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Thread: Out of various elements of our existence, how is intellect increasing ?

  1. #21
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    Re: Out of various elements of our existence, how is intellect increasing ?

    Om

    Namaste

    As conciousness is indivisible, I hope you are referring to reflected conciousness.

    Also when we say Manas is mind and it is different from other characteristics, either there is a heirarchy or need to find a way to connect all of these for the smooth transition from one body to another.

    Love and best wishes
    Love and best wishes:hug:

  2. #22

    Re: Out of various elements of our existence, how is intellect increasing ?

    continuing...

    "As consciousness is indivisible", actually everything is indivisible, but the illusion in Prakruthi makes them behave as an individual entity... "I hope you are referring to reflected conciousness" please let me know what is "reflected consciousness"...

    "Also when we say Manas is mind and it is different from other characteristics, either there is a heirarchy or need to find a way to connect all of these for the smooth transition from one body to another." yes everything is very well connected..the components under the influence of time are very well connected...when we get to the part where we will discuss the actual origin of these components inside Prakruthi, the connectivity can be established.

    [Srimad Bhagavatam - Sankhya - 3.26.15]...we revisit this verse in depth now...

    etāvān eva saṅkhyāto
     brahmaṇaḥ sa-guṇasya ha
    sanniveśo mayā prokto
     yaḥ kālaḥ pañca-viṁśakaḥ


    Here Sri Purushottama says "these enumerations put together is Bramha as Sa-Gunasya"...such a beautiful verse...questions arise
    - If everything is ParaBramha alone..there is nothing else other than Him, then what are these 24 components?
    The answer will be, yes everything is ParaBramha alone...nothing else exists...this is also Bramha..but
    - If this is also Bramha then does it mean there is no differentiation between these components and the Supreme most?
    The answer is, yes there definitely is a difference...this is part of Bramha where the "Gunas" are visible, there is a reality called Bramha without Gunas visible
    - If Gunas are visible as part of Bramha does it mean Bramha has Gunas too?
    The answer is beautifully mentioned in Bhagavad Gita 7.12

    ye chaiva saatvika bhaava rajasas tamasas cha ye
    matta eveti taan viddhi na tva aham teshu te mayi

    know that all these "Bhaava"[we will come to this term later...as of now lets take it as features or characteristics] of saatvika rajasa taamas gunas are
    originated from Me...I am not under them however they are under Me...

    - So it means in reality ParaBramha is "Nirguni" One without Gunas?
    The answer is definitely yes
    - Then who or what is "Sa-guna Bramha"?
    The answer is this is the reason why this entire "shrushti" or creation of Prakruthi is called "Maaya"...there exists with ParaBramha an illusion where the Gunas are distinctly visible..again back to the white light example...without the prism its not possible to to see the seven distinct colors present in white light...so does it mean white light has these colors inside..definitely yes...does it mean the prism is the one which is creating the distinction of colors..again the answer is yes...so without prism the white light stays as white light? of course yes...then to see the distinction one has to go thru the prism? yes...beyond the prism only white light exists..yes...similarly the Sa-guna Bramha can be perceived only inside the Prakruthi...Nirguna Bramha is the reality present both in and beyond the Prakruthi...

    so does it mean all this illusion which we are experiencing now is Sa-guna Bramha? food for thought...we will slowly get answer to that too

    The arrangement in which all of these 24 elements come into existence is with that 25th element called "Kaalah" or Time....Time again is Paramathma...Time is that Supreme Infinite Energy which creates the term "next"...Time is that component without which the term "action" cannot be defined...lets take one more example here
    take the movie or video...the motion picture....when you check what is on the reel...its nothing but a series of still photographs...every single photograph taken at different points of time...all these photographs when put in a series, one after the other forms a reel...now until unless these photos come under the influence of Time and are viewed one after other[at some particular rate], they continue to remain still photographs....an action is similar to a movie...every step is actually a static snapshot...when under the influence of Time the snapshots continue in a particular sequence, an action can be performed...we will use this example in further discussion to see how Time influences the elements of Pradhana to create this Maaya called Prakruthi...

  3. #23

    Re: Out of various elements of our existence, how is intellect increasing ?

    continuing further...

