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Thread: God , in His Image

  1. #1
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    God , in His Image

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~~
    Namaste,

    God created man in His own image.... Genisis 1:27

    What is this statement saying? How can this be? Is it the 'look' ? the arms , legs , of Him?
    If we consider it from this perspective ( and it would be great to hear yours) perhaps it may resonate with you.


    We have His same nature ( this is called swarupa). Just like the spark of a fire, has the same nature of the fire itself. Each individual soul ( jiva) is a spark of Brahman, this Totality, this Infinite Universal Self

    Its not saying ( to me) we look or walk like Him, our our bodies take His shape, yet His nature ( pure consciousness) is our existence. The rishi's say our bodies ( and this earth, rock, liqiuid, gas, space, leaf, Animal, vegetable or mineral) is condensed consciousness, same as they say in quantum physics. And most of everything is really space ( my favorite element, akasha) at the atomic level.

    Science even wonders how all this ( matter) stays together , cause there is so much space between atoms. This is where they talk of the various forces in physics that I am not knowledgable of, that bind this matter together. ( glueons have been called out - great name eh?)

    That said, we are miniature HIMs. "Him" is like that sound Hreem - all encompassing. Its like another word Hamsa. A name for a Swan - they give Him this name , as one of beauty; As the swan also floats on the water ( life, existence) without getting wet ( or pulled into this existence) or without the possibility of any blemish.

    When Hamsa is repeated , it turns into So-ham, as the front sound gets connected ( spills, as they say) with the back sound, and low and behold Hamsa turns into So-ham, a favorite mantra that means "I am He".

    Now, the rishi's say, we naturally say this with each breadth, when we breathe in, its 'so' and out is 'ham'. So with every breath we take, He is on or lips.

    A modern sanyas (or yogi) named Nisargadatta Maharaj , living during our time ( 80's) became enlightened by just using one mantra ,aham,
    I AM. He was just an every day householder, but with a guru that gave him this sound ( this is called Diksha). In 3 to 5 years he became an enlightened Being. NO Great Yogi or Maharaj initially, just a regular guy in india that listened to his teacher. So , its possible we too can become enlightened while living ( Called a jivanmukti).

    One of his quotes : " To know the world you forget the SELF, to know the SELF you forget the world". found in his book, I Am That.

    pranams
    Last edited by yajvan; 28 May 2007 at 10:28 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  2. #2
    Jigar Guest

    Re: God , in His Image

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    Hari Om
    ~~~~~~
    Namaste,

    God created man in His own image.... Genisis 1:27

    What is this statement saying? How can this be? Is it the 'look' ? the arms , legs , of Him?
    If we consider it from this perspective ( and it would be great to hear yours) perhaps it may resonate with you.

    Namaste Yajvan,

    I believe that the complexion of creation that we retain is considered to be of what I call the ULTIMATE FORM :

    http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/2237/manifestkx5.jpg
    http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/7892/gastronomicfemaleanatomkd1.jpg


    Maste nam,
    jigar
    Last edited by satay; 29 May 2007 at 01:53 PM. Reason: image loadtime affecting performance for mobile users

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    Re: God , in His Image

    Namaste Yajvan,

    "God created man in His own image.... Genisis 1:27"

    I am rather confused at your interpretation of this simple statement in the Bible.

    That the term image that is referred to in the Biblical statement is a pointer to the Cosmic Consciousness of the One God that is immanent in both Prakriti and Purushas seems to be rather far-retched to me. I would love to know if there are more such references in the Bible that seek to establish the advaitic unity of everything. If they are, then we can effectively quote them against the evangelism of the church!

    I think this statement cannot be extrapolated beyond these inferences:

    To get the full import, we needs must read the statement in context with the previous verse, so here are both the verses:

    (OT: Genesis 1)
    1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

    1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

    1. The 'our' in the phrase 'Let us make man in our image' signifies that God speaks to some others near Him, who are like Him. Who are these other 'gods?' Does it mean that there was no 'one God' but many? And they all made man in their image? Even assuming that God was only one and He spoke these words to a group of angels who were his audience, this can only point to a personal God, a God in the image of the man, with all the limitations of emotions--and not a Nirguna Brahman.

    2. Thus I think the term image refers only to the form that he made out of the dust, and then breathed life into that form, as this verse says:

    (OT: Genesis)
    2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

    After making man, God made him sleep, and created woman from his rib bone (OT: Genesis 2:21, 2:22).

    In Christianity animals and plants have no souls. They were created only for man and are eternally subservient to him.

