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Thread: Lots of questions???

  1. #11
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    September 2006
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    Re: Lots of questions???

    hariḥ oṁ

    I wrote the following in post 7 above:

    प्रचयं रूपातीतं च सम्यक् तुर्यमुदाहृतं।
    महाप्रचयमिच्चन्ति तुर्यातीतं विचक्षणाः ॥३८
    pracayaṁ rūpātītaṁ ca samyak turyamudāhṛtaṁ|
    mahāpracayamicchanti turyātītaṁ vicakṣaṇāḥ ||38

    this says,
    the fourth (turyam) is said to be (udāhṛtam) truly a mass - (pracayam) and (ca) rūpātītam -the state beyond deep sleep (rūpá-atītam);
    the wise (vicakṣaṇāḥ) wish (icchanti) this great mass / fullness, totality - (mahāpracayam) also known as turyātīta - (beyond the fourth or turya + atītam) ||38

    Now, how to understand this ? How can anything be beyond turya?

    I will take it up in the next post, and will stand on the explanation of svāmī lakṣman-jū for my support .
    Svāmī lakṣman-jū informs us that this turyātīta - (beyond the fourth or turya + atītam) is none other than the fullness of Self. It is the Supreme avasthā (to abide in, absorbed in). Yet here is the pickle :

    There are two names given to this avasthā. One is given by worldly people and the other by the jñānī-s ( the realized one’s who live this avasthā on a daily basis). The worldly know little about this avasthā and hence call it turyātīta. The jñānī call it mahāpracaya as stated in the 38th verse mentioned above ( taken from the mālinīvijayottara-tantra). It is this mass of fullness of supreme totality. If it is totality there can be nothing outside of it, that is why it is whole, full, supreme ( as nothing can surpass it).

    The average practitioner of yoga ( union) does not know (experience) this condition. Yet somehow they have come to think of it as satatoditam – that which has no break or pause. It is there in samādhi1 , it is there when samādhi is absent. If it is without break or pause it is constantly present... during wake-dream-sleep & and yes turīya. Yet just like the coin analogy (kārṣāpaṇa , post 8 above) we are talking of wholeness, not discrete/fractured experiences of wake-dream-sleep-turīya. Within this fullness, totality - (mahāpracayam) everything exists; nothing can be outside of it ( even you!).

    You see, the jñānī bathes in it2 every moment of the day forever. There is no break or pause (satatoditam). The practitioner of yoga ( a sādhu perhaps) experiences this mahāpracayam during his/her practice. Perhaps just on the entry or exit of it, but not while bathed in it. to him/her it is an ~experience~ and not the fabric of all that is every moment of the day, like the jñānī.

    According to the wise, this is the Reality. It is not something one goes and gets, acquires as if an object. You see, you cannot make brahman an object of knowing. You may talk about it, but that is not it; It is unspeakable . This is nicely laid out in the kena upaniṣad3. I will leave the striver-of-knowledge to pursue this.

    iti śivaṁ

    1. samādhi - samā+ dhi - dhi is to delight, to nourish. dhī (long i) is to perceive, think, reflect. The feminine use of dhī is in fact the intellect. It is to nourish (dhi) evenly, same-ness ( sama). When put together it is samādhi and is wholeness, fullness, even-ness without break or pause.

    2. this is (viśeṣo'yam) one distinction – see this HDFpost for more:

    3. kena upaniṣad ( some write kenopaniṣat) – a list of the core 10 upaniṣad-s are listed and here :
    Last edited by yajvan; 02 January 2018 at 10:51 AM.
    यतस्त्वं शिवसमोऽसि
    yatastvaṁ śivasamo'si
    because you are identical with śiva


  2. #12

    Re: Lots of questions???


    All glories the jnani you mention seated in the Absolute.

    I tend to see the saints have a difference in view and have nothing to prove but only to raise the ones around with humility and compassion., as Sri Krsna says Gita 6.32

    atmaupamyena sarvatra
    samam pasyati yo 'rjuna
    sukham va yadi va duhkham
    sa yogi paramo matah

    I see shastra and the sadhu teaching in two ways, one is in the ascension, to remove avidya and reform and heal society and mankinds burden of suffering. The second is the descent , where by divine acts due to be fully realized, he works to remove avdiya and reform and heal society and mankinds burden of suffering.

    Jai Guru Datta

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