    [Srimad Bhagavatam - Sankhya - 3.26.18]

    antaḥ puruṣa-rūpeṇa
     kāla-rūpeṇa yo bahiḥ
    samanvety eṣa sattvānāṁ
     bhagavān ātma-māyayā

    Now we start understanding what and how things are formed of which we are part of...

    By His Divine Maaya[the energy which causes this great illusion..this projection..this universe called Prakruthi...] Bhagavan...He the Supremost,

    amongst every "entity that exists inside the Prakruthi", He internally is present as "Purusha" and externally He is present as "Kaala"...

    now this is such an important point which will clarify many questions...

    - what are those entities?
    Everything that is derived inside the Prakruthi using the materials available...
    - who is Purusha then?
    The Supreme most is embedded inside the entities in the form of Purusha
    - how does Time influence then
    The Supreme most , from outside, influences the entities which have Purusha embedded inside them
    - So Paramathma is both inside and outside the materialistic entities which are formed inside Prakruthi?
    Yes, as Purusha inside and as Kaala outside
    - Does it mean its only the materialistic entity that is not Paramathma?
    The materialistic entity is a projection inside Paramathma..Purusha and Kaala are Paramathma
    - Does it mean the materialistic entities inside Prakruthi are influenced by Time from outside and continue to exists as Purusha is inside them?
    Yes, every materialistic entity, with Purusha embedded internally, is under the influence of Time externally

    The divine Maaya of Paramathma is such that He who is Avyakta, creates an illusion, a field or a framework where everything looks "distinguishable" ..This framework is inside Him, is under His influence, however He is not under them...again however He is also inside the framework and inside every entity in the framework and also influences every entity inside the framework from outside the entity, being present inside the framework...

    after all this, still the entities, under the influence of Maaya conclude that there is I, me and mine ...

    we will get to the core of creation in next post...

  4. #24
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    Re: Out of various elements of our existence, how is intellect increasing ?

    On

    Namaste.

    The manifestation and un manifestation happen at all layer. At gross layer it is "All out of energy and run by energy".
    The characteristics of all gross elements are in the basic energy itself however unmanifested.

    As we move down to the substratum, it exists in manifested form right through subtle and gross layers. Like at gross layer it is combination of all 3 layers. These are the lower 7 lokas.
    The subtle layer has subtle and consciousness layer. These belong to upper 7 lokas.
    Time and space start from the subtle layer.

    Referring to my statement on reflected conciousness, it taken as OC and RC. Original consciousness and Reflected conciousness. Analogy - Sunlight is say OC. Present everywhere and continuous. Pieces of mirrors reflecting this light to a dark room. This reflected light is like RC. Room is the body. The reflected light gets distorted by the extent of dust, colour or quality of mirror. The mirror represents the mind.

    Love and best wishes
    Love and best wishes:hug:

  5. #25

    Re: Out of various elements of our existence, how is intellect increasing ?

    continuing...

    Thanks for the explanation...
    "The reflected light gets distorted by the extent of dust, colour or quality of mirror. " That is a very interesting way to understand the chitta...we have something peculiar about Chitta which will actually support your analysis..we will come to that shortly...

    [Srimad Bhagavatam - Sankhya - 3.26.19]

    daivāt kṣubhita-dharmiṇyāṁ
     svasyāṁ yonau paraḥ pumān
    ādhatta vīryaṁ sāsūta
     mahat-tattvaṁ hiraṇmayam


    Sri Kapila Maharshi says...There has to be an object or some initiator which starts the process of creation....for that reason, Paramathma, within His own Yoni[the place where a seed can be sowed], impregnates the veeryam or the seed which is the root cause of this materialistic universe....and by His divine power He creates a reaction which follows a protoco[dharminyam]l to create this enormous principle[Mahat-tattva] called "hiranmayam" or the universe...please note that an external seed is impregnated and reactions occur as the seed enters the yoni to create this universe and all of its components...

    From this point onward, we are entering Prakruthi...we are under the influence of Time...we are under the illusion ...lets understand the most important term one needs to comprehend which will lead to mukthi...the term which is the opposite of "Avyakta"..that term or the concept of having an individual identity...that which draws a boundary...that which defines an entity...till now everything was like colors in white light....no distinct individuality...now the principle which introduces the concept of individual identity takes birth inside Prakruthi...