    The interesting point here is that in eary Christianity, the same logic applied to women, and women were thought to have no souls! In the first Nicean Council conducted in 325 BCE, "A vote was cast to decide whether women had souls. The women won by one vote." (http://www.teachingreligion.com/gnosticism/history.html)

    Thank God, women escaped persecution by just one vote!

    3. The modern man of Kali Yuga, who is increasingly being more and more aware of the Vedic and Upanishadic concepts of Hinduism, tries to extrapolate the Christian scriptures, applying these concepts. Would he have 'discovered' such meanings if Hinduism was not around?

    As H.P. Blavatsky says, the Christian scriptures and theology are just a parody of rich pagan religious legacy that existed before its advent. Even King Constantine, the founder of the Catholic Church movement, "never converted. On his deathbed, when he was too delirious to protest, "Saint" Eusebius entered his chambers, sprinkled holy water on him, and declared him baptised." (http://www.teachingreligion.com/gnosticism/history.html)

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    Re: Other souls

    Namaste MG.

    Glad to have your participation and opinions in the forum. People like you, who know and love Hinduism as well as Christianity, can serve as a bridge between the two religions and act as a voice of dissent to the stifling authority of the tenets, specially in the area of evangelism.

    Quote Originally Posted by MysticalGypsi View Post
    Just to clarify, a lot of Christians do believe that animals have souls. The incident that you mention about voting on the souls of women, to be fair, had to be a very isolated incident, don't you think?
    1. I am glad that a large number of Christians are outgrowing the hard tenets of their religion, using independent inquiry, which is the only way to salvation.

    However, the point is, unlike in Hinduism, you have no scriptures beyond the Bible in Christianity. Hindu Smriti (Puranas, bhakti scriptures etc.) are all distinct yet based on Vedas, and a Hindu can simply choose his own path as to the scriptures, without ever getting to know the wisdom revealed in the Vedas, as Ganesh Prasad has explained in another thread. This sort of variety in teachings from gurus is unkown to Christianity, so even a correct belief such as animals do have souls or humans do have karma and reincarnation or that there are no eternal hell and heaven or that there are many paths to God, etc. do not have support in the Bible, and hence are anathema to the Church. Do you think the situation will ever change?

    2. Yes, the voting that women do have souls is 'a very isolated incident' as you put it, but is a formative one as it came from the earliest establishment of the church.

    I don't know whether the Bible mentions that women have no souls, but the very consideration seemed alarming to me, that is why I mentioned it.

    Thanks for your interaction and please do continue to post your views.

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    Re: God , in His Image

    Hari Om
    ~~~~~
    Quote Originally Posted by saidevo View Post
    Namaste Yajvan,

    "God created man in His own image.... Genisis 1:27"

    I am rather confused at your interpretation of this simple statement in the Bible.

    That the term image that is referred to in the Biblical statement is a pointer to the Cosmic Consciousness of the One God that is immanent in both Prakriti and Purushas seems to be rather far-retched to me.
    Namste saidevo,
    I respect your position here... in this case it is my reading and intuition as my reference point. I am not debating it's 'rightness or wrongness' of the statement but rejoicing that this statement resonates with the Truth I possess today.

    The simplest statements, I have found are the most profound. When I think and 'feel' of His ( or Her) image I do not gravitate to a human condition of size or shape.

    My point is we are condensed consciousness - so say the wise, so says Vasistha as my guide here. When I percieve Ishvara, I percieve Him as pure - and nothing is as pure, as unbounded and without blemish as consciousness.
    If I am missing a point , please round out my undersanding so I may go deeper into this matter... Why do I care to do this? To Adore the ONE, the sadhu desires to know each and every conciveable part of the Adored (Ishvara), Brahman, Paramatma - please add to my adoration understanding.

    It is pointed out in the Srimad Bhagavatam that the fullness of the SELF is unfolded ( blossoms) as the realization of Brahman, Paramatma and Bhagavan. So, as one goes along the way one see's every thing from this point of view... for me, when I read 'we are created in His Image' this is where my understanding rests.

    At the end of the day, ultimately, all religions come from the same tree.
    And at the core of that tree is pure consciousness, yet many like to adore the tree as the branch, the flower, the stem, the bark. I adore the tree and it's sap, pure consciousness, Brahman.

    pranams, and thank you for taking the time to consider the post and responding.
    Last edited by yajvan; 29 May 2007 at 08:48 PM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva

    _

  6. #6
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    Re: Other souls

    Quote Originally Posted by MysticalGypsi View Post
    Just to clarify, a lot of Christians do believe that animals have souls.

