste Srivija,

    Yes I think you have good approach, if I don't understand something but it's from a good source I have found its best just to put it on the shelf, not throw it away or dismiss it and it's there when needed.

    I just opened the chapter on practices and perpectives, a chapter from a wonderful book The Island- An Anthology Of The Teachings on Nibbana. Maybe it's of use. I can further add the pali terms if I get time from Ledi Sayadaws Dhamma manuals on abhidamma.


    The Buddha taught numerous gradual practices that lead to the Awakening that puts an end to searching. An entire section in the samyutta nikaya ( chapter 43) The Connected Discourses on the Unconditioned, lays out many such practices, begging with

    1. Mindfulness directed to the body

    2. Serenity and insight- samatha, vipassana ‎

    3. Concentration with thought and examination; concentration without thought, with examination only; concentration without thought; with concentration ( 4 levels of jhana~dhyana)

    4. Emptiness concentration, signless concentration, the undirected concentration ( sunnata samadhi, animitta samadhi, apanihita samadhi)  

    5. Four foundations of mindfulness

    6. Four Right Strivings‎

    7. Four Bases for Spiritual Powers

    8. Five Spiritual Faculties

    9 Five Powers

    10. Seven factors of Enlightenment

    11. The Eightfold Path.

    These methods for the foundations of practice in Theravada ( teachings of the elders) ‎.
    Last edited by markandeya 108 dasa; 13 December 2017 at 03:40 PM.

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    Re: Correct to have demolished Budhdhist temples to build Hindu temples?

    Namaste,

    Quote Originally Posted by satay View Post
    Buddhism indeed has a large following in India; dharmasaa is the home of dalai lama! Many historic temples and monasteries are maintained by indian buddhists and the indian government. For instance, Bodhgaya is very well maintained and is visited by buddhists from all over the world. Same thing for monastery in dharmsala.
    Sometimes, internet discussion gives a distorted view of the actual reality on the ground. What Satay says is correct. In fact, Buddha is considered an incarnation of Lord Vishnu by a large section of Hindus. I can tell you one interesting instance :

    I had gone for Pitri Shraaddh to Gaya a few years back. This is a very elaborate and tiring ritual as many of you might know. At the end of the whole process when you have completed all the rituals, the Panda and the priest ask you to seek blessings of the elders/gods and then visit some Teertha. I had not much time with me to go to some teerth out of Gaya. On this the Panda and Priest asked us to visit Bodh Gaya as a Teerth and seek Lord Buddha's blessings ! We did exactly the same and that was quite satisfying.

    So, there is no iota of doubt that Buddha is considered an avataar of Vishnu by a very large section of Hindus but "Internet Hindus" are something different.

    OM
    "Om Namo Bhagvate Vaasudevaye"

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    Re: Correct to have demolished Budhdhist temples to build Hindu temples?

    Quote Originally Posted by markandeya 108 dasa View Post
    Namaste Srivija,
    Yes I think you have good approach, if I don't understand something but it's from a good source I have found its best just to put it on the shelf, not throw it away or dismiss it and it's there when needed.
    Namaste markandeya, devotee and others.

    @markandeya - this is also my approach.

    With regard to that approach, and our general discussion, here is a fascinating video. The speaker, James Mallinson, is Senior Lecturer in Sanskrit and Classical Indian Studies at the University of London. In this presentation he investigates evidence for interaction between Nath Yogis and Vajrayana Buddhists between 10th - 15th centuries. He reveals how many sites 'evolved' away from being Buddhist, yet kept clues as to their original purpose. He has also uncovered textural evidence that Hatha Yoga developed from this contact. It's a long video but worth watching if you have time.


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