    [Srimad Bhagavatam - Sankhya - 3.26.23]

    mahat-tattvād vikurvāṇād
     bhagavad-vīrya-sambhavāt
    kriyā-śaktir ahaṅkāras
     tri-vidhaḥ samapadyata

    Sri Paramathma says....The "Mahat Tattva"..the universe which has now "manifested" itself under the influence of that infinite energy called Time, undergoes a lot of changes[vikurvaanaad]...every reaction starts now...the principles are going to manifest into entities inside the cosmos...and please note that all of this is not happening by chance...its not happening by itself...it simple cannot happen by itself[as the atheist modern day scientists claim]..the complexities of universe are well defined, controlled and definitely monitored ....everything is managed perfectly..its an orchestra thats being played out beautifully...under the infinite energy of ParaBramha ...[Bhagavad virya sambhavaat]
    this entire universe or the mahat tattva, under the influence of the infinite energy of ParaBramha, creates "individual identity for three types of entities which are classified by the powers to perform a particular kind of action"

    please note this is the origin of the term "ahankaara"...an individual entity which gets the authority to perform action[aham -kaara] is being defined based on the power to perform a particular kind of action[kriya-shakthi]...and three such entities which have different "kriya-shkathi" become the first ones to be identified as individual [aham] which take the authority to perform action

    Hence the basic definition of "I" and "I can" is the fundamental block of the three forces which can perform a particular kind of action...and everything derived and under the influence of these forces will always inherit the "ahamkaara"...this is the prime reason why Sri Vaasudeva says beautifully in Bhagavad Gita...one should become "Nirguni" or should be free from the influence of these three forces and only then can the state of indivisibility be realized...
    Last edited by SanathanaDharma; 19 March 2018 at 02:57 AM.

  6. #26
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    Re: Out of various elements of our existence, how is intellect increasing ?

    On

    Namaste

    Though I come from a scientific background and I see the scripture knowledge from the view of science behind life and creation, I also feel that people with different background will try to grasp the same in different ways. A doctor or an engineer or a lawyer will define a complex event in different ways and all of them describing the same TRUTH, in their ways.

    I see this as a self sustained system where the manifestation happen at each layer. However the mechanism and process of manifestation have been defined differently for the consumption of differently abled minds.
    One of the ways is that the creation is out of the cumulative minds.

    Love and best wishes
    Love and best wishes:hug:

  7. #27

    Re: Out of various elements of our existence, how is intellect increasing ?

    very true...a lot of people understand Truth at a lot of levels in different ways...science, as a matter of fact, supports analysis, questioning and rationally arriving at a conclusion only after extensive result based research...however when a scientist, with modern science still in its toddler stage, concludes that there exists no Supreme power and all of this is happening by itself, it not only becomes unscientific and irrational, but shows the impact of three gunas on yet another human being

    continuing further...

    [Srimad Bhagavatam - Sankhya - 3.26.24]

    vaikārikas taijasaś ca
     tāmasaś ca yato bhavaḥ
    manasaś cendriyāṇāṁ ca
     bhūtānāṁ mahatām api


    Sri Parameshwara says, after undergoing the transformation, based on the kriya-shakthi, the three types of ahankaras are now named as
    - Vaikaarika or also known as Saatvika
    - Taijasa or also known as Raajasa
    - Taamasa

    and now we discuss the most important part...the origin of those components which were defined in Pradhana, manifest into existence, inside Prakruthi
    From the three "ahankaras" which have specific "kriya-shakti" that makes them classify as saatvika,raajasika and taamasa, the mind, the indriyas and the maha bhuta and everything else is derived...

    so the prime point before we go to the individual entity is that, the mind, indriyas and the maha bhuta which includes everything materialistic inside this universe, takes the "lakshana" or the "characteristics" from the combination of these gunas...

    to understand better, lets take the way all the possible available colors can be derived with only combination of different values of three major colors Red, Green, Blue
    the combination of the RGB values gives rise to the numerous colors that one can see...the combinations of Red, Green and Blue at different levels give rise to different colors..similarly the three gunas are the source of everything inside this universe...the value and combination defines the characteristic of every element we perceive here


  8. #28
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    Re: Out of various elements of our existence, how is intellect increasing ?

    Om

    Namaste

    Absolutely right.

    I would also like to have some understanding on the heirarchy.

    As we deal with most of the elements through our mind. Most of the rest is a backend process - some perceivable and some not.