    Namaste,
    Which sects in particular? I am not questioning your statement as my wife is a catholic christian and she does believe in our dog having a soul, though I think that the source of her changed belief in that has been influenced by me and not by the bible.

    Where does it say in the bible that animals have souls? If animals have souls then are they part of the same spirit that made adam and eve?

    I am just curious on your views on this.

    The incident that you mention about voting on the souls of women, to be fair, had to be a very isolated incident, don't you think?
    A lot interesting things happened at the Nicean council, jesus' divinity was voted also among other things. I also learnt from some christians on the internet that 'women' are inefrior according to the church because they are made from the 'rib' of man. So therefore, as they are a part of 'man' they can never be equal to the man.
    satay

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    Re: Other souls

    Quote Originally Posted by MysticalGypsi View Post

    Really, Christians are such a varied lot, I don't know how to even lump them together besides the very basic tenents. I would not say most Christians believe in evangelism.
    With all due respect, I would have to disagree with the statement. It is a christian's duty to spread the religion and save souls. In fact, as soon as you accept jesus as your only saviour, you automatically and immediately get a license to 'evangelise' as you must save as many souls as possible.

    In India, you are seeing sort of a skewed number because that is why they go there. Most American Christians believe in minding your own business. Americans hate people telling them what to do you know. I mean, I have no percentages, but don't most humans hate being evangelized to? Most Christians globally are not going door to door.
    Because most americans believe in minding their own business and they don't want to be bothered, this is why the religion of christianity is being exported overseas and especially into India. It is believed by the southern baptist sect that India is ruled by the satan and all hindus must be saved and satan defeated.

    Most christians are not only going door to door in India but also causing political problems and pressure the gov't to get special rights etc.

    I encourage you to get the facts on India and the political nature of 'evangelism' by christians in India. They might not be spreading the message of jesus and nirotu has acknowledged this in the past as well but facts remain facts no matter what we think or say.

    Peace be with you.
    Last edited by satay; 29 May 2007 at 04:03 PM.
    satay

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    Re: God , in His Image

    Quote Originally Posted by yajvan View Post
    Hari Om
    ~~~~~


    Namste saidevo,
    I respect your position here... in this case it is my reading and intuition as my reference point. I am not debating it's 'rightness or wrongness' of the statement but rejoicing that this statement resonates with the Truth I possess today.

    The simplest statements, I have found are the most profound. When I think and 'feel' of His ( or Her) image I do not gravitate to a human condition of size or shape.

    My point is we are condensed consciousness - so say the wise, so says Vasistha as my guide here. When I percieve Ishvara, I percieve Him as pure - and nothing is as pure, as unbounded and without blemish as consciousness.
    If I am missing a point , please round out my undersanding so I may go deeper into this matter... Why do I care to do this? To Adore the ONE, the sadhu desires to know each and every conciveable part of the Adored (Ishvara), Brahman, Paramatma - please add to my adoration understanding.

    It is pointed out in the Srimad Bhagavatam that the fullness of the SELF is unfolded ( blossoms) as the realization of Brahman, Paramatma and Bhagavan. So, as one goes along the way one see's every thing from this point of view... for me, when I read 'we are created in His Image' this is where my undersanding rests.

    At the end of the day, ultimately, all religions come from the same tree.
    And at the core of that tree is pure consciousness, yet many like to adore the tree as the branch, the flower, the stem, the bark. I adore the tree and it's sap, pure consciousness, Brahman.

    pranams, and thank you for taking the time to consider the post and responding.
    Namaste Yajvan,

    This is a beautiful Dharmic interpretation of a verse from the bible, however, we must acknowledge that the christian understanding of the verse is completely different. There is no 'unity' with GOD.

    Separation of spirit and GOD (or duality) remains for eternity even in heaven.
    satay

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    Re: God , in His Image

    Namaste All,

    Without so much as touching the other issues here, I thought I would add a little to the issue of animal souls according to Catholic doctrine. Per my understanding, Catholic doctrine says that animals do have souls, as God had breathed life into all creatures, humans and animals. However, animal souls are "different" than human souls. Whereas human souls are everlasting, the animal souls cease to exist upon their death. It was the previous Pope, John Paul II, who had declared that animals too have souls back in 1990. I am not certain about the issue of animal souls in any other branch of Christianity.

    OM Shanti,
    A.



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    Re: God , in His Image

    I think that the vedas say that human souls are made of the same stuff as brahman, but I don't think is says that they are brahman. Only form the same material.

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