    Love and best wishes
    Love and best wishes:hug:

  9. #29

    Re: Out of various elements of our existence, how is intellect increasing ?

    "I would also like to have some understanding on the hierarchy." If you are referring to the different levels to understand the reality, Sri Krishna in Bhagavat Gita gives a beautiful analysis...we can get to that once this explanation is complete...

    continuing...

    [Srimad Bhagavatam - Sankhya - 3.26.26]

    kartṛtvaṁ karaṇatvaṁ ca
     kāryatvaṁ ceti lakṣaṇam
    śānta-ghora-vimūḍhatvam
     iti vā syād ahaṅkṛteḥ


    Sri Vaasudeva starts by describing the feature set of "aham" which is the based on "kriya-shakti"
    - kartrtvam : the fundamental concept of "being the performer of an action"
    - karanatvam : the fundamental concept of "being the instrument that performs an action"
    - kaaryatvam : the fundamental concept of "the action itself"


    please note all the three concepts are directly related to "action", which by definition exists only because there is a factor called Time which creates the term action...
    the three aham are hence inherently bound by time as their feature set is defined with action as a base...

    these three aham have the prime "lakshana" or characteristic which defines their "kriya shakthi"

    the force or guna which can be identified[aham] based on the power to perform[kriya-shakti] the action of what is defined as "serene equilibrium[shaanta]"
    the force or guna which can be identified[aham] based on the power to perform[kriya-shakti] the action of what is defined as "fierce or reactive [ghora] "
    the force or guna which can be identified[aham] based on the power to perform[kriya-shakti] the action of what is defined as "staying idle or ignorant [vimudha]"

    [Srimad Bhagavatam - Sankhya - 3.26.27]

    vaikārikād vikurvāṇān
     manas-tattvam ajāyata
    yat-saṅkalpa-vikalpābhyāṁ
     vartate kāma-sambhavaḥ


    Now we dig deep into every single element...lets start with the great "Manah or mind"...notice the beatiful way in which everything will be designed now..the perfect systematic design and description is a treat for anyone who is thirsty of real knowledge...

    vaikaarikaad...from the first aham whose kriya-shakti defines actions that exhibits serenity and equilibrium, that pure saatvika guna when under the great influence of Paramathma as Time undergoes transformation , the principle[tattva] of Mind[Manah] is born...

    so here we will get to unravel the mysteries of ourselves ......
    Mind takes birth from the pure saatvika guna
    Mind is derived from that aham whose prime characteristic is the action of equilibrium
    Mind is derived from a Guna and hence, under the influence of maaya, inside Prakruthi, Mind has an identity of its own...
    Even for a person who does not have raajasika and taamasa guna, if one is completely having only saatvika, still there will be an aham as in mind as it has taken birth from an aham that has a particular kriya shakthi...that term "i am" will still persist...


    now lets dig deeper..lets see the prime meta-features of mind
    - sankalpa - the process where the mind confirms and describes the premise for the next set of actions or very roughly "planning the action"
    - vikalpa - the process where the mind decides on a choice or chooses an option

    at every given point of time in this Prakruthi, our Mind is that entity which constantly deals with the two process of "sankalpa" and "vikalpa"...there are always choices and the mind always decides the plan of action at every point...this behavior of Mind is the the reason why "desire" takes birth...

    lets take a very simple example....a new born child....the main things it does is cry, drink milk and sleep...here the mind of that child,
    - keeps checking the two options[vikalpa] 'if hungry or not'
    - when hunger is felt[an option"hungry" is chosen from vikalpa], the mind makes a "sankalpa" to cry till something is fed and it executes that sankalpa
    - again the mind keeps checking the two options [vikalpa]"still hungry or not"
    - when the stomach is full, hunger is no longer felt [an option"not hungry" is chosen from vikalpa], the mind makes "sankapla" to stop drinking the milk...

    this process slowly grows and gives rise to desire as the kid grows, it starts to make sankalpa and decide from vikalpa based on the kaama or desire....we will continue this explanation in next post...

  10. #30
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    Re: Out of various elements of our existence, how is intellect increasing ?

    Om

    Namaste

    Intricacies of mind's features are interesting.

    When there is no mind, the "I" is not there but the other gunas might be there in satvik form.

    Now the formation of mind - is it a combination of the gunas and ... ?

    Love and best wishes
    Love and best wishes:hug:

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